Ursus

Baldwin III:

Kingdom of Jerusalem, Baldwin III, BI Denier, 1142–1163 AD, Jerusalem mint. Obv: BALDVINVS REX; cross pattée. Rev: + DE IERVSALEM; Tower of David. 16mm, 0.97g. Ref: CCS 21.

Fine coin!

I have the same reverse type minted for Licinius in London under Constantine, back when the two were still buddies:

Licinius I, Roman Empire, AE2, 313–314 AD, London mint. Obv: IMP LICINIVS PF AVG; bust of Licinius I, laureate, cuirassed, r. Rev: GENIO POP ROM; Genius standing l., holding patera in r. hand, cornucopia in l.; in fields, S-F; in exergue, PLN. 21mm, 3.04g. Ref: RIC VII Londinium 3.

On 1/25/2024 at 11:53 AM, ambr0zie said:

What bothers me (very much) is that, not knowing the type and not being aware that this type is only in gold, I would have been tempted to consider this a genuine example, perhaps with some "enhanced engraving" on the obverse. 

I see your point. The lesson here is probably to not buy coins before researching them thoroughly.

23 hours ago, JayAg47 said:

I can definitely see this fooling some novices! especially with the radiating lines on the reverse, since we always tell them as one of the hallmarks of a genuine hand struck coin. 

This is why I am skeptical when it comes to such advice. I remember that in a fun thread back on CoinTalk, @TIF showed some "ancient coins" from a mysterious place called Tiffily in Tiphonia showing an Iguana and a small TIF-monogram. She apparently had struck them with a hammer and some rebar pieces engraved with the help of a dremel. There is no reason to believe that professional forgers can't do the same and thus create forgeries that have all the right cracks and "flow lines."

The best advice to avoid forgeries in my opinion therefore still is "know the coin or know the dealer".

22 hours ago, Hrefn said:

In place of the helmet, the forgery features an Agathodaemon performing a proctological exam.

(Sorry, but once you see it, you can’t unsee it.)

Oh my dear, you're right – I can't unsee it! Thanks for that.

19 hours ago, Deinomenid said:

Here's on from a while ago. The seller said it was  just tooled but  it's so screwed up in a cartoonish way  it may be a straight forgery with an odd double strike attempt to justify. Nothing compared to your ghost owl @Ursus!

That troglodyte Apollo is pure gold. Reminds me of good old Mr. Tooly here:

20 hours ago, Victor_Clark said:

This method has been around for years. Here is a 2007 post from Bruce; who is a chemist and used to be very active on several forums; though I haven't seen him lately.

https://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=654.0

 

here's a book published in 2008 that talks about it (page 49-50)

Interesting information – and thanks for the book recommendation!

As already said in the OP, I don't usually clean coins. My short fling with uncleaned ancients back when I started to collect was less than satisfying. Some later attempts at restoring better coins sometimes worked well and sometimes failed. After these experiences, I consider cleaning coins a different hobby than collecting, and I'm just more drawn to the historical and artistic side of numismatics than to the artisanal process of cleaning and restoring. Furthermore, I have a healthy respect of messing with potentially harmful chemicals...

That said, I read about removing horn silver with sodium thiosulphate here, found out that this substance isn't poisonous, and decided to give it a try. The procedure was simple and the results convincing. I might occasionally do this again in the future but doubt that restoration will become a real hobby for me.

EDIT: In case someone with chemical knowledge reads this: Would sodium thiosulphate also work against bronze disease? If I understand correctly, horn silver is silver chloride (AgCl), and bronze disease is cuprous chloride (CuCl). If sodium thiosulphate dissolves and binds silver chlorides, would it do the same with copper chlorides? I'm asking out of ignorance and because I still have 70g of sodium thiosulphate lying around without much other use for it...

I recently bought these two denarii of Elagabalus, which I think deserve a small write-up:

Elagabalus, Roman Empire, AR denarius, 218–222 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IMP ANTONINVS PIVS AVG; bust of Elagabalus, horned, draped and laureate, r. Rev: SACERD DEI SOLIS ELAGAB; Elagabalus, in Syrian priestly robes, standing right, sacrificing out of patera in right hand over lighted altar, holding upright club in left hand; star in r. field. 18mm, 2.13g. Ref: RIC IV Elagabalus 131.

Elagabalus, Roman Empire, AR denarius, 218–222 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IMP ANTONINVS PIVS AVG; bust of Elagabalus, horned, draped and laureate, r. Rev: INVICTVS SACERDOS AVG; Elagabalus, in Syrian priestly robes, standing left, sacrificing out of patera in r. hand over tripod (?), holding club in l. hand; behind tripod, bull lying down; star in l. field. 18mm, 3.09g. Ref: RIC IV Elagabalus 88b.

