What books do you recommend? Carolingian coins

[Hrefn]

Another coin for my Carolingian subcollection.  This is a coin of Charles the Bald, AKA Charles le Chauve, minted between AD 840-864, in the city of Paris.  It predates the coin of Oddo posted above by a couple of decades.  Paris was once the home of the Parisii, a Celtic tribe, and the city is indicated by CIVITAS PARISII.   Depeyrot 762.  38 examples known to him.  1.83 grams.  From Patrick Guillard auction E-5 lot 42, October 2023.  

 

Carolingian coins employ names for mints which seem anachronistic to me.  I have a coin of Strasbourg which states the mint location as ARGENTINA CVNAS, which harkens back to the Gaulish name of Silver City or Treasure City.  Were these old Latin and Gaulish names still in current use, or was this deliberate anachronism?  We know that Old French had by this time drifted sufficiently far from Latin that sermons in Latin were poorly understood by church-goers.  I imagine Gaulish was even more remote.  Of course, everyone who was literate used Latin for any written communication, so perhaps the old Latin designation for places on coins should be expected.  

[ominus1]

..very nice Hefn..:)...lQQks much like me Louie le Pious...( also featuring a  jeton of Louis XVII^^)

[JeandAcre]

@ominus1, to your point, off the top of my head, I can't think of an issue of Charles the Bald that didn't imitate ones of Louis or even his granddad, Charlemagne.  Not note-for-note, but enough that there's no mistaking the inspiration.

@Hrefn, the orthography on French feudal coins is no less entertaining.  Following the Carolingian period, even the medieval Latin, vis. Old French, had kind of taken on a life of its own.  Thank you for pointing out that comparable oddities, involving closer adherence to the original Latin, were already happening this early.

I could guess that when the Classical Latin orthography survives intact --as in Strabourg, rather than with subsequent Medieval Latin embroidery-- it may merely symptomize that, with Medieval Latin still a work in progress, the Classical precedent was effectively all there was to go on.  Apparently the die sinkers weren't comfortable with mixing vernacular city names with otherwise Latin legends.  Regarding Strasbourg, the same anachronism shows up in the Salian period.  (With apologies for the size; I've never figured out how to reduce .jps.)

Heinrich II, 1002-1024.  Denar of Strasbourg.  

Obv.  Heinrich facing.  (From 5 o'clock, retrograde:) HENRICVS IMPR AV

Rev.  Two church towers above; one (front view, with arcade) below.  Cruciform mint signature: (vertical:) ARGEN[...] (/horizontal:) [...]TI[...]NA.

Kluge, Die Salier, 82. 

As a further irony, despite the protestation of the city's name, the obverse field has a prominent peck mark.  Which, right, was solely to test whether the coin was good silver.  Either the merchant was illiterate, or he just wasn't buying it! 

Edited October 25, 2023 by JeandAcre

[Hrefn]

My Carolingian collection received another addition.  This coin is much more common than some of the earlier acquisitions.  The obverse is struck from a worn die, but the reverse is the more interesting side, to me anyway.  The GRATIA DEI REX (GDR) coins differ substantially only there, where the mint name is displayed, This is a Latin term which may already be a bit anachronistic.  See CIVITAS PARISII for Paris, above.  

This coin is from present day Le Mans, then CINOMANIS CIVITAS, or city of the Cenomani, a Gallic tribe.  By the time Charles the Bald had this coin struck, in 864 to 875 AD, the Cenomani who supplied 5000 warriors to the cause of Vercingetorix during the Gallic War were probably long dissolved as any sort of political or ethnic identity.  Le Mans remained an important town, and the capital of the Province of Maine.  Situated as it is at the junction of Brittany, what was to become Normandy, and the Carolingian state, Le Mans was a frequent site of strife.   The Count of Maine would perish in 885 AD fighting against the Vikings who were pillaging Rouen.  

 

From Patrick Guillard,  03 Jan 24.   Depeyrot 559, examples known 2228.   “Sans doute immobilisé” so the lifetime issues are differentiated by weight.  This is a heavier example.  

 

[JeandAcre]

Brilliant, @Rand.  On stylistic grounds alone, never mind the weight, your example is easily contemporaneous to Charles the Bald.

I have one or two 10th c. immobilizations of Charles's issue, leading up to the later one, beginning with Herbert I.  (For those tuning in late, the count of Le Mans, 1015-1035 ...itself immobilized through the Angevin period, up to Philippe II's conquests from the beginning of the 13th century.  ...Back to immobilizations from the later and early post-Carolingian periods, here's an illuminating post by @seth77.)

 

Here's the available pictures of one of my immobilizations.  ...Nothing to write home about!

Le Mans, c. later 10th century.  Provisionally attributed to Hugues II, Comte de Maine 931 - c. 992.

Obv.  ‘KAROLVS’ monogram; (from 9 o’clock:) ‘CRATIA D--I REX.’  (‘GRATIA D[E]I REX;’ by the grace of God, King.)
Rev. Cross; ‘+CINOMANNIS CIVITA[S].’  (City of Mans.)
Depeyrot 559; Dumas, Fécamp 985.  Not in Duplessy, Féodales (not surprisingly, as an immobilization).

Here's one that I want to think is an earlier immobilization, perhaps temp. Charles the Simple (King of West Francia 898-923 (deposed); d. 929.)  Sorry, I can't confirm the weight ...which, in reference to your example, especially vis. Depeyrot, would help a lot.  But compared to the later immobilization above, it does have some heft, along with the visibly better silver content.

...And, Oops, regarding immobilizations of Le Mans /Maine, now I can't stop.  Here are two examples of the still-early comital issue of Herbert I.

Comte du Mans.  Herbert I, 1015-1032/5.  Denier of Le Mans; an early immobilization, 11th c.

