A New Cast Fake: Just some questions about the etiquette of sharing when there's one at auction (probably about to be withdrawn)...

[Curtis JJ]

Background: I've recently noticed four examples of an apparent cast fake, twice in major auctions (one still open now, the other was in May), and twice on RPC (including the "digital plate coin," also from previous auctions, one in 2010, one a few months ago). I'm sure they're all inadvertent and don't blame anyone for letting one slip through.

Notification: I've informed RPC (too soon to respond), and the current auctioneer (my contact wrote back to concur, but it may take 1-2 days for the cataloger to examine & withdraw it). (I've saved photos and weights/diameters.)

Concerns: More examples will no doubt be coming: They're appearing quickly, three this year that I've noticed (the fourth back in 2010). I can't find any reports on Forum or ForgeryNetwork. 

If there wasn't one at auction, I'd just post the images. But, the auctioneer is responding and no one besides the forger is being dishonest or incompetent, so I don't want to unnecessarily offend or disrupt.

Questions: When and how does one go about sharing in that kind of situation? 

I could, for instance, wait until the coin in question has been withdrawn. And/or identify the others, but not the one currently up. And/or I could share all the images and weights but not identify any sellers.... Or share somewhere more task-specific, like Coin Forgery Discussion List (or whatever we're using these days...)

Many thanks in advance.

[robinjojo]

It seems to me that, with the auction house agreeing that the coin in question is a fake and is in the process of withdrawing it from the catalog, you are within your rights to post the coin, especially since you have a strong case that it is a fake.  I think that a consensus, based on the posting the coin, is a fake, could stem any further appearances of it at auctions and online retail sites. 

Putting your case forward and letting others provide their input would be a service to the ancient coin collecting community.

[John Conduitt]

3 minutes ago, robinjojo said:

It seems to me that, with the auction house agreeing that the coin in question is a fake and is in the process of withdrawing it from the catalog, you are within your rights to post the coin, especially since you have a strong case that it is a fake.  I think that a consensus, based on the posting the coin, is a fake, could stem any further appearances of it at auctions and online retail sites. 

Putting your case forward and letting others provide their input would be a service to the ancient coin collecting community.

Yes this happens regularly. There's no problem posting fake coins offered by reputable auction houses, since they will withdraw it. Every auction house inadvertently sells fakes, so this is good promotion for them taking action. They also take action even after the coin has been sold.

[DonnaML]

I agree that it would be a service to everyone to post about these fakes publicly as soon as possible. For more permanent reference, the best place to report is probably the Fake Coin Reports at forumancientcoins.com. See https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/

[Curtis JJ]

Thanks @DonnaML, @John Conduitt and @robinjojo -- I went ahead an made a Forum Fake Report: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pid=22444

I found some other sales of the same types (and multiple records of the same "coins"). Personally, I didn't think these were that convincing (maybe a couple of them could be, if you didn't see any of the others).

Unfortunately most of these have sold for well over $1,000.

One sold for 4,500 GBP + fees ( > $6,300 !). Of course, it's entirely possible that this could be the original, genuine coin, and the others cast copies of it.

Only one collection provenance was reported (Schøyen, a respectable scholarly collection), but acquired from a 2012 sale with no provenance.

Cleopatra VII Thea Notera, struck in Tripolis, dated RY 2 (of Cleopatra in Phoenicia, 36/5 BC). RPC I 4510 Six examples below (some sold multiple times, two cited in RPC): Dates of sales: 2005, 2010 (x2), 2012, 2022 (x3); Sources: NAC (x2), CNG (x3), Naville, Oslo Myntgalleri, RPC (x2); Reported weights: 9.26g, 9.66g, 9.78g, 9.82g, 9.99g, 10.10g; Reported diameters: 20mm. 29 Aug 2022: RPC has been informed (via website) and one auctioneer, who I believe is in process of withdrawing before auction. All appear to be from the same set of casts but with different false patinas applied. There appear to be others of this same type (RPC 5410 var.) but from slightly different or modified casts.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Curtis JJ