1. Why they are interesting

There are a couple of coins that show the eastern cult of the sun god Elagabal that Elagabalus, whose actual name as emperor was Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, tried to introduce in Rome whithout much success apart from getting murdered. My denarii are two of them.

The reverse of my first coin shows the emperor in Syrian priestly garments sacrificing over an altar. The star (or sun?) in the field, which appears on many coins of Elagabalus, deserves special mention. The most common theory is that it is a symbol of the new celestial religion and indicates the emperor's divine status. Most important to me is the reverse legend naming the deity that became synonymous with this emperor. SACERD(OS) DEI SOLIS ELAGAB(ALI) translates as "priest of the sun god Elagabal." The legend thus gives a description of the role in which the emperor is shown here.

My second coin also shows Elagabalus in eastern priestly robes and with a star. This time, he is performing an animal sacrifice. In his left hand, Elagabalus holds a club he has apparently used to kill the bull lying below the brazier to his right. With his right hand, he is holding a patera and pours an offering of the bull's blood into the flames. Coins showing Roman animal sacrifice with so much detail are scarce and, in my eyes, particularly fascinating. Here, the legend "INVICTUS SACERDOS AVG(USTUS)" translates as "unconquered and august priest."

The mysterious "horn" on the emperor's forehead that is visible on the obverse of both coins deserves a special mention. This type of headdress is only known from coins of Elagabalus. It probably had religious significance, and there is a scholarly debate about what this object actually is. One particularly colorful suggestion is to read it as the tip of a bull's penis strapped to Elagabalus' head.

2. The provenance

Recently, the collection of Fritz Taeger (1894–1960) has been dispersed and entered the market. Both coins come from this collection. Fritz Taeger was a well-known German classicist. His scholarly work might deserve merit, his deep involvement with the Nazi regime does not.

Taeger's collection of some 1400 Greek and Roman coins was inherited by his daughter and remained untouched until being sold in November 2013. The auction house (Rhenumis) in my opinion didn't do a spectacular job. It grouped many of the coins, including some true rarities, into large lots. As a consequence, different German dealers currently offer coins from the Taeger collection on MA-Shops, ebay, and other platforms.

I bought another and more spectacular coin from the Taeger collection and will write a bit more about this provenance when I post it here somewhen in the near future.

3. What I did to them

The two coins were bargains: I paid 54€ for the pair, which is very good for these. On the one hand, they were offered as "coins of Caracalla" by a seller clearly not familiar with ancient coins. On the other hand, they looked like this when I got them:

I usually don't clean coins, but here I took the risk. Both coins took a short bath in a solution of thiosulfate, which took care of the horn silver. Thanks to @Roerbakmix for introducing this method to our forum community! I am quite happy with the result and think that both coins were improved by the treatment.

Please post your coins of Elagabalus!

I just saw this coin offered on ebay Germany:

It is a dramatically failed attempt at faking an exceedingly rare gold stater of Pyrrhus of Epirus. There is just so much wrong with it. Take a look at Athena's jaw (an orthodontist's nightmare), the little ghost owl in the left obverse field, or Victory's leg posture that says "I need to go to the loo – urgently"! I believe this is the worst and most comical fake I have seen so far. It gave me a good laugh. Now, I am even tempted to buy it...

For comparison, this authentic example sold at Morton&Eden for more than my mortgage is worth:

Please show me the worst (or funniest) fakes that you have encountered!

This is the book you might want to have a look at. It has numerous plates for weaponry, including shafted weapons, from all periods of Roman history. Spearheads are notoriously hard to attribute, though. With your example, the split socket looks unusal to me, but I am definitely not even close to an expert.

Roman Republic, moneyer: M. Atilius Serranus, AE quadrans, 148 BC, Rome mint. Obv: Head of Hercules r.; behind, three pellets. Rev: Prow r., above, M . ATILI (die break); below, [ROMA]. 17mm, 4.16g. Ref: RRC 214/5a.

Next: quadrans

I have a couple of Valerians, but this one is my favorite. I bought it because of the portrait.

Valerian I, Roman Empire, AR antoninianus, 253 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IMP C P LIC VALERIANVS AVG; bust of Valerian, radiate, draped, cuirassed, r. Rev: APOLINI PROPVG; Apollo, nude except for cloak flying behind, standing r., drawing bow. 22mm, 3,58. Ref: RIC V Valerian 74.