Obv.  Neo-Carolingian monogram: 'ERB [ER]TVS.'  Legend: +COMES CENOMANI'S.

Rev.  Cross, pellets in upper angles; suspended from either arm: "Alpha barré, barré avec barre angulaire [...]."  +SIGNVM DEI VIVI.

Duplessy, Féodales 398, 398A. 

(With variants from both listings, for the obverse legend and the reverse motif.  Routine for the series; 'Nothing to see here, folks.')

These are perpetuated over the 12th century, if not later; the style, composition and even module degrade over the whole interval.

Meanwhile, though, here's the only unambiguous lifetime issue of Herbert that I've ever seen.  (Unattributed as such on Delampe; I said, 'I'm having that bad monkey!') 

On the basis of relatively recent, solid hoard evidence, as documented by Duplessy, the one and only "tell" for these is the rendering of the 'M' in 'CENOMAN[/N]IS' as something that looks more like "O)." 

Duplessy 397.

As early as this letter form is, it's completely independent of any transition to early Gothic.  (I want there to be examples of it on, for instance, the Bayeux Tapestry, but I for one am already too deep in the weeds with this to try to check.)  ...However, in this medium, it shows up in episcopal issues of Reims, as late as that.

Archbishopric of Reims. Guillaume II de Joinville, 1219-1226.  (Uncle of Jean, the memoirist --no, chroniclers do chronicles; this ain't that-- of Louis IX's first crusade.)

Obv.  In two lines, "GVLE [/] RMVS;" bezants above and below.  +ARChIEPISCOPVS.

Rev. (here's the fun part:) Cross; fleurs de lis and crescents in angles.  XREO)IS CIVITAS.  (Thank you, 'XRemis Civitas.')

Adam, Corpus des Monnaies Féodales Champenoises.  (Troyes, 2018.)   Pp. 160-1: 394-8.

...Sorry for the extent to which I derailed this train.  Except, @Hrefn, that's a Brilliant, Brilliant example of a lifetime issue.

 

 

 

Edited January 21 by JeandAcre

[Hrefn]

 Here is another denier of Charles the Bald, this time from the city of Beauvais.  

The obverse features the CAROLUS monogram with the first letter clearly a C and not a K, and with +BELGEVAGUS CIVI around.

The reverse shows a cross in a beaded circle, surrounded by CAROLUS REX FRAN.

This coin is Depeyrot 136, MG 1375.  Thirty examples were known to Depeyrot, and another 30 with the variant reading CAROLUS REX FRA.  These coins are thought to be lifetime issues by metallurgic analysis.  The designation of the mint as BELGEVAGUS CIVI recalls the name of the local tribe, the Belgae.   Many years earlier Caesar had written  “the greater part of the Belgae were sprung, from the Germans, and that having crossed the Rhine at an early period, they had settled there, on account of the fertility of the country, and had driven out the Gauls who inhabited those regions.”  He also said the Belgae were the fiercest of the inhabitants of Gaul.  

 

 

[JeandAcre]

Brilliant, @Hrefn.  I have to like how this issue continues the 'G' in 'BELGEVAGUS,' more clearly indicating the Belgae, compared to later issues. into the 12th century.  Nope, I have no Carolingians from this mint!

Only lately, I stumbled onto the fact that that many French (and other francophone) place names are adaptations of the ones for Celtic and Germanic tribes, going back to the initial Classical Latin adaptations of Caesar.  Until then, I was always mystified by the medieval Latin mint signatures, from the Carolingian period through the earlier phases of Capetian royal and feudal issues. 

...Right, and modern French has its own signature style of adapting those, in turn.  A fun collective example of steady, ongoing linguistic evolution.  From here, it has to evoke the continuous flow of a long river.

Here's my earliest example of an issue that drops the initial 'G' in 'BELGEVAGUS.'  Apologies for the dealer's pics, and their orientaton. 

 

 

Hugh Capet, 987-996.  Coissue with Herve, Bishop of Beauvais 987-998. 

Obv.  (From 11 o'clock:) HERVEVS [both 'Es' ligated] HVGO REX. 

Rev.  Already degraded 'CAROLVS' monogram.  (From 11 o'clock:) BELVACVS CIVITAS.  Duplessy, Royales 1.

 

[Hrefn]

This is an absolutely beautiful Class 2 denier of Louis the Pious (Louis le Pieux ou le Debonnaire) which I just purchased from CGB.  CGB did an excellent job with shipping and this package soared through customs for some reason, with no delay whatever.  I placed the order on 5 March and the coin is in hand on 9 March.  No auction commission, no bank fees, no fee for credit card use, no excessive shipping cost (18 euro from Paris to the USA).   I could hardly be more pleased.  

This coin is Depeyrot 177, with 157 examples known to him.  The mint is Bourges in central France, and it was struck between AD 819-822.  

 

 

Edited March 9 by Hrefn
Typo

[JeandAcre]

Brilliant, @Hrefn.  If you can't love these Carolingians with the linear mint signatures on the reverse ...well, for one, I can't help you. 

[Rand]

A very nice coin @Hrefn. Congratulations!

I have not found a new book on Carolingian coins, but I am reading (well, listening) to this book to learn more about the period before diving it into its coins. The periods is so full of events that shaped the Europe and eventually the World the way they are now.

Heart of Europe. A History of the Holy Roman Empire ©2016 Peter H. Wilson

[JeandAcre]

...Granted, the transition to Ottonian rule in the eastern part of the the Carolingian orbit was as dramatic and substantive as the one to the Capetians, et al., in the west.  Just reflexively, I think of the Holy Roman Empire as beginning from the Ottonians themselves, earlier in the 10th century than in the Capetians' case.

Edited March 10 by JeandAcre