seth77

23 minutes ago, maridvnvm said:

Just processing another coin. It turns out I bought this one 20 years ago this week.

Florian Antoninianus

Obv:– IMP C M AN FLORIANVS AVG, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:– VIRTVS AVGVSTI, Emperor advancing right, holding a shield and spear, treading down captive.
Minted in Lugdunum (IIII in exe) Emission 3 Officina 4, from September to October A.D. 276
Reference:– Cohen 107. Bastien 150. RIC 16 Bust type C

Great silvering still present.

I'm actually very glad you showed it here @Marsyas Mike. That's a coin that I'd very much like to add myself as the final stage of the local mint operation.

32 minutes ago, Marsyas Mike said:

Very interesting and informative post @seth77 and @Orange Julius.  A while back I got one of these minted for Herennius Etruscus.  Mine is pretty ugly, but because of condition - it is actually pretty nice in terms of artistry and strike/flan, in my opinion.  Not so martial this time - a founders' scene with priest and oxen:

Herennius Etruscus  Æ 25 Rhesaena, Mesopotamia  (c. 249-251 A.D.) [ΓΑΙ Μ]ЄϹ ЄΡ ЄΤΡΟΥϹΚΙΛΛ[ΙΟϹ ΔЄΚΙΟϹ ϹЄΒ], laureate, draped and cuirassed bust r. /  ϹЄΠ ΚΟΛ ΡΗϹΑΙΝΗϹΙωΝ L III P, priest holding staff plowing with two oxen right | eagle on palm with wreath in beak above | river god Chaboras swimming in exergue RPC IX 1593; Castelin 178-180. (12.24 grams / 25 x 24 mm) eBay Nov. 2018  

Die-Match Obverse: Coin no. 1 of RPC IX 1593 Bibliothèque nationale de France Reference 2194; Castelin 180 pl. XIII

Die-Match Reverse: DEMOS Auction 8; Lot 650; 19.03.2022

 

  

That is a pretty amazing coin. For starters, Decius seems to have minted the most at Rhesaena in it's c. 45 years of colonial coinage. But your coin has Etruscus as Augustus, which is from May 251 until Abrittus that summer when both Augusti fell in battle. The fact that the short period at the end of the reign of Decius is so well represented and the large number of emissions noted in RPC under Decius could mean that the mint struck continuously during these 2 years and not just then and there as it had happened at the beginning. 

And while the reverse does focus on the foundation of the town by Severus in 197, its original purpose as a military base is recorded in the reverse legend -- L III P is Legion III Parthica. 

I think the most eastern mints known to have minted for the Roman Empire were Singara and Nisibis. Although there are some distinctly Mesopotamian minimi that sometime pop up at biddr auctions, sometimes lumped together with the small Carrhae coins, but that I am not sure are actually from Carrhae and not somewhere else in the neighborhood.

11 minutes ago, Orange Julius said:

Oooh great post. I have one of these and although ugly, find them interesting. On my coin, you can just read “ANT…” on the reverse legend. Mine’s a beefy little coin at 4.6 grams. This is a great example of when not to clean a coin. This coin is black. Without the dirt, you wouldn’t be able to see much without it in hand and a ton of light. Some coins are better with a little grime.

The below information is from the FORVM listing for my coin and a few other listings. I bought this one from eBay for about $4 total. 

Caracalla, 28 January 198 - 8 April 217 A.D., Rhesaena, Mesopotamia

This type with an eagle at the base of the vexillum on the reverse is unpublished in the many references examined by Forum. There are similar types and a few examples in the references that could have the eagle on the reverse (but not the same dies) but are off-center or worn. 

Rhesaena became a colony during the reign of Septimius Severus, when the Legio III Parthica was settled there. 

RP59266. Bronze AE 17, apparently unpublished; Castelin -, BMC Arabia -, SNG Cop -, SNG UK -, SNG Leipzig -, SNG Righetti -, Lindgren -, aF, Rhesaena (Ra's al-'Ayn, Syria) mint, weight 4.571g, maximum diameter 16.7mm, die axis 0o, obverse [...] ANT[...], laureate head right, eagle right below; reverse vexillum, eagle below, III - C (reversed) / P (reversed) - S across field; extremely rare. 

