KyNumis Posted November 11, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) Hi everyone! Today, I just bought my first Athens owl. It was really cheap due to the repaired crack. But all in all it was a great buy! ATTICA, Athens. Circa 165-42 BC. AR Tetradrachm (31mm, 15-16g, 12h). New Style coinage. Miki– and Theofra–, magistrates. Struck circa 137/6 BC. Helmeted head of Athena Parthenos right / Owl standing right, head facing, on amphora; magistrates’ names in fields; to right, Nike driving quadriga right; Unreadable letter on amphora, MH below; all within wreath. Thompson 318b; HGC 4, 1602. Good/Fine. Cost 130£ Purchased November 2022 (Today) Edited November 15, 2022 by KyNumis 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisimo Posted November 11, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted November 11, 2022 Congrats @KyNumis. The New Styles are cool and the size makes them great in-hand. Here is mine. Attica. Athens AR Tetradrachm, struck ca. 167-8 BC Dia.: 30 mm Wt.: 16.78 Obv.:Head of Athena right wearing triple crested attic helmet adorned with Pegasos Rev.: Α-ΘΕ above MI / KI and ΘΕΟ / ΦΡΑ (Miki[on] and Theophra[stos]) Owl standing facing on amphora Θ, AP below. Ref.: Thompson 320g 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyNumis Posted November 11, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Curtisimo said: Congrats @KyNumis. The New Styles are cool and the size makes them great in-hand. Here is mine. Attica. Athens AR Tetradrachm, struck ca. 167-8 BC Dia.: 30 mm Wt.: 16.78 Obv.:Head of Athena right wearing triple crested attic helmet adorned with Pegasos Rev.: Α-ΘΕ above MI / KI and ΘΕΟ / ΦΡΑ (Miki[on] and Theophra[stos]) Owl standing facing on amphora Θ, AP below. Ref.: Thompson 320g Same quadriga rev. Awesome! Edited November 11, 2022 by KyNumis 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 11, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) Dear Curtismo, why are you using the Thompson high chronology dating? Even KyNumis is using the Low Chronology. The Gaziantep and Commerce Demetrios i Hoard is the final nail in the coffin of the high chronology of Thompson and Morkholm. KyNumis's coin has the NEW obverse obverse I published on academia New Coin Types...Nike in Quadriga.. I cannot read the amphora date. He says E, but the EF example I found had a M/ Lambda This obverse is very distinctive with sharply cut v-shaped neck-line and sharp pointed nose. The reverse is not the same as ecoli’s T324 M / ΣΩ new combination below. The new obverse does not seem to have been shared with a following three magistrate issue. My NIKE in QUADRIGA Edited November 11, 2022 by NewStyleKing 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 11, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 11, 2022 KyNumis, hope when you get the coin you can take far better photo's. I certainly cannot read the amphora letter. You will also find that most collectors know or don't care about numismatics and read nothing about it only asking people for advice. A bit like asking for info on a Mars bar whilst screwing up the wrapper with the info on it...........I am an advocate for reading up on things, for most coin people possession is 99% and more of the thrill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Snible Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 @KyNumis @NewStyleKing What does the MH below the owl represent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisimo Posted November 15, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted November 15, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 2:16 AM, NewStyleKing said: Dear Curtismo, why are you using the Thompson high chronology dating? Habit more than anything else. I have the Thompson reference and so that is what I used to catalogue when I wrote my description. I try not to just copy/paste from auction descriptions in order to do my own research where possible. I am aware that Thompson’s dating was disputed but I have never come across another reference that supplements her work nor a separate work that catalogues the series as she does. If you know where I can access such works I’d be most appreciative if you could point me in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 Date TYPE Comment Intercal Tet & Drachm tet & drachm die links No of obverses 164/3 No Symbol 2 Monograms 3 3 163/2 Kerchnos & Bakchos 2 Monograms 3 4 162/1 No Sign 2 Monograms 3 3 161/0 No Sign or Cornucopiae 2 Monograms 4 5 160/9 2 Palms 2 Monograms 1 2 159/8 Club 2 Monograms 7 7 158/7 Rudder 2 Monograms . 6 7~ 8 157/6 Nike 2 Monograms 7 8 156/5 Trophy 2 monograms 13 13 155/4 Ear of Grain 2 monograms 6 7 154/3 Caps of Dioscouri 2 monograms 9 10 153/2 Cicada 2 monograms Start of 1st controls 10 12 152/1 Two Serpents 2 monograms N 12 16 151/0 Term of Hermes 2 Monograms 7 7 150/9 Kernos AMMO - DIO Start of 2nd control not both or niether 8 9 149/8 Palm Leaf behind Owl POLU-TimX 1st control in field & 2nd on amphora together 10 11~12 148/7 Cornucopiae AMMO - DIO 2nd controls only 12 14 147/6 Trident Head ADEI - ELIO 2nd controls only 9 10 146/5 Cock with Palm XAPI - ERA 2nd controls only 9 10~12 145/4 Forepart of Bridled Horse Monogram--LUSIA 1st control on amphora 2nd in field/under 12 14~16 144/3 Thyrsos 2 Monograms 14 17 143/2 Apollo DIOPHA - DIODO Reverse 18 20 142/1 Macedonian Helmet & Star DEME - IERO overstrike 19 19 141/0 Eagle 2 Monograms 17 17 140/9 Nike holding Wreath note 2a KTESI - EUMA Order change from Thompson N 21 21 139/8 Aplustre note 2b 2 monograms Order change from Thompson 19 19 138/7 Helios Bust GLAU - ECHE N 20 20 137/6 Nike driving Quadriga MIKI - THEOPHRA 10 11 136/5 Lionskin Club & Bowcase HERE - ARISTOPH 3 magistrtates start here 12 12 135/4 Asklepios Snake & Stick MENED - EPIGENO N 9 9 134/3 Anchor & Star TIMARCHOU - NIKAGO 9 9 133/2 Winged Caduceus POLYCHARM - NIKOG 6 7 132/1 Forepart of lion DOROTHE - DIOPH 8 8 131/0 Elephant ANTIOCHIOS - NIKOG / KARAICHOS 6 6 130/9 Winged Thunderbolt THEOPHRA - SOTAS N 8 8 129/8 Dionysus,Thyrsus & Cup DIOGE - POSEI m 7 7 128/7 Cornucopia & Grain Stalk ACHAIOS - ELI m 8 8 127/6 Cicada LUSAN - GLAUKOS m 11 12 126/5 Eagle on Thunderbolt EPIGENE - SOSANDROS m 11 11 125/4 Tripod POLEMON - ALKETES m 18 18 124/3 Prow of Ship KARAICH - ERGOKLE m 18 19 123/2 Discouri POLEMON-ALKIDEM m 16 17 122/1 Nike APHRODISI - APOLECHI m 11 11 121/0 Three Graces EURYKLEI - ARIARA m N 16 16 120/9 Double Cornocopia APHRODIS - DIOGE 12 12 119/8 Helios in Quadriga DIONYSI - DIONYSI 25 25 118/7 2 Torches AMMONIOS - KALLIAS 15 15 117/6 Trophy on Prow THEOMISTO - THEOPOMITOS 14 14 116/5 Apollo Delios SOKRATES - DIONYSODO 15 15 115/4 Bunch of Grapes METRODOROS -MILTIADES / DEMOSTHEN 16 16 114/3 No Symbol DIOTIMOS - MAGAS 17 17 113/2 Triptolemus in Chariot EUMAREIDES - ALKIDAM / KLEOMEN 16 16 112/1 Demeter & 2 Torches CHARINAUTES - ARISTEAS 10 10 111/0 Artemis with Torch PHANOKLES - APOLLONIOS 13 13 110/9 Artemis with Fawn EUBOYLIDES - AGATHOKLE Both in 13 110/9 Bee ZOILOS - EUANDROS one year 13 109/8 Quiver & Bow DAMON - SOSIKRATES 12 12 108/7 Tyche EUMELOS - KALLIPHON* 16 16 107/6 Winged Tyche & Amphora A HERAKLEIDES - EUKLES 1 10 10 106/5 No Symbol THEODOTOS - KLEOPHANES 17 17 105/4 Winged Tyche & Amphora B HERAKLEIDES - EUKLES 2 N 22 22 104/3 Dionysus & Demeter ANDREAS - CHARINAUTES 12 12 103/2 Wreath IKESIOS - ASKLEPIADES 11 11 102/1 Dionysus Mask & Thyrsus TIMOSTRATOS - POSES N 14 14 101/0 Ears of Grain AMPHIKRATES - EPISTRATOS 15 15 100/9 Tyche Staff & Cornocopia DOSITHEOS - CHARIAS N** 29 29 99/8 Gorgon Head +++ NIKETES - DIONYSUS M 33 33 98/7 Pegasos +++ ARISTION - PHILON M 30 31 97/6 Caps of Dioscouri +++ DEMETRIOS - AGATHIPPOS N * 47 47 96/5 Winged Agon AROPOS - MNASAGO ? 