Nero triumphal arch sestertius - please help with ID

[Prieure de Sion]

I get this Nero Bronze Sestertius with the triumphal arch and I can`t find it at RIC. Problem ist, for Nero Bronze Coins I had only RIC, no Cohen or other References. The label says it is RIC 573. The basic informations about this coin are the following.

Nero, Mint Lugdunum (Globe), ca. 67 AD
Sestertius, Diameter: 36.5mm and Weight: 28.09g
Obverse: Head of Nero, laureate, left (!) and globe
Inscription: IMP NERO CAESAR AVG P MAX TR P P P

So ok. At OCRE Online RIC I get with the following search attributes Nero + Sestertius + triumphal arch the results of 18 possible coins.

RIC 143 to RIC 150 (no IMP at beginning)
RIC 392 and RIC 393 (no IMP at beginning)
RIC 432 and RIC 433 (no IMP at beginning)
RIC 498, RIC 499 and RIC 500 (with IMP at beginning, but PONT MAX TR POT)
RIC 573, RIC 574 and RIC 575

The first three groups don`t beginn with "IMP..." at the obverse Legend.
The 498-500 RICs beginn with "IMP" but the 4th the End with PONT MAX and TR POT.

RIC 573 is a 1:1 match with the obverse legend, but 574 and 575 writes "P MAX TR POT". So the only RIC with "IMP NERO CAESAR AVG P MAX TR P P P" was RIC 573. But 573 was with head to the right and not left!

Here is the complete search-link for Online OCRE:
https://numismatics.org/ocre/results?q=authority_facet%3A"Nero"+AND+denomination_facet%3A"Sesterz"+AND+rev_type_text%3Atriumphal+arch 

 

I search - but the type RIC 573 was rare (head right) and head left I don't see in any publication. Have anyone another book like Cohen or other and find the Nero triumphal arch Sestertius with his obverse legend and head to the left?

[idesofmarch01]

According to my copy of RIC, your coin should be a "65G" with the obverse legend IMP NERO CAESAR AVG P MAX TR P P P, Nero laureate left, and triumphal arch on the reverse.

It appears that it simply isn't listed since none of RIC 573, 574, or 575 has all of these specific legends and features.  So you seem to have an unlisted type, at least in RIC.

I don't have any of the other references so I can't be helpful in checking those sources.

Congratulations on having an unlisted type!  By the way, nice coin too -- Nero's coins almost always seem to be attractively struck even those that have weathered some circulation.

[Prieure de Sion]

6 minutes ago, idesofmarch01 said:

Nero's coins almost always seem to be attractively struck even those that have weathered some circulation.

Nero also has a grateful face/portrait. Thanks to his impressive typical profile, his coins always look beautiful - even if the coin only has a "fine" grade.

 

8 minutes ago, idesofmarch01 said:

According to my copy of RIC

Thanks for looking!

 

8 minutes ago, idesofmarch01 said:

Congratulations on having an unlisted type!

Let's wait before congratulating you 🙂 even if it's meant very kindly. But besides the reference, I still have to find out whether this is a real coin or a fake. Could also be a fantasy type - which doesn't really exist. I still have to rule that out and make sure that this is a contemporary Sestertius. Then I congratulate myself too 😄 

[idesofmarch01]

42 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

Let's wait before congratulating you 🙂 even if it's meant very kindly. But besides the reference, I still have to find out whether this is a real coin or a fake. Could also be a fantasy type - which doesn't really exist. I still have to rule that out and make sure that this is a contemporary Sestertius. Then I congratulate myself too 😄 

I'm curious -- do you have any specific reasons to believe that the coin isn't authentic?  E.g., dodgy seller, price too low, seam on edges, low weight, etc.?  

While I'm not an expert in detecting forgeries, I've seen and handled a reasonable number of first century Roman bronzes, and nothing about your coin seems inauthentic.

[Prieure de Sion]

29 minutes ago, idesofmarch01 said:

I'm curious -- do you have any specific reasons to believe that the coin isn't authentic?  E.g., dodgy seller, price too low, seam on edges, low weight, etc.?  

 

Seller is serious (Auctionhouse), but...
Price is for this type and this variety too too too low. So why no other Bidder will bid on this lot?
For this general-type (Nero triumphal arch - and Claudius also) there are many fake`s on the market.
The coin is a little bit smooth in the stamp. 

All this only indices - but if you have any little bad feeling - better check it 🙂 
 

[idesofmarch01]

1 hour ago, Prieure de Sion said:

All this only indices - but if you have any little bad feeling - better check it

How do you plan to have it authenticated?

[Prieure de Sion]

4 minutes ago, idesofmarch01 said:

How do you plan to have it authenticated?