I'm late to the party. My guess would be an akce or a Habbarid damma, see the examples below for reference. There are a lot of different types struck for different rulers. I'm not good at identifying these, but it might be worth checking out the reference pictures on Zeno.

Habbarids of Sind, under Ali, AR damma, c. late 9th–10th c. AD. Obv: “b’allah yathiqu ali wa bihi yantasir.” Rev: “lillah muhammad rasul allah ali." 11mm, 0.52g. Album 1496.

Habbarids of Sind, under Abd Allah II, AR damma, c. early 11th c. AD. Obv: “la Ilaha Illa allah wahdahu la sharika lahu.” Rev: “muhammad rasul allah al-amir abd allah." 9.5mm, 0.62g. Album A1502.

A very informative post – I learned something reading it!

I particularly like the carnyx on the Cloelius quinarius. It is why I bought mine:

Roman Republic, moneyer: T. Cloelius, AR quinarius, 98 BC, Rome mint. Obv: head of Jupiter, laureate, r., control mark .C. before. Rev: T.CLOVLI; Victory standing r. crowns trophy with seated captive and carnyx; in exergue, Q. 16mm, 1.9g. Ref: RRC 332/1c.

The general design of these quinarii of course is a reference to the earlier victoriati, which don't have the barbarian captive on the reverse yet:

Roman Republic, anonymous issue, AR victoriatus, after 211 BC, Rome mint. Obv: laureate head of Jupiter r. Rev: Victory r., crowning trophy; in exergue, [ROMA]. 17.5mm, 2.0g. Ref: RRC 53/1.

Nice coin!

Yours, just like mine, shows traces of overstriking. That is not unusual: most coins of this type were struck over Tancred's earlier folles (Metcalf 49–62). It would be fascinating to know the economic reason for this. Renovatio monetae? Revaluation of circulating bronze coins? I don't know...

Principality of Antioch, Tancred, AE follis, 1104–1112 AD. Obv: [KE BO TANKR or similar; as usual not struck]; bust of Tancred, bearded, wearing 'turban,' holding raised sword in r. hand. Rev: Cross as the Tree of Life; in quadrants, IC-XC / NI-KA. 22 mm, 2.45g. Ref: Schlumberger II.7, Metcalf 63-70, CCS 4a. Overstruck on Schlumberger II.6; Metcalf 49-62.

Very glad to hear! That is really good news. I had been worried because of @Severus Alexander's absence from this forum. Hopefully, he'll be better soon.

22 hours ago, kirispupis said:

Is it possible to discuss politics on a mere theoretical level, or should the learnings of such academics be put into action, sometimes forcefully? Is any system of government truly the ideal, or are all destined to give away to another?

I'm with the green part of the map below. Here, the people peacefully negotiate and elect to what extent academic theories are put into action or not. And fortunately so: in examples like Klearchos, history has shown again and again what happens if you hand power to ideologists with a fancy set of ideas!

I already liked the coin when I looked at the pics you sent me via PM, but now that I see how it cleaned up I have to say it is indeed a very nice example of the type! Most Henri III demi-francs I have seen online, including those owned by the BNF, are in worse shape. To illustrate the point, the big majority of the examples currently offered on MA-Shops have way less obverse detail left.

Here are two slightly earlier 16th century coins from my collection that I particularly like. The first one came to me as a Secret Saturnalia gift from @Qcumbor:

Kingdom of France, under Henry II, AR douzain aux croissants, 1550 AD, Lyons mint. Obv: + HENRICVS 2 · DEI · G · FRANCORV · REX · F · (lis); crowned French coat of arms; to l. and r., crown above crescent. Rev: + SIT · NOMEN DNI · BENEDICTVM · 1550 · (lis); pellet below 12th letter; cross fleurée with H and crown alternating in quarters; D below. 27mm 2.46g. Ref: Duplessy 997.

Kingdom of France, under Charles IX, AR sol parisis, 1566 AD, Poitiers mint. Obv: +CAROLVS•IX•DEI•G•FRAN•REX; crowned French coat of arms. Rev: +SIT•NOMEN•DNI•BENEDIC 1566; cross fleury with mint mark G in center. 21mm 1.51g. Ref: Duplessy  1083.

Same link again:

Crispus, Roman Empire, AE 3, 317–318 AD, Trier mint. Obv: FL IVL CRISPVS NOB CAES; laureate and cuirassed bust of Crispus r. Rev: PRINCIPI IVVENTVTIS; Crispus standing l. holding spear and globe; in fields, F-T; mintmark .ATR. 19.5mm, 3.19g. Ref: RIC VII Trier 171.