25 25 95/4 Coiled Snake XENOCLES - HARMOXENOS (l) 2 Magistrates R 19 20 94/3 Hermes / No sign NIKOGENES - KALLIMACHOS 2 & 3 Magistrates 17 17 93/2 Headress of Isis DEMEAS - HERMOKLES 3 Magistrates N R 17 18 92/1 Dolphin & Trident XENOCLES- HARMOXENOS (ll) 2 Magistrates R 42 42 91/0 Kerchnos note 1 MNASEAS - NESTOR 2 Magistrates R 10 10 90/9 Roma XENOCLES - HARMOXENOS (lll) 2 Magistrates R 14 14 89/8 Roma & Nike KOINTOS - KLEAS 3 Magistrates R 7 7 88/7 Griffin APELLIKON - GORGIAS 3 Magistrates M 12 12 87/6 Star & 2 Crescents note 4 KING MITHRADATES- ARISTION 2 Magistrates from now M 3 4 86/5 2 Ears of Corn KOINTOS - CHARMOST * Imitation Restored* 2 2 85/4 Beatyl with Fillets KLEOPHANES - EPITHETES N NO Z 7 7 84/3 Harmodios & Aristogeiton MENTOR - MOSCHION 8 8 83/2 Isis ARCHITIMOS - DEMETRI 7 7 82/1 Poppy Head ** LUSANDROS - OINOPHILOS 6 6 81/0 Demeter Single Torch ** AMPHIAS - OINOPHILOS 10 10 80/9 Ares ? ** EUMELOS - THEOXENIDES 8 8 79/8 Stag ** NESTOR - MNSEAS N 17 17 78/7 Bakchos ** SOTADES - THEMISTOKLES 6 6 ?? Demeter & Artemis ** LYKIOS - ANTIKRATHES 1 1 ?? Herekles ** PANTAKLES - DEMETRIOS 2 2 ?? Looped Fillet ** THEOTHRASTOS - THEMISTO 1 1 ?? Sphinx ** DIOPHANTOS - AISCHINES 1 1 ?? Isis ** DEMEAS - KALLIKRATIDES 2 2 ?? Apollo with Lyre note 3 MNASTORGORAS - MENTOR 0 1 ?? Helmet ALKETE - EYAPON 2 2 ?? Dionysus DIONYSIOS - MNASTAGORAS 1 1 ?? Apollo Lykeios EPIGENES - XENON 4 4 ?? Demeter MENEDEMOS - TIMOKRATES 4 4 ?? Hekate MENNEAS - ERODES 1 1 ?? Winged Caduceus DIONYSIOS - DEMOSTRATOS 1 1 ?? Cicada No tetradrachms known (Democharcs-Pammenes) 0 0 ?? Asklepios DIOKLES - LEONIDES 1 1 ?? Dionysus PHILOKRATHES - ERODES 1 1 ?? Triptolemus KALLIMAXOS - EPIKRATES 2 2 ?? Fillleted Thyrsos ARCHITIMOS - PAMMENES 4 4 ?? Hygiaie DIOKLES - TODEY - MEDIOS 3 3 ?? Demeter APELLIKON - ARISTOTELES 1 1 ?? Head of Eagle note 5 HERAKLON - ERAKLEIDES 1 1 ?? Hekate TRYPHON - POLUCHARMOS 1 1 ?? Nike PHILOKRATHES - KALLIPHON 3 3 ?? Dionysos TO TRI DIOKLES - DIODOROS 2 2 ?? Athena Parthenos DIOKLES - MEDIOS 1 1 53/42 BC? Artemis END of NEW STYLE COINAGE ?? APOLECHIS - LYSANDROS 1 1 Note 1 Here because of Morkholm " The beginning of Athenian New Style silver coinage" ANSMN 29 1984 Note 2a, 2b Order change : H. B.Mattingly " Some Third magistrates in the Athenian New Style silver coinage" J Hell Stud 1971 Note 3 Hierpetyna Hoard- New tetradrachm " The Hierapytna Hoard - A Supplement" Revue Belge de Numasmatique 1975 O.Carramessini- Oeconomides & Fred Kleiner. Habicht 1994 does not have this coin in his list- a fatal weakness? m Sequence from :Meadows " "Thasos" / New Style Hoard" in Coin Hoards 9 *** Sequence from Morkholm " The beginning of Athenian New Style silver coinage" ANSMN 29 1984 +++ Sequence from "Review of LGPN 2" H.B. Mattingly NC 1997 Thompson knew 110 issues NOW 113, consisting of the Star & Crescent King Mithradates " special issue", restoration of the KOINTOS "imitation" and the NEW MNESTAGORAS- MENTOR SEATED APOLLO with LYRE from the Hierapytna hoard. Does the Slave Revolt / No Coinage year actually add a year or even exist? The V large issue of Caps of Dioscuri .issue 69 has been stated to be a correction for a no issue or a very low previous issue due to the Slave revolt at Laurion. There is no room or evidence for a very low issue previous. note 4 Morkholm has King Mithradates as issue 78 because Fawn / Bee given 1 issue number since BOTH only in one year N* New intercalary : MacDonald, D * A new Athenian intercalary tetradrachm" SM 192 1999 ** Habicht, Ch " zu den munzmagistraten der Silberpragung des Neuen Stils" Chiron 1991 Habicht does not include the APOLLO with LYRE. NEW COIN and just basically follows Thompson each descending year down to 54/3 BC. Not defensible really because of so few coins and likely new finds. So stopped at Backhos. note 5 A die link, but not absolute positioning from the "Hierpetyna Hoard- New tetradrachm " The Hierapytna Hoard - A Supplement" Revue Belge de Numasmatique 1975 O.Carramessini- Oeconomides & Fred Kleiner. Note 6 Doubt cast on the meaning of control letters due to “The Agrinion Hoard”, Thompson, M., ANS 1968 N** Coin Hoards 1 RNS 1975 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 THIS IS MY OWN WORK BASED ON ALL THE RELEVANT RESEARCH. tHE GAZIANTEP hOARDS AND DEMETRIOS l HOARD both on academia tend to agree with the start date of Lewis. Mattingly etc...........not Morkholm The end date is c 42 BC, start date according to Meadows , personal info, c 164 BC 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 The MH below the owl (mostly) is the 2nd control. Thompson's research tends to show it was the name of the silver source owner, most likely! There is work in Thompson that shows coins close together frequently have 2nd controls in common. Thompson is now on line, can be accessed via WILDWINDS, Athens page at the bottom ios the link and via the ANS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 Sources for research on the New Style coinage of Athens with comments (Update January 2021) This is all the papers I can find that are pertinent to the study of the Athenian New Style coinage. The specific Rome-Pontic times need background reading for the times and personalities involved where the evidence from coinage is often discussed. Jongkees, J.H, “Notes on the coinage of Athens-VII, O DEMOS and Antenor’s Tyrannoktones”. Mnemosyne, third series vol.13, phase 2 pp 145-160 1947 An excellent disquisition on the “O DEMOS” imitation New Style and the two types of Tyrannicide statue groupings. I have made my own findings and ideas in an article on academia.edu below which differs in who minted that type and possibly where. Bellinger, Alfred, “The chronology of the Attic New Style tetradrachms”. Hesperia supplements Vol. 8 ,Commemorative studies in honour of Theodor Leslie Shear 1949 pp 6-30 +439 American School of Classical Studies at Athens. This is the earliest one really needs to go before Thompson, (However, see above) since it sets the position of all the famous early workers upto 1949. For me it is the note that despite the then (and now), unanimous agreement that the king Mithradates and Aristion “Star between Two crescents” type is agreed at 87/6 BC he warns that. “It seems historically possible that it should have been struck at some time during the previous year, and that is an item that should be borne in mind by future investigators. Earlier than 88 or later than 86 it clearly cannot be”. I have never read of any comment of this point and I don’t know what to make of the possibility, however in my chronology of the Rome–Pontic times the gap year Mattingly and I introduced for 88/7 BC could be filled by the king Mithradates issue and then no New Style for the next year. Was the gap filled by Pontic tetradrachms of the idealised portrait type of king Mithradates with a grazing stag reverse and a “A” in the reverse upper right field and month date -and only for a few months? These are believed by some to be minted in Athens. Or was it filled by a huge supply of the “Star between Two Crescents” fulminating Zeus bronze issue? Thompson, Margaret. ”The beginning of the Athenian New Style coinage”. ANS Museum Notes 5 1952 This paper analyses the Anthedon hoard which contained excellent examples of the four earliest New Styles coupled with Euboean and other coins from which she dated the New Styles c 196 BC. This seems to be her original error which compounded other errors in her chronology. Now-days other coins are dated on the low chronology of the New Styles not the other way round and the “fit” seems convincing. Thompson, Margaret. ”Workshops or Mines”. ANS Museum Notes Vol 5 1952. An analysis of the enigmatic second controls on the New Style coinage. Essentially it is pro-mines over workshops. I think maybe, other sources, from time to time, might have been used such as temples, ports and coin changing tables. This is hard to prove but short lived or repeated patterns of short lived letter groups could be them. At what point was Laurion as a silver source considered spent? Contra: see De Luca 2015 below. Thompson, Margaret. “The New Style silver coinage of Athens” ANS 10 1961. 