Jump to content

A Rare Pair


Roman Collector

Recommended Posts

I don't think I've posted these sestertii here at Numis Forums. Moreover, I've taken new photos of them. So, here they are! Enjoy.

ManliaScantillaIVNOREGINAsestertius.jpg.6afebd7067289c103b9860fc8bea1c9a.jpg
Manlia Scantilla, wife of Didius Julianus, Augusta, 193 CE.
Roman Æ Sestertius; 28.8 mm, 22.62 g, 12 h.
Rome mint, 193 CE.
Obv: MANLIA•SCAN-TILLA•AVG, draped bust right.
Rev: IVNO REGINA SC, Juno standing left, holding patera and scepter; to left, peacock at feet, standing left, head turned up.
Refs: RIC 18a; BMCRE 32-36; Cohen 6; RCV 6083; Woodward, Didius, dies 6/-; Banti 2.

DidiaClaraHILARTEMPORsestertius.jpg.3034177d8a8d43618481d18ecfb08d4f.jpg
Didia Clara, daughter of Didius Julianus and Manlia Scantilla, Augusta, 193 CE.
Roman Æ Sestertius, 21.16 g, 30.5 mm, 6 h.
Rome, 193 CE.
Obv: DIDIA CLARA AVG, bare-headed and draped bust right.
Rev: HILARITAS SC, Hilaritas standing, head left, holding palm branch and cornucopiae.
Refs: RIC 20; BMCRE 38-41; RCV 6087.
Notes: obverse die 3, reverse die H, Woodward, "The Coinage of Didius Julianus and His Family." Num Chron. 121:71, 1961. Reverse die-match to BMC 40 and BMC 41 in the British Museum collection.

  • Like 25
  • Clap 2
  • Heart Eyes 7
  • Mind blown 1
  • Shock 1
  • Thinking 1
  • Yes 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those are very cool, quite rare empresses indeed! I dont have either, but I do have Mr. Diddy J himself 🙂

AR denarius, 15.8mm, 2.72g, 11h

Obv: IMP CAES M DID IVLIAN AVG; laureate head of Didius Julianus right

Rev:PM TRP COS; Fortuna,,draped, standing left, holding rudder set on globe in right hand and cornucopia in left.

RIC IV 2a

8E07878E-A888-4BAE-B805-6BF2C1DC2C4E.jpeg.54b34c615a7a559d46949b0c302c9a82.jpeg154FE318-5B07-40FE-821A-841E0BA436D1.jpeg.a6db5ad31102a7d45a2ff4e72cd6dd78.jpeg

Cheers and congrats!

Edited by John060167
  • Like 23
  • Clap 1
  • Heart Eyes 1
  • Mind blown 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hubba hubba! Didia Clara😍 She was supposed to be the foxiest woman in Rome. Incredible set my friend. And that toning is

Here's my not so foxy daddio. 

2554873_1644203765.l-removebg-preview.png.df654877a10fef6b38651682d9b1bf12.png.5d797b2201563dff29b65a9ac14e9979.png

Didius Julianus
193 BCE. Denarius (Silver, 17 mm, 1.92 g, 6 h), Rome. IMP CAES M DID IVLIAN AVG Laureate head of Didius Julianus to right. Rev. CONCORD MILIT Concordia standing front, head to left, holding aquila in her right hand and vexillum in her left. BMC 2. Cohen 2 corr. (omits DID on the obverse in error). RIC 1. Harshly cleaned and very rough, otherwise, fair. Purchased from Leu Feb 2022

  • Like 19
  • Clap 1
  • Heart Eyes 1
  • Mind blown 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Collecting Augustas is one of my favorite themes, I managed to get some scarce characters, but NOT Manlia Scantilla and Didia clara calibre. I don't even have Didius Julianus coins. Big congratulations!

However a question about the Didia Clara sestertius ... isn't it heavily tooled? Just asking, you know I am not an expert in this aspect, but I don't like some things. The drapery, the obverse legend (especially 10-11 o clock where I don't think the legend makes sense - letters and break) and especially the eye - looks very Picasso style. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ambr0zie said:

Collecting Augustas is one of my favorite themes, I managed to get some scarce characters, but NOT Manlia Scantilla and Didia clara calibre. I don't even have Didius Julianus coins. Big congratulations!

However a question about the Didia Clara sestertius ... isn't it heavily tooled? Just asking, you know I am not an expert in this aspect, but I don't like some things. The drapery, the obverse legend (especially 10-11 o clock where I don't think the legend makes sense - letters and break) and especially the eye - looks very Picasso style. 