Nice coin and truly informative presentation!

I have a dirham struck fo Harun al-Rashid at the Al-Abbasiyah mint in modern Tunisia. The lettering on this one is too blurred for me to really deciper the mint and date. Yet, I bought it from Allen Berman and it came with a note that said it had been attributed by Stephen Album, so I trust the seller's attribution:

Abbasid Caliphate, under Harun al-Rashid, citing governor Yazid, AR dirham, 787/8 AD (171 AH), Al-Abbasiyah mint. Obv: beginning of kalima (“There is no deity except / (the one) God alone / He has no equal”), mint-date-formula around. Rev: second part of kalima (“Muhammad / is the Messenger / of God); name “Yazid” in lower field; around, Surah IX, 33 (“Muhammad is the messenger of God. He sent him with guidance and the true religion to reveal it to all religions even if the polytheists abhor it”). 23.5mm; 2.94g. Ref: Album 219.2. Ex Allen G. Berman.

8 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

Athalaric, Solidus, Victory

Lovely coin!

My latests ancient coin is much more humble. I picked this one up for little money because I like the artistic reverse:

Vespasian, Roman Empire, AR denarius, 75 AD, Rome mint. Obv: [IMP] CAESAR VESPASIANVS [AVG]; head of Vespasian, laureate, r. Rev: PON MAX TR P COS VI; Securitas, naked to waist, seated l., feet on stool, resting head on raised arm. 18mm, 3.22g. Ref: RIC II, Part 1 (second edition) Vespasian 774.

Alright – one of my favorite areas. I have a fair number of Teutonic Order coins. Here are some personal favorites:

Teutonic Order, anonymous issue, AR bracteate penny, ca. 1290–1410, unknown mint. Obv: shield of the Teutonic Order, three pellets above. Rev: negative design (bracteate). 14mm, 0.16g. Ref: Waschinski 80b; Eggert 12a.

Teutonic Order, anonymous issue, AR bracteate penny, ca. 1290–1410, unknown mint. Obv: Latin cross flanked by two saltires. Rev: negative design (bracteate). 15mm, 0.21g. Ref: Waschinski 158.

Teutonic Order, under Grand Master Winrich von Kniprode, AR shilling, 1351–1382, Thorn or Danzig mint (?). Obv: + MAGST WVNRICS PRIMS; eagle shield of the Grand Master. Rev: + MONETA DNORVM PRUCI; shield of the Teutonic Order. 21mm, 1.64g. Ref: Neumann 4.

Teutonic Order, under Grand Master Conrad V von Erlichshausen, AR schilling, 1441–1449, Thorn mint (?). Obv: + MAGST CORADVS QVIN; eagle shield of the Grand Master on long cross. Rev: + MONETA DNORVM PRUs; shield of the Teutonic Order on long cross. 20.5mm, 1.48g. Ref: Neumann 23.

The Livonian Order, an autonomous branch of the Teutonic Order, is often forgotten. It minted coins, too:

Livonian Order, anonymous issue (under Cisso von Ruttenberg or Jan Freitag von Loringhofen?), AR artig, 14th/15th century, Reval mint. Obv: +MAGISTRI x LIVONIE, shield of the Order. Rev:  +MONETA x REVALIE; cross with three pellets in each quadrant. 18.5mm, 1.2g. Ref:  Neumann 204a; Haljak 6; Hutten-Czapski 4054.

Livonian Order, under Grand Master Wilhelm von Fürstenberg, AR schilling, 1557 AD, Reval mint. Obv: MONET REVALE 57; shield of the Order. Rev: MAGISTRI LIVONIE:; long cross. 18mm, 0.95g. Ref: Haljak II 142; Neumann 242.

The Knights Hospitaller minted a series of rather impressive large silver gigliati at Rhodes:

Knights Hospitaller (Order of St. John) at Rhodes, under Raymond Bérenger, AR Gigliato, 1365-1374. Obv: + F RAIMUNDVS BERENGERII D GRA M; Grand Master, wearing cloak with Maltese cross on shoulder, kneeling l. in prayer before patriarchal cross set on steps; arms of Raymond Bérenger to r. Rev: + OSPITAL ♣ S • IOhS • IRLNI : QTS • RODI •; cross fleury with arms of the Knights Hospitaller at the end of each arm. 28 mm, 3.64g. Ref: Metcalf 1208–1210; CCS 22.