2 volumes text and plates. A tour de force of numismatic diligence, analysis, interpretation and disquisition. The shear amount of research work and compilation makes this book relevant today since in most parts its sequencing is still intact and unchallenged. Some minor but correct changes in and around the “over-represented” New Styles by Andrew Meadows on original work by DeCallatay notwithstanding-other changes are challengeable e.g. the Rome–Pontic times. Here she made no connection because she came to the conclusion, against an earlier position, that the New Style started in 197 BC with the liberation of the Greeks by Flamininus and ended with the Sullan siege in 86. The king Mithradates issue she called a “special issue” commemorating a special benefaction by an earlier Pontic king c 120 BC. This position became rapidly untenable and was immediately attacked by Lewis (below). Referenced to as NSSCA. Lewis, D.M. “The Chronology of the Athenian New Style Coinage”. Numismatic Chronicle 1962. Mainly on prosopographical and hoard analysis Lewis immediately attacked Thompson’s dating whilst praising the work generally and accepting the sequencing. He favoured for the start date 164/3 and an end at the c 50’s BC. The Rome-Pontic times and the seemingly associated New Style coinages were Miss Thompson’s Achilles heel. This led to a vigorous debate in which Margaret Thompson eventually conceded defeat c 1984. Thompson, Margaret, “Athens Again”. Numismatic Chronicle 1962 This riposte in defence of her opus magnus appeared in the same edition of NC as D.M. Lewis’s article above. The thorny problem of overstrikes and the dating of the over or under-types was contentious but her other arguments didn’t convince. The dating of her hoard evidence depended on the chronology of other coins whose dating was itself open to doubts. Varoucha-Christodoulopoulou, Irene. Bulletin de correspondence Hellenique, LXXXVI (BCH), pp 422 and plate XI 1962 A record of hoard contents from Kilkis. This one of the discovery of the then only second known Thompson issue five “2 Palms” - too late for Margaret Thompson’s book. It had the same obverse as in NSSCA but a new reverse. See Thompson 1966 and Varoucha 1963 below. Varoucha-Christodoulopoulou, Irene. Arch. Deltion 4, 1963 Reports of two New Style containing mixed coin hoards later quoted by M. Thompson in a hoard from Northern Greece 1966 below which along with the Kilkis hoard above may be related. Varoucha’s Thompson 1 she reports has being Thompson 3a. This is correct for obverse but this is yet another new reverse pairing. I am surprised Thompson didn’t pick this up. The article is in Greek and difficult to fathom. Jenkins, G.K.” Review of “The New Style silver coinage of Athens”. The Journal of Hellenic Studies, vol.83 pp 215-216 1963 He was not convinced by her chronology and he pointed out that “The Drinking Pegasus” symbol does not, however, appear on the Pontic coinage until 96 BC, in the time of Mithradates VI”. A point I remembered for my Rome-Pontic chronology work-although there are undated types which DeCallatay, (“L’Histoire des Guerres…. 1997 below), thinks are a bit earlier. Holloway, Ross R,” Review of “The New Style silver coinage of Athens”. American Journal of Archaeology, Vol.67, #1 pp 92-93, January 1963 Seemed not too bothered by the dating since Benjamin Meritt’s Athenian chronology seemed to match some of her intercalary dating. However it seemed to latter commentators that one fed off the other and in doing so led both of them astray. He comments on Dea Roma (Roma), on Athenian New Styles being different from that on Roman republican denarii and that a closer Greek variety, seated Aetolia, might be a closer type. I think he was wrong it is Roma and the next die–linked coin is Roma and Nike. Thompson, Margaret. ” A hoard from Thessaly” Museum Notes ANS Vol II 1964 A few remnants of over 100 silver coins of a mixed hoard of which a few New Styles and excellent tetradrachms of Perseus are described. She saw this as evidence of her early chronology. This hoard should be reconstructed, if possible, in the manner of the Gaziantep hoard. Price, Martin Jessop, “The New Style Coinage of Athens: some evidence from the Bronze issues” The Numismatic Journal and Journal of the Royal Numismatic Society, seventh series Vol 4 1964 The bronze coinage has a difficult to follow typology (see Kroll and Walker 1993). Price, using hoards of two types’ seriates the issues. The “Two Pilloi” he links to the largest silver New Style c 99BC issue and associates with the Laurion slave revolt and the “Star between Two Crescents”, also with the silver issue which he equates with 86BC. He still, at this stage, seems to support Thompson against Lewis. Thompson, Margaret.” A Hoard from Northern Greece”. ANS Museum Notes 12 1966 A mixed hoard of tetradrachms containing, New Styles, Macedonian coins of Philip, Perseus, and Makedonon, two Byzantion Alexanders and a Thasos. Lots of new reverses in the New Style. One new obverse and new reverse combination in the “No-sign/Cornucopia” Thompson issue four. On modern “Lewis” dates the New Styles range from 163/2-150/9 missing issues #1, #3, #5, #8, and #10. She states that except for the Makedonon types, all the coins have considerable wear and thus didn’t help with the then dating controversy. Thompson, Margaret, “The Agrinion Hoard”. ANS Numismatic Notes & Monographs 159 1968 A very large and important very mixed hoard catalogued completely with comments. Sadly Thompson still was using her wrong high chronology which didn’t help in the dating of the hoard. The thirty nine New Styles had three new obverses and twenty two new reverses with two new second controls. A New obverse of “Nike” had on its new reverse a star above the owl-surely a make-weight to fill an accidental gap left by the die artist. Makes a remark about the “Palm behind Owl” issue that the control marks need re-thinking about for that issue and are not as in her catalogue- I still think it is valid though. Sadly no new obverse die links. Mattingly, Harold. B,” Review of the Agrinion Hoard”. Numismatic Chronicle 1969 A sensible review of this very important hoard where the “low chronology” of the New Style list is shown to be superior to Margaret Thompson’s “high chronology”. The talk about the magistrates is important and the magistrate DIOKLES who appears on three late coins is important in the low chronology and the end of the New Styles. The denarii of this mixed hoard needed re-dating according to him. States that the New Styles should be used as a dating base for other types of coins. Dates the hoard to c 119 C. Mattingly, Harold. B,”Some problems in second century Attic prosopography”. Zeitschrift fur Alte Geschichte (ZAG), Vol.20 #1 pp 26-46 1st qtr 1971 A study of families and stemma, intercalary dates, stelae and other decrees is brought to bear on the New Style coinage. He is a strong supporter of Lewis but thinks that “Antiochos” of the “Elephant” issue still refers to a Seleucid prince but a different one from Miss Thompson. He later changed his mind under the influence of Habicht to reject any royal Seleucid link. He also mentions the slave revolt