No tooling. It's extremely worn, G-VG at best, and the patina is thick, shiny, and difficult to photograph.

The legend reads DIDIA CLA at left. The rest of the legend isn't visible at all. 

The stuff that you refer to after the A at 11:00 are surface irregularities in the patina. It's not part of the legend.

The face is worn flat and there's next to nothing left of the eye.

The provenance of this coin is Pegasi Auction VI from April 8, 2002. Here's the catalog listing with their photo.

DidiaClaraPegasiAuctionVI4-8-02.jpg.60285c912925fb4f89fe1cd65a7e119d.jpg

And here are some previous photos I've taken over the years.

image.jpeg.fe0d823d36d36ce4ce5c7caa9d2101fc.jpeg

image.jpeg.9dd6b07d0bc006c55460a22484b7a1d8.jpeg

Here's an obverse die-match from Woodward's study.

DidiaClarasestertiusWoodwardcloseup.jpg.0c0b2ee027785dd61a1cd072aa0f51ef.jpg

Edited by Roman Collector
Add photos
  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I meant no offence. I trust your judgement and seeing the last pics everything is clear. Your initial photo is very deceiving. I think your last photo is the best, on the initial one the "fake legend after CLA" and especially the way the eye looks were veeeeeeery suspicious for me. Like a "new eye" much lower than the original eye, completely re-engraved. Your last 2 photos clarify. 

Here is what I saw judging only your initial pic

image.png.dc4b10694891a2ccbb0dcf9c4f5313df.png

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A while back I came across a real dog in an eBay lot - it is the Juno reverse type that a lot of dishonest folks like to create out of the same, far more common type issued for Julia Domna.  With a lot of squinting I thought it possible that is is a Manlia Scantilla 

Here's my post I from CT (from a @Roman Collector OP:

The Theory: You can tell a low-grade, legendless Manlia Scantilla coin from Julia Domna by the (nascent) double chin on the former. Julia Domna is never shown double-chinned - her jawline is firmly horizontal (at least that I could find). Manlia Scantilla's jawline is show at a roughly 45-degree angle; on better preserved specimens you can actually see a slight jowl. The Woodward plates (linked by @Roman Collector above) seem to support this double-chin theory. So do the coins RC features in the OP.

Julia Domna (from various auctions on acsearch; I can provide full references; the pic titles include the auction house) - note the firm, horizontally-oriented jawline:

Julia Domna - Sest IVNO REGINA - auct1  CGB.jpg

Julia Domna - Sest IVNO REGINA - auct1 bertolami pic.jpg

Julia Domna - Sest IVNO REGINA - auct1 Elsen pic.jpg

Manlia Scantilla - note the slope of her jawline, age-appropriate for a Roman Matron (acsearch auctions):

Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Naumann.jpg
Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Roma pic.jpg
Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Roma2 pic.jpg

This one is a bit ambiguous, somewhat diminishing my half-baked theory; but the chin/jaw is shorter than is usually seen on Julia Domna, if not sloped so much as the others:

Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Solidus pic.jpg

The reason I am bringing this up is because of lot of very low-grade AEs I'm working on, which included this gem (18.23 grams on a dumpy 25 mm flan); the portrait just didn't look entirely like Julia Domna to me, so I started poking around the web and came across this CT post, and started looking a acsearch auctions, etc.:

Julia Domna or Sest IVON REG lot May 2022 (0).jpg

So as you can see, as with all half-baked theories, I have an ulterior motive - I want to own a $5 Manlia Scantilla sestertius!! :jawdrop::D:joyful::bucktooth:

Unfortunately, none of the legend is visible, just a few ghost letters amongst the pitting, perhaps. But look at that jawline! :sorry:

Julia Domna or Sest IVON REG lot May 2022 (0det5).jpg

Were I energetic, talented and dishonest, this could be smoothed and engraved into a definite Manlia Scantilla. But that's not going to happen on my watch - just a half-baked theory about Manlia Scantilla's slightly sagging jaw line. A boy can dream, can't he? :woot:

Please feel free to demolish my jawline theory. Or tell me this theory already exists, in a footnote in RIC from 75 years ago. You won't hurt my feelings. :)
 
  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Marsyas Mike said:

A while back I came across a real dog in an eBay lot - it is the Juno reverse type that a lot of dishonest folks like to create out of the same, far more common type issued for Julia Domna.  With a lot of squinting I thought it possible that is is a Manlia Scantilla 

Here's my post I from CT (from a @Roman Collector OP:

The Theory: You can tell a low-grade, legendless Manlia Scantilla coin from Julia Domna by the (nascent) double chin on the former. Julia Domna is never shown double-chinned - her jawline is firmly horizontal (at least that I could find). Manlia Scantilla's jawline is show at a roughly 45-degree angle; on better preserved specimens you can actually see a slight jowl. The Woodward plates (linked by @Roman Collector above) seem to support this double-chin theory. So do the coins RC features in the OP.