Thanks for the kind words and congratulations, everyone!

On 1/2/2024 at 4:30 AM, savitale said:

We did that about 10 years ago and I convinced her to put together a State Quarters set with me when she was six. So you have some chance of combining your "hobbies".

I very much hope so – I'm extremely excited to see what interests and hobbies she will develop over time. But there is still a lot of time for that...

On 12/30/2023 at 11:15 PM, Ryro said:

I also added this little cutie to my collection this year, 

That's a nice example. I like the portrait style!

On 12/30/2023 at 6:35 PM, Qcumbor said:

My vote went to the three RR coins. I agree with you, the ones showing something else than Roma/biga are the most attractive. Since you asked for posting, here are some

These are all exquisite! The camel denarius with the scorpion field mark is on my want list for 2024. Certainly a very interesting type.

On 12/30/2023 at 3:45 PM, panzerman said:

I really love the Bracteates! My favorites are #7-8-9-10.😍 I do not have any/ but I have AV Angster ND/ Bern/ Burgdorg/ Grafschaft/ Graf Hermann III 1357-77.  There were some special gold strikings from original dies in 15th century.

Rottweil is more famous for.....

That's a true rarity and a small numismatic riddle you have there. The background of these extremely rare Goldabschläge (test strikes, donative coins, semi-private collector items or something else) is still very much up for debate. In any case, that is an extremely desirable coin. (Also: nice dog, though I'm more of a cat person!)

On 12/30/2023 at 2:28 PM, JayAg47 said:

My favourites are the Thasos tetrdradrachm (I'm also after one)

Good luck on the hunt for one!

On 1/2/2024 at 11:18 PM, robinjojo said:

My question for those familiar with this type is are there rare varieties?  The reason I ask is that one lot from Roma's E-Sale 115 hammered at £300!  The lot's description does not mention scarcity or rarity, but then this could just be an omission.  This was lot 1522, a coin in pretty rough condition.

@JeandAcre already explained above that the Roma coin has a pellet in the right obverse field – which makes it somewhat unusual. Yet, there are numerous subtypes with different fieldmarks (lis, ringlet, etc.) that usually don't sell for much of a premium. My theory: either two specialist collectors wanted to have this one badly and were willing to pay whatever necessary, or at least two bidders just didn't know better. Now, the number of people who collect medieval gigliati by field mark likely fits into a single Toyota Prius. Thus, the second option seems more likely...

I bought mine for 28€ plus auction fees and shipping in June 2019. That was a good bargain back then, but not excessively so. The type is common and there aren't many collectors.

Kingdom of Naples, under Robert "the Wise" of Anjou, AR gigliato, 1309–1317. Naples mint (?). Obv: +ROBERT DEI GRA IERL ET SICIL REX; Robert sitting facing on lion throne, holding lily scepter and globus cruciger. Rev: + hOnOR. REGIS. IUDICIU. DILIGIT; floral cross, lilies in quadrants. 28mm, 3.93g. Ref: MIR Napoli 28.

That's a very attractive example of a desirable type, @Sulla80! Also, I didn't know that 46 BC was so much longer than regular calendar years – that's quite fascinating.

Here is my own Carisius denarius from that year:

Roman Republic, moneyer: T. Carisius, AR denarius, 46 BC, Rome mint. Obv: ROMA; helmeted head of Roma r. (Attic helmet with plain crest). Rev: T·CARIS; cornucopiae on globe; on l., sceptre; on r., rudder. 18mm, 3.33g. Ref: RRC 464/3c.

The last thing I bought was a 250g pack of Panko bread crumbs this morning. I'm not certain what I would do with 12.5 tons of Panko bread crumbs. Frying a lot of stuff, I reckon...

The last coin I bought is this one. I could well live with having a big chest of these!

Kingdom of France, under Philippe IV "le Bel" ("the Fair"), AR Gros Tournois à l’O Rond, 1285–1314 AD (struck 1295–1314 AD), Tours mint. Obv: +BHDICTV SIT HOME DHI nRI DEI IhV XPI/+ PhILIPPVS REX, cross pattée; 3-pellet stops. Rev:  +TVRONVS°CIVIS, châtel tournois; border of twelve lis.  Ref: Duplessy 213.

I really appreciate specialized collections. Cistophoric tetradrachms are outside of my own collecting areas, but I learned a lot reading your list.

To my non-specialist eyes, the coin showing Octavian and Agrippa is especially attractive.

Great list overall!

I think the Antiochene denarius of Titus deserves a special mention. That indeed is a fantastic coin.