as a disruption in the New Style coinage. I cannot endorse it. Mattingly, H. B, “Some third magistrates in the Athenian New Style silver coinage”. The Journal of Hellenistic Studies, Vol.91 pp 85-93 1971 Another study by this author in 1971, which ostensibly concentrates on the identities of the third magistrate but does not seem to do so for long. It mentions the relationships of the first and second magistrates and defends generally her sequencing but not her dating favouring the low chronology of Lewis. In it he introduces a partial chronology and list from 140 BC to 82/1 and the hoards that support his view. He seems to ignore the slave revolt now and places the Sullan pseudo-Athenian coinage following on from the king Mithradates issue but crucially has a no coinage year between the “Griffin” of Apellikon/Gorgias and the King Mithradates coining. The no coinage he ascribes to the anarchia, I too have once subscribe my year gap to anarchia also but I had forgotten about his precedence. Here also, he separates two coins of Thompson’s sequence “Nike holding Wreath” that abutted with “Bust of Helios” with “Aplustra” because both coins are intercalary and he thought that unallowable-but who really knows with Athenian calendrics! Boehringer, Christof, “ Zur chronologie Mittelhellenistischer munzserien 220 -160 v chr“ Deutsches Archäologisches Institut 1972 A German language publication which neither I nor Google can translate. Any gems in there are hidden from view. It is him who restores the “Two Ears of Corn” which Thompson removed from the corpus, is he also responsible for moving the “Kernos” issue which she put as following the “Star between Two Crescents” issue into the body of the Rome-Pontic times? Maybe I shall never know. Kleiner, Fred, S. “The Giresun Hoard”. ANS Museum Notes 19 1974 A large and important mixed hoard found in 1933 with lots of Pontic tetradrachms mixed with Bithynian, early/late period Athenian New Styles Inc. “Star between Two Crescents” issue, Syrian, Cappadocian and cistaphoric coins. Includes an “O Demos” type. Also includes the first catalogue of the similar CESME HOARD, (now in the Boston Museum of Fine Arts), of 1960 and mentioned in a footnote in NSSCA, containing Pontic, Chian, Bithynian, cistaphoric and two “O Demos” coins. Caramessini-Oeconomides, M. and Kleiner, F. “The Hierapytna Hoard, A Supplement”. Revue Belge de Numismatique CXXI 1975 A huge and important mixed hoard of Athenian New Styles, cistaphoric coins, Cretan silver and Roman denarii originally found in 1933? This supplement concentrates on the Athens and the cistaphoric coins, that contained the last discovered new New Style issue , (Apollo with Lyre),and an obverse die link between two late post-Sullan New Styles “Head of Eagle” and “Hekate”. Two new obverses: one each of “Drinking Pegasos” and “Headdress of Isis” are published and new reverses and die combinations. Often ignored by researchers the original Hierapytna Hoard needs re-investigating.: it is believed to be deposited c 40’s BC Habicht, Christian, “Zur Geschichte Athens in der zeit Mithradates VI” Chiron 6 1976 A no doubt important paper bringing the New Style coinage of the Rome-Pontic times back into view, but sadly I cannot translate it and all gems are lost to me. Badian, E, “Rome, Athens and Mithradates”. American Journal of Ancient History I 1976 An excellent article on this turbulent and significant time and one that has an appendix. Entitled “The Coins”, it contains the only reference I can find that concerns itself with the question of what is the significance of the “Nike crowning Roma“symbol on a New Style coin of the Rome-Pontic times. He says it clearly refers to the Roman social wars. I think it is the most likely but in my article on academia.edu, (Roma & Nike: who deserves the crown?), I try to tighten the chronology of various events but to no avail. Some local Roman military actions significant to Athens, say in Macedonia, could be celebrated in the symbollogy of this coin. Sherwin-White. A.N, “Ariobarzanes, Mithradates, and Sulla”. The Classical Quarterly Vol. 27 issue No.1 May 1977 More on the complex politics and confusion of the Cappodocian kingdom at this vital time. The numismatical difficulties of the associated coinage are highlighted. Giovannini, A, ”Rome et la circulation monetaire en Grece au Ile siècle avant Jesus- Christ” Basle 1978 A collection of ideas that the Romans after the battle of Pydna forced the Greeks to a major currency change in the 160’s BC. Still thinks the “wreathed coinages” are a homage to Rome. Sadly in French which I cannot read. Tracy, S V. “Athens in I00 BC”. Harvard studies in Classical Philology, Vol. 83, pp 213-235 1979 An interesting view into ancient Athens and who was who derived from inscriptional evidence just before Mithradatic influence became evident. Does the slave revolt really leave any evidence? Some interesting coin talk in the footnotes. Mattingly, H B, “L. Julius Caesar Governor of Macedonia”, Chiron 9 1979 In this paper about the Aesillas coinage, (see Bauslaugh 2000), the appendix is about the latter New Styles. He recants his no issue years in his two papers of 1971 preferring Boeringher’s position for “Kernos” to Habicht’s citing the latter’s use of incomplete hoard information. Habicht has a paper in 1991 which I also cannot read but has not altered his position. Andrew Meadows in “Treasure Islands” 2011 is also not convinced by the “Kernos” placing citing its lack in three Delian coin hoards. Mattingly’s other two coin placings are based on prospographical grounds and seem to not been taken up by Habicht in 1991 also. Kroll & Walker mention the pairing of various post- Sullan silver with some AE’s in their 1993 paper below. This area is crying out for a modern review. Burnett, Andrew,” Review - Rome et la circulation monetaire en Grece au Ile siècle avant Jesus- Christ by Adalberto Giovannini”. The Classical Review, New Series, Vol. 30 No. 2 1980 Praises the above book and finds it convincing and then finds fault when Giovannini’s ideas seem to fail when transferred to Asia Minor. Giovannini, A.”La circulation monetaire en Grece sous le protectorat de Rome”. Annali dell’Istituto italiano di numismatica 29 1982 Sadly in French and any gems are lost to me and I cannot find a review to help me. Morkholm, Otto, “The chronology of the New Style coinage of Athens”. American Numismatic Society Museum Notes 29 1984 A very influential paper that tackles both the beginning and the end of the New Styles. Introduces a sequence from “Caps of Dioscuri” dated by him 99/8 BC to “Isis” 83/2. In this sequence is the restored “Two Ears of Corn” given 86/5 BC but with a question mark and the “Kernos” issue allocated 91/0 also with a question mark. I do not know the precedents, if any, of this paper but it is copied by others up to my published revised chronology of the Rome-Pontic times, including Habicht and DeCallatay, although Andrew Meadows had doubts: see below. Morkholm said the evidence for yearly issues at the beginning were weak and proposed a start date c 185-180 BC. He gave the end date as c45-40 BC. Bauslaugh, Robert, “Two unpublished overstrikes; New Style Athens and Aesillas the Quaestor”. ANSMN 32 1987 Tries to unravel the controversy of the overstrikes that have bedevilled the conundrums of chronology for the New Styles. Fails essentially but unravels the Aesillas coinage in a later book (below), which answers one of the problems. Mattingly, H.B, “The beginning of the New Style silver coinage“. Numismatic Chronicle 1990 A defence of the low chronology of Lewis that pinpoints magistrates with early issues and gives them dates in answer in part to