Indecisive: Coin frame, capsule, foam

[Prieure de Sion]

Hello and have a nice sunny Sunday!

I want to protect my coins a bit, but I haven't found anything yet that really convinced me. We are mainly talking about coins (denarii) with a diameter of around 20mm and my tetradrachms with a diameter of around 30mm. I have tried two things so far. Unsuccessfully.

1. Self-adhesive Coin Holders
https://www.leuchtturm.de/muenzraehmchen-matrix-weiss-selbstklebend.html 

In itself, not a bad thing. Especially since you can easily write on the back. But there are problems here that bother me. If I take a small diameter - the coin sits firmly in the middle - but the foil stretches like a pressed sausage in too small foil or leggings of the size Small that I put on with 95kg. If I take a large diameter - the foil does not stretch so much on the coin - but the coin constantly slips to the edge in the middle. The trick is to find a special diameter for each coin. Then I have a stock of all sizes at home. No.

2. Coin capsules
https://www.leuchtturm.de/muenzkapseln-grips.html

Perfect for matching exactly round modern coins. But as I find - often less suitable for antique coins. Sometimes they are 17mm, sometimes 18mm, sometimes 21mm - sometimes less round, sometimes oval. It's the same here - they just don't fit exactly. The result is that when I hold them in my hand - clack clack clack - they clack back and forth in the capsule. I'm a perfectionist - it upsets me.

 

Now I would like to try the capsules with foam inside. And not with the perfectly round cut-out foam, but the foam that you can cut together yourself.
Like this one: https://www.leuchtturm.de/muenzkapseln-quadrum-ohne-ausstanzung-10er-pack.html 

So now my real question. Does anyone use these capsules with foam without a cut-out - that is, the ones you have to cut yourself?

What is the best way to cut out the middle? If I take some tetradrachms - they are oval, there are notches, etc. - I don't know. How do you draw the hole? Do you put the coin on it and then trace the outline? Scalpel? How do you do that practically? 

 

Thank you for your experience.

[Al Kowsky]

8 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

Hello and have a nice sunny Sunday!

I want to protect my coins a bit, but I haven't found anything yet that really convinced me. We are mainly talking about coins (denarii) with a diameter of around 20mm and my tetradrachms with a diameter of around 30mm. I have tried two things so far. Unsuccessfully.

1. Self-adhesive Coin Holders
https://www.leuchtturm.de/muenzraehmchen-matrix-weiss-selbstklebend.html 

In itself, not a bad thing. Especially since you can easily write on the back. But there are problems here that bother me. If I take a small diameter - the coin sits firmly in the middle - but the foil stretches like a pressed sausage in too small foil or leggings of the size Small that I put on with 95kg. If I take a large diameter - the foil does not stretch so much on the coin - but the coin constantly slips to the edge in the middle. The trick is to find a special diameter for each coin. Then I have a stock of all sizes at home. No.

2. Coin capsules
https://www.leuchtturm.de/muenzkapseln-grips.html

Perfect for matching exactly round modern coins. But as I find - often less suitable for antique coins. Sometimes they are 17mm, sometimes 18mm, sometimes 21mm - sometimes less round, sometimes oval. It's the same here - they just don't fit exactly. The result is that when I hold them in my hand - clack clack clack - they clack back and forth in the capsule. I'm a perfectionist - it upsets me.

 

Now I would like to try the capsules with foam inside. And not with the perfectly round cut-out foam, but the foam that you can cut together yourself.
Like this one: https://www.leuchtturm.de/muenzkapseln-quadrum-ohne-ausstanzung-10er-pack.html 

So now my real question. Does anyone use these capsules with foam without a cut-out - that is, the ones you have to cut yourself?

What is the best way to cut out the middle? If I take some tetradrachms - they are oval, there are notches, etc. - I don't know. How do you draw the hole? Do you put the coin on it and then trace the outline? Scalpel? How do you do that practically? 

 

Thank you for your experience.

P. de Sion, You're a perfectionist & may be impossible to satisfy 😏. Have you considered using holders like the ones Roma uses on their special coins, or just plain 2 X 2 safe-flips 🤔?

[shanxi]

31 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

Now I would like to try the capsules with foam inside

The filling height of only 3.3 mm might become a problem with the bigger coins. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by shanxi

[Prieure de Sion]

16 minutes ago, Al Kowsky said:

P. de Sion, You're a perfectionist & may be impossible to satisfy 😏. Have you considered using holders like the ones Roma uses on their special coins, or just plain 2 X 2 safe-flips 🤔?