Rhesaena, in the Roman province Mesopotamia Secunda, became a colony during the reign of Septimius Severus, when the Legio III Parthica was settled there. Rhesaena was an important town in the far north of Mesopotamia, on the way from Carrhae to Nicephorium, about eighty miles from Nisibis and forty from Dara, near the sources of the Chaboras (Khabur) River. Today, it is Ra's al-'Ayn, Syria. Gordian III fought the Persians nearby in 243, at the battle of Resaena. The Notitia dignitatum (ed. Boecking, I, 400) lists it under the jurisdiction of the Dux of Osrhoene. Hierocles (Synecdemus, 714, 3) also locates it in Osrhoene but it was renamed Theodosiopolis. It was fortified by Justinian. In 1393, it was nearly destroyed by Tamerlane's troops

Note: Legio III Pia was comprised of approximately 3,500 troops when created in Rheseana by Septimius Severus for the Parthian Campaign of 197-199. The bull was the legion mascot and the city was granted colonial status.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?param=59266q00.jpg&vpar=2748&zpg=64320&fld=https://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins2/

Mine was a grand total of 2EUR, probably best spent 2EUR in the history of people spending 2EUR on things.

Also, I think there was a mixup: the bull was on the vexilla of LIII Gallica, LIII Parthica Severiana had the centaur as its symbol. This is why the centaur archer is on the reverse of the coins of Elagabal.

1 hour ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

Very interesting!  I found it enjoyable to learn about the city.

Glad you liked it. I also ended up seeing these weirdos when looking for Mesopotamian mints that struck for Alexander as Caesar. And while the coinage for Caracalla can be seen in better shape, the absurd pike-holding Elagabal is one of the mid to better specs for the type. 

Rhesaena gains importance as the garrison of the Legio III Parthica Severiana, after c. 197, when Severus annexed Mesopotamia. Coinage here starts very likely around 215, in anticipation of Caracalla's eastern campaign.

The base metal is a rather distinct coinage, that looks like war money from the start and is dedicated to the Legio:


Caracalla
AE18mm 5.32g orichalcum(?) unit, c. 215-17
[...] ANTW - NINOC; laureate head right, supported by eagle with spread wings
[L]EG - III / P - S (reverse); in center field vexillum with Δ on banner

But then under Elagabal, things really get weird:


Elagabal
AE23mm 6.19g copper unit, c. 218-222
[...] laureate, draped an cuirassed bust right seen from back, holding boar-hunting spear(?)
Right field: Sagittarius running right, about to shoot arrow; left field: veiled Tyche(?) wearing polos; in the background center: two military standards

This type in a few variations is present in RPC VI 7899-7904 (temporary), although with some errors -- most visibly the bust type that seems to be generally seen from the back and certainly always cuirassed beneath the drapery. There is an old study on these from K.O. Castelin - The coinage of Rhesaena in Mesopotamia from 1946, but it seems rather dated so I am not going to reference it as a catalog. It is still an interesting read for the background of the town itself, it's similarity to its more famous sibling of Dura-Europos and its connection to the copper mines of Arghana Maden, which probably provided the metal for Rhesaena's coins including these two specs.

But the most interesting stuff here is the oversized 'boar spear' that Elagabal seems to be holding, that looks nothing at all like any Roman weapon but rather some pike from fantasy LARPing.

In the OP I mentioned the fact that the client king had limited sovereignty, with full autonomy in internal politics but owed allegiance to Rome externally. He also had coining rights outside Commagene and his coinage follows the Roman coinage in Syria in style and metrics.