Otto Morkholm’s 1984 paper above. Habicht, Christian, “ Zu den Munzmagistraten der Silberpragung des Neuen stils”. Chiron, Deutschen Archaologischen Instituts Band 2I 1991 A German language publication which neither I nor Google can translate. Any gems in there are again hidden from view. Has a sequence 150/49 “Kernos” through to 54/3 BC “Artemis”, no gaps. Essentially down from “Beatyl with Fillets” in the same order as Margaret Thompson but with no mention of the 1975 discovery of a new New Style issue or the discovered die link from the Hierapytena Hoard. I do know that Mattingly accepts that the Seleucid prince theory of the “Elephant” issue is now fantasy but what else is in there I do not know. His Rome-Pontic times are as Morkholm’s. Muller, Jorge W.,”Intercalary months in the Athenian dark-age period”. Schweizer Munzblatter 41 November 1991 A distinguished radiation scientists attempt to resolve some aspects of Athenian calendrics using intercalary dates. I cannot comment on the astronomical and other issues but he promised at the bottom of page 88 “The practical realisation of this programme will be addressed in an article “now in preparation” ( my italics and quotation marks), where the dates for the complete New Style coinage of Athens are discussed and rearranged on the basis of the calendar”. My research shows it failed to appear and is never discussed again and thus his re-dating of New Styles should be rejected. Glenn, Richard Bugh, “Athenion and Aristion of Athens”. Phoenix Vol.46 #2 pp108-123 1992 An article that tries to untangle the mystery of Athenion and Aristion. The consensus tends to be that they are two people and not a conflation and confusion. DeCallatay, F, “Athenian New Style tetradrachms in Macedonian hoards”. American Journal of Numismatics 2nd series 1992 This paper highlights the “over-representation” of four New Styles in Macedonian hoards belonging to the mid to late 120’s BC. Mattingly, Harold, B. “The Ma’Aret En-Nu’man Hoard 1980”. In Essays in honour of Robert Carson and Kenneth Jenkins. Spink London 1993 Contained a single New Style specimen of issue seven “Rudder”. Using a New Style start date of the “low chronology” is amongst evidence that down dates its burial. Kroll, John H., Walker, Alan S. “The Greek Coins”- The Athenian Agora .The American Journal of Classical Studies at Athens. Vol. 26 The Greek coins 1993 A fascinating disquisition on coin finds from the Agora. For the Rome-Pontic times the AE section 3 gives dates for the “Two Pilloi” and the “Star between Two Crescents” types. Comments are very interesting about the lead composition of the Mithradatic bronze and that this is a common coinage. I have noted this. There are other discussions on the possible linkage of some of the probably post-Mithradatic AE Athena/Owl on Amphora with some corresponding silver New Style issues and their dating and sequencing and the cessation of the New Style. This paper contains so much and is easily overlooked but should not be. DeCallatay, F. and Prokopov, Ilja, “A late Alexander of Mesembria Overstruck over Athens”. Spink Numismatic Circular Vol. CII No.5 June 1994 A rare overstrike that is on an Athens coin that is close to and related to the “over-represented” New Styles recognised by DeCallatay above. DeCallatay, F. and Prokopov, Ilja,” An overstrike of an Hellenistic tetradrachm of Thasian type on Athens in the Popina Hoard (IGCH 930)”. Hellenic Numismatic Society No.13 Athens 1994 The low chronology of the Athens New Style here helps date the Thasian overstrike. Aydemir, Pinar and Price, Martin, ” The Candarli hoard of New Style Athenian silver”. Studies in Ancient Coinage from Turkey (British Institute of Archaeology at Ankara Monograph 17) Edited by Richard Ashton London 1996 From ancient Pitane an accidental find was carefully excavated by the local authorities. Fifty eight New Styles including 14 drachms from “Bust of Helios” the penultimate entry in the early Thompson catalogue and ending with “Caps of the Dioscuri” from the beginning of the late catalogue. Nothing of note just a few Thompson variations and a new third magistrate with some light speculation as to why such Attic weight coinage was in a cistaphoric area. Auge, C, Devesne, A., Ergec, R., ”Le Debut des Tetradrachmes d’Athenes du Nouveau style : un trésor trouve près de Gaziantep en 1994 ’’ Anatolia Antiqua 5, 1997 According to Meadows and Houghton’s ”The Gaziantep Hoard ” and Lorber’s “Demetrius I Hoard” below, this apparent part of the reconstructed whole was used by the authors to once again update the New Style start date. This they demolished. The catalogue and plates are useful-anything else, being in French I cannot tell. Replaced in importance by Meadows & Houghton’s and Lorber’s work. De Callataÿ, F., “L’Histoire des Guerres Mithradatiques vue par les Monnaise ’’ Louvain la Neuve 1997 A magnificent book but in French and mainly untranslatable by Google and I and any gems in it are lost to me, Contains catalogues, plates and text about the coinage produced for and influenced by the Mithradatic wars. It floats the idea that “Roma” and “Roma & Nike” should be conflated. It brings to my notice the altered “Star between Two Crescents” example on which I wrote “Mithradates in Paris and London” below. DeCallatay publishes occasional updates to this publication. Mattingly, H.B, “Review of LGPN II”. Numismatic Chronicle 1997 Families identified in the New Style coinage and a new sequence published with changes brought about from this research. Seems to be more important than it would appear and the changes in the sequences have not seemingly been commented on. Prokopov, Ilja and DeCallatay, F., “A late Hellenistic hoard from south-west Bulgaria (Area of Gotse-Deltchev)”. Numismatic Chronicle 158 1998 This hoard includes the “over-represented” New Styles but also vitally is one, which I have observed, that goes down to and includes the “Hermes/No Sign” type. Maybe this points to this type being a few years earlier than the sequencing of Morkholm et al shows and which Meadows later observed (“Treasure Islands”) below was missing from Delian hoards.. Probably a vital observation I have suggested in my Rome-Pontic chronology that “Hermes/No Sign” could be moved upwards. MacDonald, D, “A new Athenian Intercalary tetradrachm”. Schweizer Munzblatter SM (Swiss Numismatic Gazette) 48 192 1998 Intercalary dated coins are important if the Athenian calendar could be understood and it was regularly adhered to. It seems not to have been though. This is a “Caps of Dioscuri” type that is at the earlier portion of the Rome-Pontic times as in Morkholm’s original paper of 1984 (above). Muller, Jorge W., “The chronology of Ephesos revisited”. Schweizer Munzblatter Band 77 1998 A re-dating of the dated coins of Ephesos on grounds that the Romans only actually controlled and minted coins in Ephesos five years later than assumed from the bequest of Attalos III. My ideas on the significance of the “Headdress of Isis” symbol in the Rome-Pontic times benefit hugely from his scheme. Opposed by DeCallatay in “More than it would seem….” 