Benefactor kirispupis Posted October 30, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 30, 2023 Recently, I added this interesting bronze. The attribution below is from the seller. Ionia, Myos c. 3rd century BCE Æ 9mm, 1.22g, 9h Turreted female head r. R/ Bow and arrow. Imhoof, KM p. 90, 3 Admittedly, I purchased this coin because I thought it came from a very different city from Myos/Myous. I reasoned that Myrmekion in the Bosporos was a more likely source based on its similarity to the bow/arrow types of Phanagoria and Pantikapaion. I even added a Pantikapaion example, but upon receiving it, it became clear to me that my theory must be false. Cimmerian Bosporos, Pantikapaion Circa 300 BCE AE 2.30g, 15mm Head of youg Pan left. Bow, arrow “ΠAN” MacDonald 116 Not only is the arrow different and the bow/arrow in a different arrangement, but Myrmekion is an active archeology dig and I read several papers on the progress there, and no such coins as mine were uncovered. So, what other options did I have? Luckily, I found this paper by Lenger, where he recorded four such coins being found in a horde! Lenger agreed with me that they could not have come from Myous, since that type is already attested - though most coins to that city are still misattributed. In the paper, he referenced this blog post which theorized that the city could be Myonnesos. However, Lenger felt that unlikely, and he proposed Myrina instead as the source. The iconography of the coins is consistent with the city: the turreted female head is an Amazon, the founder of the city; the bow and arrow on the reverse are two of the most important war attributes of the Amazon, like the double headed axe and sword. In order to make my own opinion about where this coin is from, I created a map of where the coins in Lenger's horde originated. The numbers are how many coins were in the horde from that city. I've also labeled the rough locations of the cities that begin with 'My'. Locations are approximate. Therefore, given the map, the following are my thoughts on where this is from. Myndos - was never really a candidate, but it's obvious that it's not there Myous - Myous was a small city that eventually silted up and became part of Miletos. There are coins from this area in the horde, but they're from the much larger cities of Miletos and Magnesia. This also significantly differs from the known types of this city and I wouldn't expect four coins from there in this horde. Myonnesos - There's no evidence I found that Myonnesos was much of a city or minted any coins. It's primarily referenced as a geographic feature during the naval battle between Antiochos III and the Romans in 190 BCE. Therefore, I just don't see how four coins from a city not believed to have minted any would wind up in this horde. Mytilene - Mytilene was a powerful city at the time and it would have been logical for their coins to be mixed in based on their nearby location. Although there are no similar issues under their bronze coinage, their electrum does depict a turreted Artemis (such as this coin). The bow + arrow would be an obvious choice for either Artemis or Apollo, who was on much of their bronze coinage. Myrina - The main issue I have with Myrina is their coinage is well-known and that of the period does not depict any turreted females. Aeolis, Myrina 4th century BCE Æ 17mm, 3.71g, 12h Helmeted head of Athena r. R/ Amphora; lyre to r. SNG Copenhagen 225 Myrina's coinage does feature the turreted bust of the Amazon Myrina, but only beginning in the 3rd century CE - roughly 600 years later. On the other hand, some of their silver coinage of the 4th century BCE does feature Apollo and Artemis, though she is three-quarters facing such as in this coin. Note that one coin from Myrina already appears in the horde. Unfortunately, the paper does not state which type. I'm more inclined to attribute these coins to Mytilene based on the following. Mytilene was an Aeolian city and one of the most powerful in the region. Given its proximity, it seems otherwise odd that its coins are not represented in the horde. I've read elsewhere that their bronze coinage was common on the mainland. There are (electrum) coins from the same period with similar depictions of a turreted Artemis The coin is very different from Myrina coinage of the time Mytilene also had coinage with only MY from the time, such as this coin What do you think? 