Egyptian scarabs : date and interpretation

[antwerpen2306]

@Tejas very beautiful nebty scarab, ou are me making jealous😀, i hope to come back on it later, because I  have a surgical operation end of this month.

For your sheshonq scarab, my problem is the Ra. As god, his sign is always the first, ever in the names of the kings. As you say, the spacing is very important for the Egyptians, imo the put the most important god Ra first.

The reading of a scarab inscription is as easy as difficult. often there is more than one interpretation possible, I think it is always the same problem often for us.

Thank you and we'll chat later. It is very interesting.

[Tejas]

I wish you all the best for your operation. Lets chat again afterwards.

[Finn235]

So I stumbled into these two as part of a group lot and to be honest I am way out of my element here. All I've worked out is that these are blue faience but date and whether they are even authentic is a mystery to me. Anyone care to lend a helping hand?

#1

 

#2

 

Both are holed all the way through, I assume to be used as a necklace

 

Any help appreciated! I'm leaning toward these being modern creations based on some awfully similar pieces being listed on Etsy, but want to confirm first!

Edited September 11, 2023 by Finn235

[DonnaML]

7 hours ago, Finn235 said:

So I stumbled into these two as part of a group lot and to be honest I am way out of my element here. All I've worked out is that these are blue faience but date and whether they are even authentic is a mystery to me. Anyone care to lend a helping hand?

#1

 

#2

 

Both are holed all the way through, I assume to be used as a necklace

 

Any help appreciated! I'm leaning toward these being modern creations based on some awfully similar pieces being listed on Etsy, but want to confirm first!

What's their size? Kind of big, aren't they? And I don't see any of the usual hieroglyphs or other designs carved on the bottoms. All I can say is that they don't look very much like the genuine scarabs that I've purchased (see my antiquities thread) or that I've seen. 

See these links discussing fake scarabs, etc.

http://www.seal-collector.de/faked-or-authentic.html

https://www.collector-antiquities.com/real-or-fake/fake-egyptian/fake-scarabs.html

https://www.collector-antiquities.com/real-or-fake/fake-egyptian/fake-scarabs/scarab-forgeries-page-2.html

https://www.collector-antiquities.com/real-or-fake/fake-egyptian/fake-scarabs-section-2.html

https://www.collector-antiquities.com/real-or-fake/fake-egyptian/fake-scarabs-section-3.html

[Tejas]

I wonder if the scarabs are really made of fayence. Fayence is a technique, by which sand is mixed with other materials, which is then burned in a mold. I don‘t think that fayence would be carved after it has been burned. Hence, I think your scarabs may be carved from steatite, which was then glazed. This technique was used to imitate the more complicated and expensive fayence technique.

The hieroglyphs have been carved carelessly, including the signs of Neb (=lord, all and everything) and possibly Horus. Personally, I don‘t think that careless carving is necessarily a sign that a scarab is fake. Also, large size is not a sign that a scarab is fake in my view. It is true that most scarabs measure about 1.2 to 1.8 cm, but there are also many authentic exemplars that are bigger and smaller than this. 

Often scarabs have been made in large numbers to be part of jewellery. I think it is a myth that every scarab had great religious significance (much like many people today wear a cross without being devout Christians). 

However, a big scarab (longer than 2 cm) with careless carving is probably suspicious. Bigger scarabs with hieroglyphs were probably meant to be read, i.e. should display readible hieroglyphs.

It would be interesting to know the measurements of the two scarabs. Also the provenance is key. What do you know about the seller and previous owners? Indeed, I think with scarabs, it is key to buy them only from reputable sources (which is of course not a guarantee of authenticity, but it minimizes the risk of ending up with a fake).

Edited September 12, 2023 by Tejas

[Tejas]

To give you an idea how a scarab made of Fayence looks like:

 

[wendy west]

This bracelet belonged to my husbands great aunt.  From all i've read about scarabs, I'm assuming they are fakes.  However, given that she was incredibly wealthy and that it's been squirreled away for the past 60 years, just thought I'd run it by your group.  I've worked out, I think, that the caratouch is that of Amenhotep 3 - and the legs seems to match that era. And I read that " in hieroglyphs, the word sovereign(ity) is written with two crocodiles."  Any insight would be much appreciated.

[Tejas]

These scarabs are quite impressive. 

I think your reading is correct. The second scarab shows the throne name of Amenhotep III in the cartouche. As so often we have a case of honorific transposition, meaning that Ra was placed in front, but is not read first. Instead, the reading is: Neb (meaning lord or possessor) of the Ma'at of Ra, which is a variant of the throne name of Amenhotep III

But it gets better. The three walking-stick-kind-of-hieroglyphs read: heqa heqau, which means ruler of rulers. The line means land (ta) and the sun disc stands for Ra. So we (probably) read. 

Neb Ma'at Ra - heqa heqau - ta Ra = Neb Ma'at Ra, ruler of rulers of the land of Ra. 

I have never seen the epithet heqa heqau as part of the throne name of Amenhotep III, but it is part of a variant of his Horus name and was very plausbly also combined with his throne name.

If this is a modern fake, it is a pretty elaborate one that required substantial knowledge of hieroglyphs and of the reign of Amenhotep III. 

Of course, I cannot be certain at all and you will have to show the scarabs to an expert, who can examine them in hand. However, I believe there is a good chance that the scarabs are ancient and were deliberately selected as a matching pair for this "modern" bracelet.

If they are ancient, I would not recommend wearing the bracelet, because the scarabs can easily be damaged.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Tejas