I have never seen the Roma things. I always get the coins from Roma in a jewellery box. 

No, I would like to try these exactly:
https://www.leuchtturm.de/muenzkapseln-quadrum-ohne-ausstanzung-10er-pack.html

The question is. What is the most practical way to cut out the foam? Since I don't have a standard round template for antique coins.

 

PS: Perfectionism. No - I just don't like it when the coins hang crooked in the foil in the self-adhesive coin frames afterwards. And with the round capsules, I don't like it when they "fly" back and forth as well.

[Qcumbor]

For your purpose I guess Quadrum is the answer

Q

[Prieure de Sion]

1 minute ago, Qcumbor said:

For your purpose I guess Quadrum is the answer

 

I can imagine that too. As written - the only question is - how practicable is it to cut it out yourself?

[John Conduitt]

The uncut foam inserts are tricky. The photo of the person cutting with scissors should show them later bending and hacking at the insert until it looks a mess. Then they’d rip the whole thing up and chuck it in the bin. The foam doesn’t cut easily but marks easily.

You might do a satisfactory job using a scalpel if you have craft skills. I use these blank inserts now just for coins smaller than 14mm, which is the smallest precut size. (It might now be 16mm as they annoyingly keep discontinuing sizes). I use a punch/round hole cutter to get a decent hole.

For non-round coins I just use a tighter fit hole - there is a little play in the edges and it makes the gaps smaller. Still, I have a lot of gaps around coins but I don’t mind that.

Edited July 3, 2022 by John Conduitt

[Prieure de Sion]

4 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

The uncut foam inserts are tricky. The photo of the person cutting with scissors should show them later bending and hacking at the insert until it looks a mess. Then they’d rip the whole thing up and chuck it in the bin. The foam doesn’t cut easily but marks easily.

You might do a satisfactory job using a scalpel if you have craft skills. I use these now just for coins smaller than 14mm, which is the smallest precut size. I use a punch/round hole cutter to get a decent hole.

For non-round coins I just use a tighter fit hole - there is a little play in the edges and it makes the gaps smaller. Still, I have a lot of gaps around coins but I don’t mind that.

Ah thank you for the informative experience report! I can do something with it. Phew... I almost thought it was a bit tricky. 

I had also considered a scalpel. Put the coin on top and then cut with the scalpel. But then I'm afraid that I'll damage or scratch the edge. 

Ok. Then I'll have to think about it some more.
 

[John Conduitt]

Let me know if you find anything better!

[Prieure de Sion]

22 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

Let me know if you find anything better!

https://cdn03.plentymarkets.com/ioseuwg7moqp/item/images/23388/full/Flashforge-Adventurer-3-Adventurer3-23388.png

Oh I already know something - with such a 3D printer you could make an inlay suitable for every coin. But I'm afraid the cost/benefit ratio might not be so ideal... 😄 

[AncientJoe]

Lighthouse Quickslab are probably your best bet (they're what I use). You'll just need to find ones with holes that match the sizes of your coins - they come in a wide range of sizes. They look like slabbed coins but can be opened at will and the neoprene prevents the coin from moving around at all.

[John Conduitt]

29 minutes ago, AncientJoe said:

Lighthouse Quickslab are probably your best bet (they're what I use). You'll just need to find ones with holes that match the sizes of your coins - they come in a wide range of sizes. They look like slabbed coins but can be opened at will and the neoprene prevents the coin from moving around at all.

These are the same material as the Quadrums. So I think they have the same problems - (1) they're round, so don't fit non-round coins very well (although you can buy the tighter diameter for coins that are a little off-round and it looks fine); (2) the smallest is 14mm, not much good for the large number of hammered/ancient coins below 14mm; and (3) the depth of the plastic means you can't use them for very thick coins at all.

1 and 2 might be solvable with the blank inserts, so you can custom make your own, but it would be incredibly hard to cut a precisely-shaped hole that looks good with the coin in it. The best I can manage is using a round punch to solve (2).

Having said that, they are better than anything else I've seen so far.

Edited July 3, 2022 by John Conduitt

[John Conduitt]

50 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

https://cdn03.plentymarkets.com/ioseuwg7moqp/item/images/23388/full/Flashforge-Adventurer-3-Adventurer3-23388.png

Oh I already know something - with such a 3D printer you could make an inlay suitable for every coin. But I'm afraid the cost/benefit ratio might not be so ideal... 😄 

For those of us with OCD, it's worth every denarius 😂

Edited July 3, 2022 by John Conduitt

[Prieure de Sion]

39 minutes ago, AncientJoe said:

Lighthouse Quickslab are probably your best bet (they're what I use). You'll just need to find ones with holes that match the sizes of your coins - they come in a wide range of sizes. They look like slabbed coins but can be opened at will and the neoprene prevents the coin from moving around at all.