Julia Domna (from various auctions on acsearch; I can provide full references; the pic titles include the auction house) - note the firm, horizontally-oriented jawline:

Julia Domna - Sest IVNO REGINA - auct1  CGB.jpg

Julia Domna - Sest IVNO REGINA - auct1 bertolami pic.jpg

Julia Domna - Sest IVNO REGINA - auct1 Elsen pic.jpg

Manlia Scantilla - note the slope of her jawline, age-appropriate for a Roman Matron (acsearch auctions):

Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Naumann.jpg
Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Roma pic.jpg
Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Roma2 pic.jpg

This one is a bit ambiguous, somewhat diminishing my half-baked theory; but the chin/jaw is shorter than is usually seen on Julia Domna, if not sloped so much as the others:

Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Solidus pic.jpg

The reason I am bringing this up is because of lot of very low-grade AEs I'm working on, which included this gem (18.23 grams on a dumpy 25 mm flan); the portrait just didn't look entirely like Julia Domna to me, so I started poking around the web and came across this CT post, and started looking a acsearch auctions, etc.:

Julia Domna or Sest IVON REG lot May 2022 (0).jpg

So as you can see, as with all half-baked theories, I have an ulterior motive - I want to own a $5 Manlia Scantilla sestertius!! :jawdrop::D:joyful::bucktooth:

Unfortunately, none of the legend is visible, just a few ghost letters amongst the pitting, perhaps. But look at that jawline! :sorry:

Julia Domna or Sest IVON REG lot May 2022 (0det5).jpg

Were I energetic, talented and dishonest, this could be smoothed and engraved into a definite Manlia Scantilla. But that's not going to happen on my watch - just a half-baked theory about Manlia Scantilla's slightly sagging jaw line. A boy can dream, can't he? :woot:

Please feel free to demolish my jawline theory. Or tell me this theory already exists, in a footnote in RIC from 75 years ago. You won't hurt my feelings. :)
 

The best way to demonstrate it's a Manlia Scantilla and not a Domna is to find a die-match to either the obverse or reverse (reverse will be easier) in Woodward.

ManliaScantillaIVNOREGINAWoodward.jpg.9d20273c891256ef96b3f7e82723d941.jpg

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 3
  • Thinking 1
  • Yes 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Roman Collector said:

The best way to demonstrate it's a Manlia Scantilla and not a Domna is to find a die-match to either the obverse or reverse (reverse will be easier) in Woodward.

ManliaScantillaIVNOREGINAWoodward.jpg.9d20273c891256ef96b3f7e82723d941.jpg

Thanks for sharing this - I'll put it in my files.  After looking it over, I didn't see anything here that seemed a fer sure die-match to mine (the arm on Juno is kind of like Popeye the Sailor Man's on mine).  In any case, mine is so awful I think a hamburger patty might be the closest match: 

ManliaScantillaorJD-SestIVONREGlotMay2022(0diemat).jpg.214cb8913f8603ccdcd1a981e0947626.jpg

Yep, I think this is it. 😁  I still believe the slightly sagging jawline is at least an indicator for MS - Julia Domna just never looked that matronly, at least on the examples I've seen.  

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

..oh man...nice pickup on gals of the empire in the the year of the 5' RC....i have the male part of the group 🙂 

even worn, these coins demand a premium

 

 

sestertius Didius Juliianus  March-June 93AD

Juno reverse, Rome mint, 27mm, 18.24gms

IMG_0798.JPG

IMG_0799.JPG

  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice ones! These ladies sure as heck aren't easy to find.

I have a matching set of denarii, both with enough problems to make them quite budget friendly

ManilaScantillaARdenariusjuno.jpg.6ede956c5b7bec05f92f28c189fca5b9.jpgDidiaClaradenariusHilarTempor.jpg.14255b607e1346d0de726a5eb2ee0b01.jpg

And hubby too for good measure

Didiusjulianusdenariusconcordmilitvm.jpg.8747d0cbce1dbaed5aa0891af19ad028.jpg

And just for kicks, I briefly owned one coin of every emperor and empress (except Titiana) in a denarius minted between January and December 193 - I've since upgraded the Pertinax and sold the Pescennius Niger to @Spaniard in favor of a nicer one minted in 194.

20220305_141011.jpg.1abfc49b20dce05bb64ad635133acc87.jpg

  • Like 5
  • Mind blown 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...