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryro Posted October 30, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2023 I'm with you, Mytilene seems the most logical I think that you should give it to me. After all, it is MY coin. It even says so on the coin😉 Here's another coin of MYne LESBOS Mytilene. BI Trihemiobol (Circa 480-400 BC). Obv: Female head left, wearing taenia. Rev: Head of lion right within incuse square. BMC 60-2; HGC 6, 1095. Very fine. 0.96 g. 8 mm. Purchased from Savoca Feb 2022 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Snible Posted October 31, 2023 · Member Share Posted October 31, 2023 I like where you are going with this! I was unable to find any references to this type other than the Imhoof-Blumer you have already mentioned. https://books.google.com/books?id=tcIsAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA90#v=onepage&f=false and https://books.google.com/books?id=tcIsAQAAMAAJ&pg=PT11#v=onepage&f=false The ISGRIM database once said there was a small bronze, Apollo Hd R / Bow with inscription "MY" from Myra in Lycia. This is cataloged as Weber Collection 7283. Unfortunately I can only find Weber volume 1 and 2 online so I cannot check what information he had. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor rNumis Posted October 31, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) It looks like all the Weber volumes can be found on Hathitrust...here's the text: Section is LYCIA / Myra (Dembre) League Coinage BC 168 - circ 81 The coin image in the scan I checked is poor....I'm looking to see if they have different scans that might be a bit better Edited October 31, 2023 by rNumis 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor rNumis Posted October 31, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) The best images are at archive: https://archive.org/details/webercollectiong03webe/page/n177 Edited October 31, 2023 by rNumis 6 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Snible Posted October 31, 2023 · Member Share Posted October 31, 2023 Thanks, @rNumis! At one time I kept links to references, but I stopped because the site "Digital Library Numis" was doing it better than I could. That site has been dark for a while, although they continue to post updates. Does anyone know the situation with that site? The Weber catalog points to BMC. Here is the plate: https://books.google.com/books?id=F2wCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PT29#v=onepage&q&f=false Luckily, George Hill has explained that the head/Bow with MY is attributed to Myra based on the markets they appeared in first: "The strongest evidence in favour of Myra is that adduced by Borrell who says 'Four examples of this coin have been in my possession at different times and as I have noticed they were all brought from the Lycian coast or from the island of Rhodes.' Unless a northern provenance can be proved for other specimens it seems best to revert to Borrell's attribution." See https://books.google.com/books?id=F2wCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PR53#v=onepage&f=false 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted October 31, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Ed Snible said: Thanks, @rNumis! At one time I kept links to references, but I stopped because the site "Digital Library Numis" was doing it better than I could. That site has been dark for a while, although they continue to post updates. Does anyone know the situation with that site? The Weber catalog points to BMC. Here is the plate: https://books.google.com/books?id=F2wCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PT29#v=onepage&q&f=false Luckily, George Hill has explained that the head/Bow with MY is attributed to Myra based on the markets they appeared in first: "The strongest evidence in favour of Myra is that adduced by Borrell who says 'Four examples of this coin have been in my possession at different times and as I have noticed they were all brought from the Lycian coast or from the island of Rhodes.' Unless a northern provenance can be proved for other specimens it seems best to revert to Borrell's attribution." See https://books.google.com/books?id=F2wCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PR53#v=onepage&f=false Thanks @Ed Snibleand @rNumis! Borreli‘s logic sounds strong, though it doesn’t make sense for Lenger‘s hoard. One thing that puzzles me, and this could be me trying to look at the plates from my phone in a hotel room, is they don’t appear to be the same coin. The female is neither turrreted, nor does the obverse seem to match. i wonder if George Hill is referring to a different type. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Snible Posted October 31, 2023 · Member Share Posted October 31, 2023 5 hours ago, kirispupis said: i wonder if George Hill is referring to a different type. Hill calls the type Apollo, so it is a different type. I brought it up because it wasn't on the list of MY bow candidates and was similar in size to your coin. The pictures are so bad that I can't tell if it is really Apollo or even male. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.