 

Try to find the error... 😜😂😂

[Dwarf]

I work with magnet holders by trade center wagner

https://www.t-c-w.de/kategorie/13-acryl-magnet-dosen

They look stylish, can be accustomed to thicker coins, inlays any size you wish (laser-cutted)
Problem: You have to order wholesale quantities

[FrizzyAntoine]

3 hours ago, Prieure de Sion said:

The question is. What is the most practical way to cut out the foam? Since I don't have a standard round template for antique coins.

I can wholeheartedly recommend quadrums, They work perfect for anything upto a drachm/denarius in size, and sometimes a stater/didrachm if it's low relief, tho I usually keep those in a separate abafil personally.

I buy the capsules with blank inserts, so there's no preset cutout of any size. I then open it up, place the coin onto the insert in the position I plan to display it within the quadrum. Then I use a 0.5mm mechanical pencil to punch holes into the foam around the outline of the coin. I'm quite careful with the pencil, but even so the graphite is very soft and chemically inert and removes easily so no worries if you do touch the edge by accident. At that point I use a pair of small crafting scissors to punch into the foam somewhere along the outline, and cut out the remainder of the outline from that point, so that I don't have to cut from the edge of the foam inwards and thereby reduce the regidity of the foam. At that point it's easy, just press the coin into the custom cutout and it's sitting happy in the capsule.

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by FrizzyAntoine

[Prieure de Sion]

1 hour ago, Dwarf said:

They look stylish, can be accustomed to thicker coins, inlays any size you wish (laser-cutted)
Problem: You have to order wholesale quantities

Thanks for the suggestion anyway - I'll look at it.

56 minutes ago, FrizzyAntoine said:

I can wholeheartedly recommend quadrums, They work perfect for anything upto a drachm/denarius in size, and sometimes a stater/didrachm if it's low relief, tho I usually keep those in a separate abafil personally.

I buy the capsules with blank inserts, so there's no preset cutout of any size. I then open it up, place the coin onto the insert in the position I plan to display it within the quadrum. Then I use a 0.5mm mechanical pencil to punch holes into the foam around the outline of the coin. I'm quite careful with the pencil, but even so the graphite is very soft and chemically inert and removes easily so no worries if you do touch the edge by accident. At that point I use a pair of small crafting scissors to punch into the foam somewhere along the outline, and cut out the remainder of the outline from that point, so that I don't have to cut from the edge of the foam inwards and thereby reduce the regidity of the foam. At that point it's easy, just press the coin into the custom cutout and it's sitting happy in the capsule.

That's great to read and see a report from the field! Thank you very much for this. I'll just order a capsule with foam and try it out like you did! And then I'll see if I'm talented enough. Thank you!

[AncientJoe]

2 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

These are the same material as the Quadrums. So I think they have the same problems - (1) they're round, so don't fit non-round coins very well (although you can buy the tighter diameter for coins that are a little off-round and it looks fine); (2) the smallest is 14mm, not much good for the large number of hammered/ancient coins below 14mm; and (3) the depth of the plastic means you can't use them for very thick coins at all.

1 and 2 might be solvable with the blank inserts, so you can custom make your own, but it would be incredibly hard to cut a precisely-shaped hole that looks good with the coin in it. The best I can manage is using a round punch to solve (2).

Having said that, they are better than anything else I've seen so far.

These are valid concerns, and dramatically misshapen coins can be more challenging. But, the material has worked reasonably well for me as it is slightly malleable versus being fully rigid. The smallest I've been able to find is a 10mm insert but even that isn't small enough for some of my coins. For those, I use small plastic Kointains and place them within a larger insert in the Quickslab.

Alas, even this won't work for everything: electrum staters, dekadrachms, and even some tetradrachms are too thick. But, it covers a large portion of my collection consistently so I'm reasonably happy with it. For the larger coins, I use inert 2x2 flips in a Lighthouse holder meant for a single slab.

[Etcherdude]

On 7/3/2022 at 4:56 AM, Prieure de Sion said:

I have never seen the Roma things. I always get the coins from Roma in a jewellery box. 