One of the mints that struck these 'Syrian' coins was Anemurium in Cilicia Trachaea, an area completely separated from Commagene, a town that was given to Antiochus in 38 by Caligula. The coins minted here for Antiochus are very 'Hellenistic' in appearance and rather scarce, so I'm really glad I could win one:

AE26mm 11.69g orichalcum dupondius(?) minted ca. 48-9.
ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ·ΜΕΓΑΣ·ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΣ ΕΠΙΦΑΝΗΣ; diademed and draped bust of Antiochos IV, r.
ΑΝ[ΕΜΟΥΡΙΕΩΝ] - [L ΙΒ] (in field); Artemis standing, right, with bow, and drawing arrow from quiver.
RPC I 3705;

The local coinage of Anemurium starts with these issues for the Roman client king of Commagene, who received the town together with other territories in Cilicia Trachaea and Lycaonia.

'Antiochus received territory in Cilicia Tracheia and Lycaonia, separated from Commagene by Cilicia Pedias. Dio (59.8.2) tells us that he was given [....] and his rule seems to have extended along the coast from Elaeussa to the border of Pamphylia; he minted coins for Anemurium, Celenderis, Corycus, Sebaste and Selinus. His possessions in the interior of Cilicia Tracheia cannot be determined.' (A..A. Barrett - Sohaemus, King of Emesa and Sophene, The American Journal of Philology, Vol. 98, No. 2 (Summer, 1977), pp. 153-159 (7 pages) p. 157).

It's interesting for a client king to be given territories outside his nominal kingdom, but Antiochus was not a singular case, as remarked by A.A. Barrett with Sohaemus and others (pp. 157-8).

This coinage was struck on beveled flans, similar to the early coinage of Samosata in Commagene proper, possibly as part of an operation by mint-masters from Antioch.

Hey, I dont look like that.

At least a very awkward obverse-reverse pairing: that Constantine II obverse with the Concordia reverse reminds me of that Diocletian post-reform follis paired with a Jovian AE1 reverse, which is possibly also a product of this 'workshop'.

Archon Tetronianus for Severus Alexander likely during Alexander's campaign in the East, c. 231:

AE32mm 15.75g brass (orichalcum) multiple assaria
Μ ΑΥΡ ⳞΕΥΗ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟⳞ ΑΥΓ; laureate, draped and cuirassed bust of Severus Alexander, l., seen from rear, holding spear pointing forward and shield
[ΕΠΙ ΤΕΤΡΩΝΙΑΝ] - ΟΥ ΔΟΡΥΛΑΕΩΝ; Cybele seated on throne between two lions, l., holding patera and leaning elbow on tympanum.
A combination of two known types: RPC VI 5722 for obverse and 5720 for reverse.

As far as I know, this coinage is the only mention of a local archon for Dorylaeum, which was basically at this time a town of secondary importance, derived by its positioning on the land route between the East and the Balkans.

Tomis, c. 200 for Geta Caesar:

This is a great post @kirispupis, it instantly reminded me of this little coin with some pretty neat grapes and vine.

Since medievals are also permitted, here are two very interesting 'oboles' from Raoul de Clermont-Nesle as acting Viscount of Chateaudun:

1285/6

1290

The Valentinians and the Theodosians make a very generous numismatic theme, but I am going to add just some stuff that hasnt been already added:

Gratian for his quindecennalia c. 380-2

 

Valentinian II for his decennalia c. 383-5,
      from Alexandria, struck with a die made by a guy who was quasi latilliterate.

Theodosius II c. 425-35 from a unrecorded issue of Nicomedia lacking any officina mark:

Valentinian III from Cyzicus c. 425-35, but likely 425 for the elevation of Val. III as Augustus in the West under Eastern auspices:

1 hour ago, Ryro said:

Yep. I call bullshit. Nobody, especially a dealer... led alone two dealers, told this guy that was Cleopatra VII. I don't know why he would lie about it on a forum filled with ancient coin collectors, but it's weird. 

Also, he didn't even show appreciation for the pro helping him identify his shwaggy coins. He just said how disappointed he was. Good parenting shows.