First I will check the fake databases at Numiswiki and other sides. Then my two neutral experts will take a first look. Next step was a local check - I have a expert in Munich - he will check the coin in his hands. And if that was also ok - I will send the Nero to NGC with metallic test. The last step I will do only if it was a special / expensive coin. 

[John Conduitt]

It’s a typical obverse for the time with a typical reverse. Just not together. It happens a lot that such coins exist and are not always in RIC. I don’t think that in itself is a sign it might be fake.

[Prieure de Sion]

1 hour ago, John Conduitt said:

It’s a typical obverse for the time with a typical reverse. Just not together. It happens a lot that such coins exist and are not always in RIC. I don’t think that in itself is a sign it might be fake.

The Nero Bronze is a typical "it's too good to be true price" purchase. I'm always a bit sceptical about that. My alarm bells always go off and I become cautious 🙂 
 
But you're probably right. In the meantime, two experts I know have also given the green light for counterfeits. At first glance - from the pictures alone - nothing suspicious is immediately recognisable. As far as you can tell from just the pictures! I'll be curious to see when the Nero arrives here. Nevertheless, I will of course have the coin checked in my hand to be on the safe side.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Prieure de Sion

[Tejas]

For what it is worth, I think the coin is genuine. However, if you post it to the German numismatic forum the “fake vigilantes” there will no doubt point out that the coin shows the softness and holes that are typical of a cast. 🙂

Edited December 1, 2023 by Tejas

[kirispupis]

My biggest issue with it is the wear doesn't seem to be consistent across the coin. On the reverse, there is more wear across the top and bottom than elsewhere. On the obverse, there is more wear from 3 o'clock to 10 o'clock than elsewhere, and that hasn't reached the portrait. The style of it reminds me too much of the Titus Meta Sudans coin in the latest Triton we've been discussing.

On the positive, the weight is right. Most of the casts I noticed were much lower, though there are some spot on. As you've already stated, this is a commonly faked type. I'm also very skeptical when a type is unlisted. Sure, it happens, but to me it's a big red flag and always warrants extra investigation.

In my opinion, though it could simply be paranoia on my part, there are enough concerns about the coin that I'd pass on it and wait for another example that I felt more confident about. I very well may be wrong, but in general I take the attitude "fake until proven real" for types where fakes are common, and this one hasn't provided enough to change my mind.

Note that, although I focus on Greek, this is a type I've had my eyes on. Nero and I share the same birthday and I've always wanted an example. This is one of his types I've been looking at, but I've yet to find a coin that checks all the boxes.

[Julius Germanicus]

The Coin is also unlisted in Cayon, "Los Sestercios del Imperio Romano", Vol 1, and Suarez, ERIC II.

There are Sestertii with the exact same obverse legend AND laureate head left and globe, albeit with different reverse types. 

It could be a mule or a new combination.  I would advise looking for die matches to genuine coins.

Unlisted 1st century Sestertii do exist - I have one of Vitellius.

 

[Prieure de Sion]

1 hour ago, kirispupis said:

In my opinion, though it could simply be paranoia on my part, there are enough concerns about the coin that I'd pass on it and wait for another example that I felt more confident about. I very well may be wrong, but in general I take the attitude "fake until proven real" for types where fakes are common, and this one hasn't provided enough to change my mind.

The bronze only cost me around 350 euros. And as it's from a reputable auction house - if it's a fake, I can easily exchange the coin for my money back. So I will definitely pay for the coin first and have it sent to me. I can always claim it later. That's not a problem.

Once it's here, I'll have the bronze examined more closely. Also by my expert. But I'm not going to pass up this opportunity.

Imagine I turn down the purchase and it ends up being a "valuable" variant that is genuine. As I said, I'm not losing anything. If the bronze turns out to be a fake, I'll get my money back anyway 🙂 

 

10 minutes ago, Julius Germanicus said:

It could be a mule or a new combination.  I would advise looking for die matches to genuine coins.

It has already been suggested to me that it might be a mule. Thanks for looking it up by the way!

[Nemo]

"It has already been suggested to me that it might be a mule."

 

I thought that a mule would be an official hybrid.

Hybrid = not fitting die combination, for example die combinations between different emperors and mints or there is a huge time gape between the dies.

 

This obverse and reverse die is from same Emperor, mint and from the same year, so completely normal die combination.

 

 

[John Conduitt]

2 hours ago, Julius Germanicus said:

I would advise looking for die matches to genuine coins.

Yes good idea. Shouldn't be too many dies and you only need one match.
 

4 hours ago, kirispupis said:

My biggest issue with it is the wear doesn't seem to be consistent across the coin.

I don't know if the wear is a sign of it being a fake. The coin may not have entirely untouched surfaces, though. Maybe the less worn bits have been 'lifted' out of the patina.