No, I would like to try these exactly:
https://www.leuchtturm.de/muenzkapseln-quadrum-ohne-ausstanzung-10er-pack.html

The question is. What is the most practical way to cut out the foam? Since I don't have a standard round template for antique coins.

 

PS: Perfectionism. No - I just don't like it when the coins hang crooked in the foil in the self-adhesive coin frames afterwards. And with the round capsules, I don't like it when they "fly" back and forth as well.

I’ve been wondering the same thing. I’ve used precut lighthouse foam in their slabs and like them. I’m pretty certain that an xacto knife would be the tool to use. Please let us know how it goes.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Etcherdude

[Prieure de Sion]

Source: https://www.leuchtturm.de/muenzkapsel-quickslab.html

 

Ok, I have decided to go for the big "slabs" after all. They are available in 1mm increments. I simply ordered a few different sizes. I like the fact that I can add a little card with labelling at the top. 

I went through the collection. I don't have any extremely oval coins. Some coins have a diameter of 20-19mm roughly - so a deviation in the circle of 1-1.5mm at most. I think this could work with the round cut-outs.

Maybe I can get the 20-19mm coins into a 19mm slab - or I take the 20mm slab and the "hole" of 1mm is not immediately visible to the eye. I'll let myself be surprised how it will look. I will take pictures and put them here.

[John Conduitt]

33 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

Ok, I have decided to go for the big "slabs" after all. They are available in 1mm increments. I simply ordered a few different sizes. I like the fact that I can add a little card with labelling at the top. 

I went through the collection. I don't have any extremely oval coins. Some coins have a diameter of 20-19mm roughly - so a deviation in the circle of 1-1.5mm at most. I think this could work with the round cut-outs.

Maybe I can get the 20-19mm coins into a 19mm slab - or I take the 20mm slab and the "hole" of 1mm is not immediately visible to the eye. I'll let myself be surprised how it will look. I will take pictures and put them here.

Yes slightly off-round coins will look just fine in round cut-outs. If you have a coin that is 18-20mm, I think an 18mm cut-out will work. If you push the coin edgeways into the foam, the foam will stretch without risking damaging the coin. Even any that are more oval than that don't look terrible with a small gap. I have cut halfpennies that actually look quite good with half coin, half gap.

As I said, the trouble starts for me with coins below 14mm.

Edited July 8, 2022 by John Conduitt

[Prieure de Sion]

5 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

As I said, the trouble starts for me with coins below 14mm.

That's a problem, of course, with such very small coins.

Why do you also collect such small coins? 😄 

For me, such small coins would be nothing. They would all die the death of the hoover. Just imagine - a collection of Celtic 12mm gold coins ... 10,000 euros gone in the hoover. Or the cat eats them up.

[John Conduitt]

1 hour ago, Prieure de Sion said:

That's a problem, of course, with such very small coins.

Why do you also collect such small coins? 😄 

For me, such small coins would be nothing. They would all die the death of the hoover. Just imagine - a collection of Celtic 12mm gold coins ... 10,000 euros gone in the hoover. Or the cat eats them up.

😂 Oh I have very many under 14mm. A lot of Celtic, most early Saxon, almost all barbarous radiates, clipped siliquae, medieval Muscovite coins and wire money, Ashoka drachms, cut farthings and halfpennies, medieval English farthings and halfpennies, Tudor and Stuart farthings and halfpennies, Elizabethan threefarthings, and some Golden Horde dangs. I even have official Roman coins that are a touch under 14mm (enough not to be held by the foam). My smallest coin is 7mm but 11-14mm is very common.

Having them in the same size capsules as bigger coins solves the problem of cats and hoovers. 

You can actually buy smaller capsules with foam inserts, I think from 11-13mm. But the plastic is also smaller, so you can't store them with the bigger capsules.

Edited July 8, 2022 by John Conduitt

[Prieure de Sion]

So the first coin capsules from Leuchtturm arrived today - the first package is with the "QUADRUM INTERCEPT", which are supposed to actively protect the coins from oxidation. The more valuable coins are in there now.

And I have to say - perfect. I measured the coins and then took the foam 1mm smaller. It can be stretched and fits the slightly oval coins perfectly. There is no gap to be seen. As long as the coin is not oval like an egg, it should always fit.

I have found my solution for now - I am very happy with it. Fit 10 points. Optics 10 points.

 

[Etcherdude]

Here's an example of do-it-yourself slabbing with Lighthouse slabs. They come in boxes of five and are easy to open and close.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Etcherdude