2011 below. MacDonald, D, “Syrian imitations of New Style Athenian tetradrachms struck over Myrina”. Berytus Vol. XLIV 1999-2000 An analysis of a coin hoard that shows the importance of the New Style coinage over the waning influence of the Myrina tetradrachm-even if they are imitations! Fischer-Bossert, W.”Der Hortfund vom Dipylon 1875 (IGCH 339)” Athenische Mitteilungen 114 1999 An account of an important mixed hoard found in the excavation of the Dipylon. It contained a large quantity of New Styles tetradrachms and drachms including the “Star between Two Crescents” issue. Also four Pontic king Mithradates tetradrachms which all have an “A” for the year and go up to month four. Some believe these to be a special Athenian Pontic issue. Sadly I cannot read German so any gems in there is lost to me but no doubt updates Margaret Thompson’s erroneous view of this hoard also published in NSSCA. Bauslaugh, Robert, A., “Silver coinage with the types of Aesillas the Quaestor”. ANS Numismatic Studies 22 2000 This book of text and plates analyses the coinage and produces startling results but only a date range for the production of this vital coinage to New Style studies. Much more could have been said about the warfare and politics of the times of the Aesillas coinage. The problematical overstrike Aesillas over late Athens is dealt with by the realisation that the Aesillas type was an episodic production and a “type immobilier” and the problem is no more. Ashton, R.H.J,”Rhodian bronze coinage and the siege of Mithradates VI”. Numismatic Chronicle Vol. 161 2001 A paper that originated the idea that the epiphany of Isis incident during the siege of Rhodes spawned Isiac symbols on the contemporary bronze coinage of Rhodes. This idea I took up and applied to contemporary Ephesian cistaphori. The significance of the altered “Star between Two Crescents” New Style now seems to support Ashton’s idea and my expansion on it. Meadows, Andrew, “Thasos”/New Style Hoard 1996 (CH9, 265)”. NC/ANS 2002 A hoard that gives a new “middle catalogue” obverse die link, (Linking “Cicada” and “Eagle on Thunderbolt”), and a convincing analysis of the “over-represented” coins in Balkan hoards. He brings a new order into the sequence from “Winged Thunderbolt” to “Three Graces” that satisfies the evidence and alters that local sequence which had existed since Margaret Thompson’s 1961 publication. Notes three new obverses one each in “Cicada”, “Prow” and “Twins of Dioscuri”. Witschonke, Richard, Amandry, Michel, “Another Fimbria Cistophorus” American Journal of Numismatics Vol 16/17 2005 A very interesting paper for the background to the Rome-Pontic times about Fimbria. Identifies his forbears and his peregrinations around Asia Minor avoiding Sulla, killing Flaccus and defeating Mithradates jnr. whilst taking Pergamum in 85 BC. Concludes that these rare coins were minted in Pergamum. Somehow identifies the obvious Roman military standards on the reverse as anything but. Matyszak, Philip, “Mithradates the Great: Rome’s indomitable enemy”. Pen and Sword 2008 A good biography and history. Probably needed more on the power politics of Athens and Asia Minor, if such sources exist. Lorber, Catherine, C. “Commerce (“Demetrius I” Hoard), 2003 (CH 10.301)” Coin Hoards X ANS 2010 An analysis of a coin hoard with dated Seleucid material that seems to confirm the low chronology and sequence for early Athenian New Styles. Has a Thompson issue five “2 Palms”, with new obverse coupled with a new reverse with only one palm. This certainly gives this rare issue two obverses and three reverses excluding the G&M coin (Nisbet,” Some new coin types…. below), as an imitation. Also has a new “Cicada” obverse, close to Thompson 68. Apostolou, Eue, “Three hoards of New Style Athenian coins from Delos”. Obolos 2010 A study that published coin hoards IGCH 292,293 and 295, which led Andrew Meadow’s to some vital observations below. Meadows, A.R, and Houghton Arthur, “The Gaziantep hoard, 1994 (CH9; 10.308)” ANS Coin Hoards X 2010 A very valuable reconstruction of several batches of coins into a single find of a mixed hoard containing Seleucid dated coins and New Styles amongst other types. This hoard nicely complements the work of Catherine Lorber above. Lots of New Styles from issue #1 through to issue #22 but omission of #2 and #5. Confirms the low chronology dating and Thompson’s general sequencing of the early catalogue. Lots of new obverses-at least twenty three he records as “Thompson Not (known)”. Quite a few more as known to Thompson but with new obverse/reverse combinations also. This level of diligence gives me confidence that he also looked for die links but found none. Mayor, Adrienne, “The poison king: the life and legend of Mithradates-Rome’s deadliest enemy”. Princeton University Press 2010 An unusual approach to biography and history, it is difficult to separate fact, faction and fiction. Discusses the “comet” coins of Mithradates and Tigranes. Lots of coin pictures but of only one side. Meadows, Andrew, “Treasure Islands: review of Eue Apostolou’s “Three hoards of New Style Athenian coins from Delos”. American Journal of Numismatics 23 2011 His analysis of her paper observes that there are missing coins that would be expected in such hoards. “Kernos” and “Hermes/No sign”. He very much thinks this is a ground-breaking observation and is probably working diligently on it now. These notable absences are vital to my own work on the Rome-Pontic times. See my observation viz a viz “Hermes/No Sign” in the Prokopov and DeCallatay paper above DeCallatay, F.,” More than it would seem: The use of coinage by the Romans in late Hellenistic Asia Minor (133-63 BC)”. American Journal of Numismatics 23 2011. Comments on the New Styles as a proxy Roman coinage-(Giovannini above), Makes another conflation: this time with the “Star between Two Crescents” and the “Two Ears of Corn” controversial issue. Makes unwise dating assumptions based on work by Jorge W. Muller that are not supported by the non-appearance of Muller’s 1991 (see above) advertised promised publication. Still a serious, interesting read. DeCallatay, F.,” A Tetradrachm with the legend ΘΡΑΚΩΝ overstruck on an Athenian stephanephoros tetradrachm of ΑΠΕΛΛΙΚΩΝ−ΓΟΡΓΙΑΣ (88/7 BC) and its consequences for the Thasian type coinage”. HPAKΛEOYΣ ΣΩTHPOΣ ΘAΣIΩN. Studia in honorem Iliae Prokopov sexagenario ab amicis et discipulis dedicata. 2012 This paper shows the importance of the modern and accepted dating of the New Style influencing other coinages this time through being overstruck by a rare type of Thasian imitation showing that it to be much later than previously thought. Has references to other Thasos over Athens overstrikes. Ballesteros-Pastor, Luis, “The meeting between Marius and Mithradates and the Pontic policy in Cappadocia” Cedrus: the Journal of MCRI. Cedrus II 2014 Gaius Marius gets little mention in the Rome–Pontic times but his meeting with Mithradates and the Cappadocian problems are discussed here. De Luca, Federico. ”I Numeri Svelati” Associazone Culturale Italia Numismatica Nummus et Historia XXIX 2015 Are some of the letter combinations found on some Greek coins numbers rather than abbreviated magistrate names? Federico De Luca thinks so and demonstrates his theory in examples across a range of Greek city states including Athenian New Styles. His theory on current evidence is not provable and seems to me unlikely but makes a reasoned argument based on Greek numbering systems which by multiplying the amphora control with the second control is claimed to give the amount of drachm equivalents minted for that type within an issue. His ideas for some of the early catalogue seem unlikely where the monograms are complex, confusing and show many variations within a type. His strongest is in the middle catalogue where the number of second controls are limited. Two demonstrations using “Anchor & Star” and “Helios in Quadriga” had more new obverses than in NSSCA which on examination proved not to be the case. Duyrat, Frederique,” Wealth and Warfare. The archaeology of money in ancient Syria.” ANS Numismatic Studies 34 2016 As far as the New Styles are concerned nothing new appears to have come to light. The observation that earlier New Styles are found