"Toned, slightly chased"???

[GregH]

Any idea what "slightly chased" means in a description of a coin?

I have googled and remained baffled.

[expat]

I think it means there is some evidence of tooling visible.

[maridvnvm]

Chased == Tooled

[GregH]

1 hour ago, maridvnvm said:

Chased == Tooled

Oh god, I’m not touching this coin. Thank you for the clarification.

[David Atherton]

6 minutes ago, GregH said:

Oh god, I’m not touching this coin. Thank you for the clarification.

Chased you right off ... see what I did there? 😉

Edited July 28, 2023 by David Atherton

[maridvnvm]

Chasing vs Engraving

"Use for items that have had grooves cut (rather than cast) into them. These terms are used in various ways, but in theory 'engraving' involves the removal of a tiny amount of metal, and chasing does not - the metal is just pushed aside by the tool."

[Pellinore]

Repoussé and chasing, two techniques for the silversmith. You need a special hammer and a plate of silver. Repoussé work means hammering at the back to make a little hill at the front, and chasing is the other way: hammering a groove. For instance, the gold Mask of Agamemnon in the museum in Athens (1600 BC) is mainly repoussé work, but for instance the hairs of his eyebrows and many other details were chased.

The Mask of Agamemnon was discovered by Heinrich Schliemann. It so impressed him (and rightly so) that he called his son Agamemnon. Later it was surmised the mask was much to old for the era of the Trojan war.

[DonnaML]

I know that there are 17th century and earlier medals that were originally cast rather than struck, and are often described as "cast and chased." The "chased" part refers to engraving done (as described above) contemporaneously, after the casting of the medal -- unlike "tooling" done in modern times for purposes of improving appearance to facilitate a sale.  I have no idea what "slightly chased" means, or if it refers to something done originally or to something like tooling done in modern times. If the coin at issue was originally struck rather than cast, I would probably avoid it.

Edited July 29, 2023 by DonnaML

[Octavius]

 I always thought "slightly chased" meant "almost celibate"!

[GregH]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:53 AM, DonnaML said:

I know that there are 17th century and earlier medals that were originally cast rather than struck, and are often described as "cast and chased." The "chased" part refers to engraving done (as described above) contemporaneously, after the casting of the medal -- unlike "tooling" done in modern times for purposes of improving appearance to facilitate a sale.  I have no idea what "slightly chased" means, or if it refers to something done originally or to something like tooling done in modern times. If the coin at issue was originally struck rather than cast, I would probably avoid it.

Yep definitely avoiding this one.

Note to CNG: when writing a description of a coin, your aim should be CLARITY.

 

[GregH]

UPDATE: the auction house replied to my enquiry thus:

Chasing is a form of post-mint alteration or damage that was popular in the 16th-18th centuries, particularly on medals or large coins. The fields of a coin would be crudely smoothed down. This is in our opinion distinct from smoothing, which is a more modern alteration intended to deceive. 

So chasing is smoothing of fields done crudely? Why not just call it “smoothing”, since that term is well understood, but “chasing” is not?

Oh well, you learn something every day!

[John Conduitt]

What is smoothing done with? Is it always with some sort of grinder?

[Orange Julius]

Since it seems you’re not considering a purchase, maybe link the listing? I’m curious to take a look at this “chasing.” 

[Glebe]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:43 AM, Pellinore said:

Repoussé and chasing, two techniques for the silversmith. You need a special hammer and a plate of silver. Repoussé work means hammering at the back to make a little hill at the front, and chasing is the other way: hammering a groove. For instance, the gold Mask of Agamemnon in the museum in Athens (1600 BC) is mainly repoussé work, but for instance the hairs of his eyebrows and many other details were chased.

The Mask of Agamemnon was discovered by Heinrich Schliemann. It so impressed him (and rightly so) that he called his son Agamemnon. Later it was surmised the mask was much to old for the era of the Trojan war.

Note that many people suspect that Schliemann added the moustache to the Agamemnon mask with a bit of repousse of his own in order to give it a more Prussian look.

Ross G.

[GregH]

On 8/3/2023 at 9:59 AM, Orange Julius said:

Since it seems you’re not considering a purchase, maybe link the listing? I’m curious to take a look at this “chasing.” 

Here it is:

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=7009&lot=693

 

 

[maridvnvm]

I am unfamiliar with the type. I always rely on other examples to compare with. This is more difficult with ancients because you need a die match but here it is relatively straight forward. 

Looking on ACsearch you can find quite a few other examples to compare. I do not know if there are bust variations for this type but comparing with all the other examples that I could find there appears to have been a major change to the coin between the top of the forehead and the crown. The shape of the brow is different and the curls of hair are not evident in the example in question. The examples I was comparing with seem to be die matches in all other respects.

Perhaps there was damage or a plugged hole in this area that they were trying to disguise.

When does chasing become tooling?

[GregH]

15 hours ago, maridvnvm said:

I am unfamiliar with the type. I always rely on other examples to compare with. This is more difficult with ancients because you need a die match but here it is relatively straight forward. 

Looking on ACsearch you can find quite a few other examples to compare. I do not know if there are bust variations for this type but comparing with all the other examples that I could find there appears to have been a major change to the coin between the top of the forehead and the crown. The shape of the brow is different and the curls of hair are not evident in the example in question. The examples I was comparing with seem to be die matches in all other respects.

Perhaps there was damage or a plugged hole in this area that they were trying to disguise.

When does chasing become tooling?

I consider it tooling. Either way, it's undesirable and i will be staying away from coins with "chasing".

18th century roubles of the Romanovs are magnifient coins, but it's very hard to find a problem-free example. Also, fakes are rampant in this series.