It could've been worse: I was called names on a Facebook group some time ago for identifying a person's coin as something else than his pipe dream. Being taken for granted is not cool, but being insulted and verbally abused by illiterate would-be scammers testing the water is a few steps lower on the ladder to the bottomless pit of insanity that social media often can be. 

Had the biggest crush on FF 😍 (the coins are not bad either).

32 minutes ago, expat said:

What a fascinating thread. It now has me wondering what the marks are under the bust of this one. Until I read your post I didn´t realise they might have significance. Any insight will be very welcome.

Herrenia Etruscilla, wife of Trajan Decius. 249-251 AD.
AR Antoninianus
Obverse: HER ETRVSCILLA AVG. Diademed and draped bust right on crescent.
Reverse: PVDICITIA AVG. Pudicitia seated left holding transverse sceptre and drawing veil from her face.
RIC IV 59b. Hunter 5; RSC 19
 Rome mint, A.D. 250.  3,8 g – 20,5 mm

 

Is that a shadowy dot there, that is what you mean?

If Rome mint, the dot is probably an optical illusion, since Rome did not use this marking system.

It seems like the hairstyle is not really helpful for a chronology of Etruscilla coinage at Antioch, unlike in the case of the coinage for Faustina. And by recycling older types and copying the current coinage of Rome, Antioch seems to not have had an individual and coherent Imperial coinage. At the same time the city was also minting the S-C D-E Greek Imperial coinage: the billon tetradrachms and AEs.

These coins of Herennia Etruscilla from Antioch are mentioned briefly in RIC IV-3, for both regimes of Traianus Decius and Trebonianus Gallus. There is not much detail on how to separate the coins minted under Decius from those minted under Gallus, so perhaps this post might help a bit in this problem:

AR24mm 5.03g antoninianus minted at Antioch ca. mid 251 to later.
HER ETRVSCILLA AVG; draped bust right, wearing stephane, set on crescent; hairstyle arranged vertically
PVDICITIA AVG, Pudicitia seated left, drawing veil from face and holding transverse scepter.
Dot in exergue
cf. RIC IV-3 65a (Antioch)

At a certain point, probably around 250, the Imperial mint at Antioch starts marking the officinae involved in the production of silver-billon antoninianii. There are two types of markings recorded -- either by Roman numerals or dots, but both usually positioned on the obverse under the bust during that last part of the reign of Decius.

This specimen has a dot on the reverse in the exergue, a highly unusual position for an officina marking on Decian coinage. The marking in the exergue on the reverse would become more prominent during the reigns of Trebonianus Gallus and Volusian (in 252?) -- which indicates that this 'experimental' issue for Etruscilla is at the very least very late in the reign of Decius, possibly past mid 251 (so after the death of Decius), since Gallus did not discontinue the coinage minted for neither Etruscilla nor Hostilian at Antioch (see RIC IV-3 pp.113-119 pp. 155-6). In the case of Etruscilla the coinage might have continued for the rest of the year, even if in small quantities.

RIC has all Etruscilla coinage under Decius (including the coins struck after mid 251) and even so the type is quoted as R(are) -- certainly not rare anymore, but not very common either.

A similar die, with what looks like at least one dot in the exergue was used for a rare coinage for Volusian at Antioch (RIC 233b), dated late 252 to mid 253.

So if one wanted to separate the coinage for Etruscilla minted at Antioch under Decius (perhaps late 250/early 251 to mid 251) from the continuation of the same coinage under the new regime of Trebonianus Gallus (later in 251 to very early 252?), looking for the position of officina markings might be a good starting point.

 

28 minutes ago, Ryro said:

 

Herennius Etruscus

MOESIA,SUPERIOR, Viminacium. As Caesar, AD 249-251. Æ 26mm (11.81 g, 5h). Dated CY 12 (AD 250/1). Bare-headed and cuirassed bust right / Moesia standing facing, head left, hands placed above bull on left and lion on right; AN XII (date) in exergue. Jekov & Hristova 61; Mouchmov 50. VF for type, green patina, 250-251. nearly very fine

 

I think that's Aemilian AN XIV 

Man, I wish they added this leap day to like June or July rather than boring and frigid February.