with late Seleucids is still valid, (Thompson NSSCA, Hoover and MacDonald, above), pointing to a possible cessation of contemporary New Styles into Syria. Meadows, Andrew, “TYPOI. Greek and Roman Coins Seen Through Their Images Noble Issuers, Humble Users? (Proceedings of the International Conference Organized by the Belgian and French Schools at Athens, 26-28 September 2012) -The Great Transformation. Civic coin design in the Second Century BC. 2018 One of the types included in this survey is the famous wreathed coinages of which, Athens seems pre-eminent because of its longevity. Its origins might be due to a renewed awareness of its position emboldened by its awards from the Romans of important territory. The Panathenaic festival’s and other international events gained importance whilst the coins became international once again, in nature. A fascinating paper with lots of references. Nisbet, John…………………………. academia.edu 2013 to present Various papers on my academia.edu page as an amateur private researcher concerning the Athenian New Style coinages with emphasis on the “Rome-Pontic” times as viewed, mainly, through the symbols. Along with other aspects I have twice produced a revised. (from Morkholm), “Rome-Pontic” chronology. Two of the papers are from a coin collector’s point of view: one on the actions by the British Museum enforcing UNESCO 1970 whilst ignoring their purchases between 1970 and 2015, the second of my journey into the New Style coinage of Athens. Papers are from earliest to latest and are updated and corrected as necessary from time to time. Aetolia-Roma: The coins. Problem solved? An analysis of an imitation New Style tetradrachm type. Ares? Its importance to the Rome-Pontic era and attribution. Headdress of Iset: who wears the crown? Mithradates in Paris and London Roma and Roma & Nike: a one year's wonder? The Athenian New Style Rome-Pontic Chronology 2013 The British Museum, UNESCO 1970, coin collectors and me From coin collecting to numismatist Roma & Nike: who deserves the crown? Two Ears of Corn: the key to who coined the O Demos imitation. Some new coin types in the early Athens New Style silver coinage Headdress of Iset-Revisited Sources for research on the New Style coinage of Athens with comments A New Rome-Pontic Athenian New Style Chronology Bellinger and the Rome-Pontic Chronology The Athenian New Style Rome—Pontic Coins The coins of the pro-Roman magistrates Xenocles and Harmoxenos Original New Style List New coin types in the Athens New Style Coinage Thompson Early Catalogue: Bust of Helios New coin types in the Athens New Style Coinage Thompson Early Catalogue: Cicada New coin types in the Athens New Style Coinage Thompson Early Catalogue: Nike driving Quadriga New coin types in the Athens New Style Coinage Thompson Early Catalogue: Forepart of Bridled Horse New coin types in the Athens New Style Coinage Thompson Early Catalogue: Thyrsos New coin types in the Athens New Style Coinage Thompson Early Catalogue: Two Serpents Ear flap symbols on the Athens New Style silver coinage: Is the local sequence correct? The Odyssey of the Poggio Picenze Hoard IGCH 2056 Copies of the New Style. The pointless pursuit of Numismatical knowledge-an update on the Poggio Picenze Hoard IGCH 2056 The NewStyle Athens problem 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 From my academia.edu page. Notice NO NEW sources for ages! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Snible Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) @NewStyleKing thanks for this table. For the gorgon head, you have 99/8 BC. CNG is using 97/6 BC. I have seen other auction houses saying 98/7 BC. Why the discrepancy? I have been using 98/7 BC for the gorgon head. I know the amphora letters are the lunar months. Is it reasonable to use http://astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases-0099.html to convert the Attic months into our system? So a gorgon head of month M (Skirophorion) would be June 13 - July 13, 97 BC (assuming the dating is 98/7 BC), or June 23 - July 23, 98 BC (assuming the dating is 99/8 BC)? Edited November 15, 2022 by Ed Snible typo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 In truth nothing is set in stone! The amphora letters are Athenian months. I'm not a calanderic scholar and sums like that make my head explode, sorry! I unilaterally decided to shift the Gorgon and Pegasos into the positions previously by coiled serpent and Winged Agon, cos of their implied Mithradatic connections and higher obverse die counts.. What I call the Rome-Pontic times where the influence of the internal political troubles of Athens becomes manifest in possible NewStyle symbols....an old observation ignored by Thompson latterly to support her High chronology which sowed the seeds of disaster! Lets put in order The King Mithradates/Aristion issue.......the final controversial issue! The Appelikon issue...Griffin.....the badge of his home Teos.....the thief of books! Bad strategos a known entity of the Rome-Pontic times! Roma? Roma + Nike.....if it is Roma, what is it signalling? A Roman victory of some sort...Social wars, in Macedonia, a festival? But at this time is so obviously political! a pair of magistrates issuing 3 issues! Close together, one being a Roma type, one being a Navel type with a very large obverse die count...one apparently non controversial! with some obverse die transference fit them together in a tight sequence, think 2 issues in one year(decallatay).... ? its not simple....but exact dating eludes us and always has! Did the slave revolt exist? If so when? Is the very large Caps of dioscuri obverse die count signal a huge internal need? The GOLD NewStyle, like other times of stress gold was only produced in emergencies.....Gold NewStyles exist with the Pontic symbol! The Pontic symbol is purely an Athenian construct of TWO crescents framing a star. Aristion, a known entity on the earlier Pegasos issue...alluding to Mithradates mythic origins?....the same Aristion who died at the Acropolis during the Roman siege? Surely! When and with what did the NewStyle restart? Where was the pseudo-NewStyles minted? and when? Now tell me NewStyles are boring...cross your heart and hope to have a OLDSTYLE be as controversial and interesting! Maybe one coin to be discovered has the link....maybe the King Mithradatic NewStyle with symbol removed and replaced with Headdress of Isis that I have made such a fuss about IS THE KEY! ....to such thunderous silence! I am constantly on the look-out for obverse die links, I challenge any old style fanatique luck with that! That's all folks! I know most coin collectors are only that.......coin collectors, I described them in a note and wondered about their secret pleasures in purely ownership and not research...a mystery to me.! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Snible Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 @NewStyleKing I speculate that the "Caps of the Dioscouri" type also relates to Mithradates. He used it on his own coins, e.g. https://www.biddr.com/auctions/romanumismatics/browse?a=707&l=746978 . I also believe the "Caps of the Dioscouri" don't represent the caps of Castor and Pollux, but instead represent the two comets of Mithradates, the same two comets on his horsehead types, e.g. https://coinweek.com/ancient-coins/the-ancient-coins-of-mithridates/ . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 Caps of Dioscuri are older than that! If they were purely Mithradatic then the NewStyle of 154/3 cannot be related. Also I believe its a common symbol throughout hellenistic coinage. Caps, stars, twins of.....If indeed they are comets! Some think that the "comet" is a taenia! The king of Armenia, Tigranes the great, definitely had a comet on one of his tetradrachms...very rare. The Pontic symbol on Athenian coins, as I said had double crescents with star within! Symbolic of the one star at his birth and one at his coronation? Why the Athenians were so enamoured is anybody's guess! The Pontic symbol is on Mithradates i's coins! It's interesting that the symbol appears on Ae's of allied states too...not often but often enough. I once had a list...long gone! Now if someone else would like to trawl.....Pontic symbol on coins to see what comes up! I lowered the placing of pegasos and gorgan to give the symbols more time to penetrate the Athenians' consciousness. Within the bounds of caps of Dioscuri and the King Mithradates issue there is room for displacement cos I am looking for onverse die transferences that can relate coins' minting order. No luck so far. My most important fixation is with the symbol Headdress of Isis...as in Mithradates in Paris and London based on Ashtons work on Rhodian coinage and my extending it to dated Ephesian cistaphori! Of Dr Mullers chronology. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) Both NewStyles Caps of Dioscuri. BELOW c 154/3 BC TOP c 99/8 BC Edited November 15, 2022 by NewStyleKing 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted November 15, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted November 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Ed Snible said: @NewStyleKing I speculate that the "Caps of the Dioscouri" type also relates to Mithradates. He used it on his own coins, e.g. https://www.biddr.com/auctions/romanumismatics/browse?a=707&l=746978 . I also believe the "Caps of the Dioscouri" don't represent the caps of Castor and Pollux, but instead represent the two comets of Mithradates, the same two comets on his horsehead types, e.g. https://coinweek.com/ancient-coins/the-ancient-coins-of-mithridates/ . Interesting. I debated a few months ago on a bronze with two stars, minted during the time of Mithradates VI, from Kolchis. I turned it down because, after some research, the Caps of the Dioscuri seemed the most likely explanation. I did pick up this coin, minted some time earlier. It has also been explained as the dioscuri (who were known back then), but I'm not so sure. Halley's Comet appeared in roughly 316 BCE and ancient sources (both Greek and Chinese) mention a big comet that appeared July-December 303 BCE. One "stretch" could be that Lysimachos - who likely controlled Pergamon when this was minted - achieved his greatest successes in 315 and 302 BCE, and both were preceded by comets. Lysimachos' own tets often include a single star as a control mark, though no one has seemed to give it much thought. I should probably write a post dedicated to this coin, rather than forking your own discussion. 🙂 Mysia. Pergamon. Civic Issue Æ11 / Stars 310-282 BCE 9.94mm 1.07g Obverse: Helmeted head of Athena right Reverse: Two six-pointed stars side-by-side; Θ above, ΠEPΓ below SNG France 1587; SNG Copenhagen 325 Ex Gorny & Mosch Auction 170 (13 October 2008), lot 3214 (part) Ex Marc Breitsprecher 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) Fork away! The article is Ramsey on the Mithradatic comet coins...it's on the web somewhere...probably got a copy somewhere! Where ,if they are related, the 2 divine ( Syros) Kyberoi fit in I don't know. We need a sad old scholar! Edited November 15, 2022 by NewStyleKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwerpen2306 Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 here is mine, thompson 489, 156/155 BC 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted November 15, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted November 15, 2022 1 hour ago, NewStyleKing said: Fork away! The article is Ramsey on the Mithradatic comet coins...it's on the web somewhere...probably got a copy somewhere! Where ,if they are related, the 2 divine ( Syros) Kyberoi fit in I don't know. We need a sad old scholar! While I certainly agree that Mithradates VI invoked comets on his coins - notably his well-known tets, I tend to disagree that those specifically depicting helmets with stars over the top aren't depicting the dioscuri. These images are virtually identical to other depictions of the caps of the dioscuri - such as the New Styles you showed There's considerable evidence for religious use of the dioscuri during this period One such mithradatic coin comes from Kolchis, which has long been associated with the dioscuri It's possible, of course, that Mithradates VI enjoyed a double-entendre of the dioscuri + the convenient comets. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 15, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) antwerpen2306 That is a nice example. Often they are dug up as part of a hoard in Bulgaria containing other coins of the "over-represented" group. Eagle on thunderbolt, Prow, Tripod. They entered Bulgaria and were seemingly buried much later after prolonged use. The Romans paying Celtic type mercenaries tend to be blamed! What was going on in the mid-120's BC for such a large influx of NewStyles...at the Romans command! PS where did you get that date from! Even Andrew Meadows wrote the new dates in his "New Style" Thasos Hoard paper. Read that for the dates and chronology....on academia.edu under Meadows....free! Edited November 15, 2022 by NewStyleKing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapphnwn Posted November 15, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) Athens Ar tetradrachm "New Style" 153-152 BC Obv, Helmeted head of Athena right Rv Owl standing slightly to right on tipped amphora head facing Thompson 69a HGC 1602 16.50 grms 32 mm Photo by W. Hansen I bought this coin back in 1988. I remember after buying the coin reading a number of articles debating the chronology of this interesting series. I believe these are listed above in @NewStyleKing list. The problem for me is that while I agreed with the arguments put forward supporting the "low chronology" it did not give me a precise date for my coin. As such I think I was off by 3-4 years for some time. One thing though after reading all the debate I came to the realization that none of this would have happened had it not been for the book written by Thompson. Thus when I examine the coinage of Alexander the Great I always feel grateful for the work done by Martin Price. Edited November 16, 2022 by kapphnwn 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisimo Posted November 16, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) Many thanks @NewStyleKing! You have provided much new information for me to read through and study. This has been a good thread! Edited November 16, 2022 by Curtisimo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted November 16, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 16, 2022 The FIRST control, the first of the first! From a hoard that appeared in Germany and dispersed via mainly German dealers! In the good 'ol days! The Cicada can be on the Right hand side and I have published that with a few examples. New coin types in the Athens New Style Coinage Thompson Early Catalogue: Cicada on my academia.edu post above...with a new obverse! Athens New Style Tetradrachm c153/2 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 34.2mm 16.80 g Thompson issue 12 Thompson catalogue : Obs 66 : Rev NEW Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month letter A 2 magistrates monograms in both fields LF symbol : Cicada All within a surrounding olive wreath 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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