Tbh I was kind of expecting to see here one of the Hostilians PROVINCIA DACIA that I have seen from Savoca in their Blue weekly auctions.

17 hours ago, robinjojo said:

I think that the war in the Middle East has caused some significant disruption in the flow of coins to the market from Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt and Israel.  In the past Israel has been an important transit point for hoard coins flowing in from the surrounding countries.  I base the observation on the groups that have been presented to me in the past.  The two sources for these coins are gone and I don't know if there are others out there.  The closest to that kind of source is the UAE seller, Zurquieh.  The flow of ancients continues with him, apparently, but where they are coming from is, I am sure, a well guarded secret.  

On the Greek side I have noticed a pronounced drop in the number of pharaonic owls on offer, compared to 2022.  There are still a number of Tigranes II tetradrachms appearing from what must have been a very large hoard that emerged in 2023.  Also, the bronze prutahs of the First Revolt and other Judaic coins remain plentiful on Zurquieh's webpage,  

As far as I can determine, nothing is coming out of Israel since the war began, so how or even if coin hoards from this strife-ridden region enter the supply stream is unknown to me, and really, in perspective, this is a very minor issue compared to the scope of the ongoing tragedy unfolding before us.

 

I have actually noticed different these last few months. In fact Jerusalem/Aelia Capitolina is one of the cities I meant that I see getting high prices regardless of emperor or condition in the auctions I follow. Mints from Judaea, Samaria, the Decapolis etc. seem to be more available now than last summer for instance.

19 minutes ago, ominus1 said:

..i  guess my Medici coins are on a slow boat from Italy...i ain't heard anything since the 18th when they departed the international exchange center....whatever that is...9_9..but it was fairly cheap 🙂

The 18th... century? 🤔

In my case, there are more markets that act completely independent from each other.

1. In the medieval market things went to a standstill for me as early as 2022 or thereabouts. Things that I would like to add in this field are at this point unreachable, not on account of price but mostly of rarity.

2. In the Palaiologan market 2023 was probably the best year for scarce and interesting trachea types, mostly very affordable. My top 2023 post was dedicated to these coins. The overall look of these coins and the difficulty in making attributions if you are not familiar with the types and features of these issues mean that most get offered with minimal or even no attribution at all and most of the time individual research really pays off.

3. In the Greek Imperial market there is great polarization: types and towns that command very high prices in ANY condition and towns and types that are really slept on despite the objective interest, be it mythological or historical. But even in the high-price areas good deals are to be had as much as it was before, especially in the unattributed areas.

4. In the Late Roman market I have been noticing a rise in prices for very common but very high grade material in the last 5 years. The trend has been steadily building and now I add the best-looking common 4th century coins in my watchlist just to see how high would they rise once the auction starts. At the same time, decent condition material continues to be very affordable even for scarce types and under-attributed material where rarities might dwell is readily available at any time.

5. The last 2-3 years I used the weekend auctions on biddr not just as means to follow certain interests but also as a relaxation venue. That means I would have my beers while following the live auctions and decide ad hoc to bid on things that I had previously not researched, if 'cheap'. It was part of a frame of mind everybody here knows too well: the 'let's add stuff to make the shipping fee worth it' approach. This has brought very interesting results but mostly just regular stuff that does not spark joy. How many F to VF- maiorinae from the second half of the 4th century does one need before they become uninteresting?

All-in-all I stand by my observations from 2020/1 onward: what I am after did not jump in prices at all after the covid debacle. In fact it kept mostly in the same nominal ballpark price-wise, which in the situation of high inflation means an actual decrease in price. Regular groceries are up 80-90%, energy bills around 30-50% higher, but when it comes to coins, 100EUR can still command the same good value and interest (if not more) in all categories listed (with the exception of medieval) as in 2020. At least for me.

Some latest swell bargains, none posted before: