Grimulfr

On 6/9/2024 at 7:02 PM, Anaximander said:

If you have been reading this thread, you'll discover that my collection includes a large proportion of Viking imitative coins. It's not intentional! It's just something that I have not avoided.  Here are a couple of nice Viking coins or imitations of coins of 'Englaland.'  The first two are rather common. 

   

Anglo-Dane. Cnut + Siefrith, Viking Kingdom of York. 895-902. AR Penny (1.37 gm, 20.1mm, 12h) L. & S. Class IIb. Patriarchal cross ⠁‡⠠, pellet in each quarter of small cross. CИVT RЄX: C-И-V-T at limbs, R-Є-X follow (reads as CR:.TEИXV::)  / Crosslet in center with two pellets. ✠CVИ ⸪ ИET ⸪TI ⸪. (CVNNETI) around inner dotted border. gVF. Bt. Silbury Coins, 2014.  Spink SCBC 993; North 501. SCBI 36 (Berlin) 118-119 var. (pellets).

 

Anglo-Dane. Viking East Anglia, St Edmund Memorial. 885-915. AR Penny (1.35 gm, 19.4mm, 9h) of Ipswich. Large ∙A∙ within circle, ✠ ᔕC EΛDMVNIE around (S sideways).  / Short cross within circle. ✠ΛOΛLBERT NIE (Albert, Germanic moneyer). gVF. Silbury Coins, 2014.  Ex. Somerset Collection. Spink SCBC 960. BMC p.101 150; MEC 1 #1388-1390; MEC 8 #2457-2459; North 483. cf SCBI 1 Cambridge 461-463; SCBI 36 Berlin 95ff.

   

Anglo-Dane. Alfred the Great ("Guthrum" Imitative). 871-899. AR Penny, Canterbury style (1.52ᵍᵐ 20.4ᵐᵐ 7ʰ) Horizontal two line type, HP9P, of Southern Danelaw. Circumscription cross, ✠AELFR-EDR-E. Peck marks around cross.  / • EÐELV • INΞ ꟽỌ̇ • (Ethelwine, moneyer; ligated NE and inverted M).  VF. Davissons EA 28 #71 aftersale. Spink SCBC 1066; North 635; Blackburn VII p.343 in Viking Coinage BNS 7 (2011), BNJ 59 (1989) p.33 #43.

 

These coins give me great pleasure, and I appreciate the opportunity to share them here with you. 

@Anaximander your "Guthrum' type is a very nice example. The early Anglo-Scandinavian coinage of York is a wonderful series - here's one of my best with a plain cross on the obverse and an 'Ebraice Civitas' reverse legend (S.989), formerly in the Andrew Wayne and Lockett collections: 

1 hour ago, Anaximander said:

The Hiberno-Norse Coinage in this thread deserve an elaboration on references. I have a couple of these, and other members are encouraged to submit their own. Forthwith:

            

 

1. MEC 8: Medieval European Coinage, with a catalog of the coins in the Fitzwilliam Museum, Cambridge. Vol. 8, Britain and Ireland, c. 400-1066, by Rory Naismith (2017). 
2. SCBI 8 (BM): Sylloge of Coins of the British Isles. The Hiberno-Norse Coins in the British Museum, by RHM Dolley (1966).
3. SCBI 22 (Copenhagen): Sylloge of Coins of the British Isles, 22. Royal Collection of Coins and Medals, National Museum, Copenhagen. Part V Hiberno-Norse and Anglo-Irish Coins, by Georg Galster, with Michael Dolley and Jørgen Steen Jensen (1975).
4. SCBI 32 (Ulster): Sylloge of Coins of the British Isles, 32. Ulster Museum • Belfast. Part II Hiberno-Norse Coins, by Wilfred Seaby (1984).
5. SCBI 36 (Berlin): Sylloge of Coins of the British Isles, 36. State Museum Berlin Coin Cabinet. Anglo-Saxon, Anglo-Norman, and Hiberno-Norse Coins, by Bernd Kluge (1987).
6. SCBI 51 (Estonia): Sylloge of Coins of the British Isles, 51 Belfast. Anglo-Saxon, Anglo-Norman, and later British Coins, by Ivar Leimus and Arkadi Mōlvogin (2001). 
7. Blackburn Viking: Viking Coinage and Currency in the British Isles, by Mark Blackburn. British Numismatic Society, Special Publication No. 7 (Spink, London, 2011). This volume contains all five installments of Blackburn's Currency under the Vikings articles published in the BNJ. 

Whoever needs confirmation on a reference need only to ask.

PS: Want a longer list? See M. Blackburn's Currency under the Vikings, Part 4: the Dublin coinage c.995-1050. (BNJ vol 78, 2008). You can get lost in that volume's articles alone, much less poking around the many references that Blackburn cites, which include his 1977 article in SCMB quoted by @Grimulfr.

Thanks @Anaximander - super useful, I'm going to bookmark this thread.  There is also a newly-published SCBI 73 which I've not seen yet... 

SCBI 73: Manx Museum, Douglas, Isle of Man. Anglo-Saxon, Hiberno-Scandinavian, Hiberno-Manx and Other Coins and Currencies (to c. 1275). Kristin Bornholdt Collins 

38 minutes ago, Anaximander said:

Awesome coinage, @Grimulfr and @JeandAcre.  Those Hiberno-Norsemen all went to the same barber!

Your Phase I, Grimulfr, is such an amazing strike. It has such readable legends and a delicious peck-mark.  While I regret that I have four SCBI volumes on Hiberno-Norse coinage and just one such coin, at least I can share some findings with those who boast such lovely specimens.  My trusty copy of SCBI 22 (Copenhagen V) at hand, it took me several minutes to ID JeandAcre's coin, with its several pecks. It looks like #15 (FÆMENIM) on plate 1 and Grimulfr's looks like #30 (HILDULF) on plate 2. Happy to hear if you know better.  (click on the images below for something larger, higher-rez. available on request).

 

My own Hiberno-Norse coin is a humble Phase III. Like pretty much all of my nordic coinage, the legends are barbaric. And no peck marks. 

 

London Coin Galleries had a table at the 2017 FUN Show in Tampa Bay. I think they were marking time ahead of the NYINC. They appeared baffled with an actual floor sale, and couldn't handle a check or a credit card.  So it was a cash sale.

Hiberno-Norse. Echmarcach mac Ragnaill-Murchad mac Diarmata Phase III (c. 1035-1060) Penny (0.87ᵍᵐ 17.6ᵐᵐ 12ʰ) Long Cross & Hand type, imitation of Aethelred II long cross type. Spike-haired draped bust left. Blundered legends. ✠IFIIⱵ TIⱵIFCIDDI.  / Voided cross w/ triple crescent ends, hand symbols in 1ˢᵗ/4ᵗʰ quarters & cross pommée in 2ⁿᵈ. ✠IⱵ DTϽ DⱵI IDI. VF. Bt. London Coin Galleries, FUN Show 2017. SCBC Ireland 6132, Dowlee & Finn 24; O'Sullivan 16; SCBI 22 Cop.V 182-185; SCBI 32 Belfast 228; SCBI 8 BM-Dolley 100; B.Roth (BNJ VI 1910) 110; MEC 8 -. cf CNG 90 (2012) 2649; J.Lindsay (1839) Suppl. Pl 2 #29.

 

Thanks @Anaximander  - that's a really good strike on your Phase III coin!  Strangely, the Copenhagen plate coin 30 looks to display a pellet in the third quarter of the reverse which Blackburn doesn't list, he has it listed this as second quarter.  I may have crossed wires though as to which quarter 1 is supposed to be - I presume it to be upper left quadrant but sometimes I see people refer to upper right quadrant as the first quarter (as on a clockface?)…

Some of the Hibero-Norse portraits really are very characterful! No @JeandAcre my coin not listed but it follows the coins of Reverse 3 which he noted.  I've copied extract below from SCMB (https://archive.org/details/seabyscoinmedalb1977base_z7b6/page/348/mode/2up): 

Great thread @JeandAcre. Following @Anaximander's wonderful Forkbeard Crux type penny, here's another that's not as pretty but which imitates Aethelred's Long Cross type. It too was struck using a York reverse die (moneyer Eadric): 

The following penny from across the Irish sea is far more handsome.  Mark Blackburn speculated this may have been minted in York using a Hiberno-Norse obverse die but it is usually classed as part of the first phase of the coinage of Sihtric III Olafsson of Dublin (aka Siggtryg Silkbeard) and is thought to have been struck c. 1000-10. 

 [both coins from CNG]

Wonderful collection @Nap - the designs of many Offa pennies are mesmerising. I love the uncial M that denotes Mercian coinage. I cannot think of another letter/ character on a coinage that is so indicative of its origin. My collection is sadly lacking in Mercian pennies - this Northumbrian styca of Aethelred II is the only coin I have with an uncial M and the Mercian coinage must have inspired the moneyer Leofthegn…

This is an interesting debate and I confess to not properly understanding the role of lead isotopes in the analysis - would the lead not have been sourced separately to the silver? - which clearly serves to confirm my lack of scientific understanding!  The research was widely covered in the UK press and orginates from an article in Antiquity (open access here: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/byzantine-plate-and-frankish-mines-the-provenance-of-silver-in-northwest-european-coinage-during-the-long-eighth-century-c-660820/EE2DE1D7955D055FA4225257755BF340) but the following abstract gives a clearer summary of the study: https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:3fba9aa7-163b-49f0-b883-d14c74a323c4/files/rp8418n97k.   Obviously there was a lot of Byzantine silver plate, spoons et al in the Sutton Hoo burial (which tends to dominate public narratives around Anglo-Saxons in the UK!) and I think that there were similar treasures in the Prittlewell Hoard. I agree with @John Conduitt that in many respects, the analysis raises more questions than it answers - what would explain a large import/ stocks of Byzantine silver in the preceding period to fuel the mintage of the sceatta coinage?  Could ecclesiastical plate from the Eastern empire really have provided such a large volume of silver given that Christianity had only been recently re-introduced to Britain?  What happened to existing silver (including Western Roman silver) that may have been in circulation/ re-circulation?  I don't have any suggestions but I am enjoying the questions it raises and the focus it places on early medieval coinage of nothern Europe. 

Fyi - the Solidus Numismatik lot sold for €5k.

That's a lovely example @JeandAcre.  The early Viking coinage from Scandinavia is stunning but I am concerned at some recent pieces - please take care.  The following (spectacular and extremely rare) early Danish coin from Hedeby was for sale in Bruun Rasmussen's sale last weekend (Auction 916 lot 59 on 7 Nov 23):

The coin had a starting price of 70,000 DKK (c. US$10k) but did not sell.  Today, Solidus Numismatik list the following coin in their Auction 126 on 21 Nov 23, lot 1191 with a starting bid at EUR1800 : 

The coincidence of these coins appearing for sale in such proximity seems a red flag to me. These coins show signs of false distress and the similarities between the two seem incredible for hammered coins (even if struck from the same dies).  I wonder whether some reputable auction houses may be offering these for sale without seriously challenging their origin; I do not mean to question any of the wonderful and provenanced coins in the Peter Preuss collection that were sold in the same BR auction.

Some of those Type J sceats are wonderful and the plumed bird Type E is very well stuck.  The toning of these coins make it appear as if they have been in a collector's cabinet for a long time, not freshly dug from the ground. A continental collection?  Congratulations Roerbakmix!

I love the documentary photography in this piece @TheTrachyEnjoyer, Kent is a special place - including for its rich numismatic history.

Those bracteates are incredible Prieure; it must have been tough to pull out of that auction. 

I am equally curious as Coinmaster as to the nature of the branch depicted in the Frederick II bracteate.  Also can you shed some light on the figure below the lion in the Heinrich VI bracteate- is it a castle of some description?  

Many thanks. 

This looks like SCBI 1020.1032 from the R.P. Mack collection (ex Argyll) - great provenance if so... The form of the regnal name is unusual but the lettering doesn't look retrograde and the bust looks conventional - if it's a Viking imitation, it's a good one!   

32 minutes ago, Hrefn said:

 As you can see, the reverses are not at all alike.  I believe mine is the second Manus Dei type, moneyer is DUDA m-o CARNT for Canterbury.  But so far as the obverses go, I think it is not uncommon on imitative coins to see elements reversed as the engraver copies the prototype coin onto a die.  Your celator did a good job on the obverse inscription, only omitting two letters.   The portrait is reversed, but the cloak is not!  And I do not think he understood the diadem ties.  He very faithfully copied the dot (curl of hair?) below Ethelred”s ear, though.  

Fantastic coin, by the way.  

 

That's a nice coin @Hrefn. It looks to be a rare moneyer and mint combination for the second hand type - there are none in the EMC like this but there was one in the Magnus Collection sold by Spink (your coin?).  My coin follows a slightly later obverse design (the Crux type) where the bust points to the left, although there are a few coins which mule the second hand obverse with a Crux reverse. 

20 hours ago, Hrefn said:

I think this may be the obverse prototype of your penny, @Grimulfr

or close to it.

 

Thanks @Hrefn - does this coin have a Crux reverse? It would be interesting to see the mint and moneyer signature.  The Crux pennies with right facing busts are thought to be the earliest of the Crux pennies and are very rare - this looks to be a "second hand" portrait which I think are the earliest.  There is a very smart hiberno-norse imitation of this type with right facing bust but I haven't heard of a scandinavian imitation with a right facing bust. 

12 hours ago, JeandAcre said:

Fantastic example, @Grimulfr.  I have one possible candidate, bought as an official issue, which just mmmMight be an early imitation like this, but compared to yours, the blundering is so subtle that it might as easily have been from an Anglo-Saxon die sinker on a bad day.  ...If you knew of a website that covers this, a link would be keenly appreciated.  What I have in print (in English) is decidedly fragmentary.

For the Crux type mule imitations, best starting point is probably "Some 'Northern' Variants Etc of the Crux Issue of Aethelred II", BNJ Vol.30 XVIII (1960) - available online https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ/pdfs/1960_BNJ_30_18.pdf  but the plates are not very clear.  I think the best reference would be Brita Malmer's The Anglo-Scandinavian Coinage c.995-1020 if you are able to access a copy (I don't know of an online version - please share if anyone knows of one!) as this has a full corpus of coins and die-chain analysis. 

The serpent penny is an iconic viking design- what a great coin! You can see one of the few examples of coins minted in Sven Forkbeard's name here: https://vikingar.historiska.se/object_details.php?object=300522_KMK&e=no&l=en).  The earliest Danish imitations of English coins are also thought by academics to have been minted for Sven Forkbeard with later imitations minted for Cnut, even though the regnal name on the coins is Aethelred II of England or blundered. The Danish imitations of Aethelred II Long Cross type and Last Small Cross type imitations are most numerous but this example I have mules an Crux type obverse with an Intermediate Small Cross type reverse so is considered to be among the earliest of the imitative Danish coins. It has a York mint signature but is thought to have been minted at Lund - it doesn't have the jawdropping design of the later serpent penny but is very rare and one of my favourites:

Great write-up @Roerbakmix, these are handsome coins - would love to have one.  I think that there were a number of these found at the 'productive' site at Rendlesham in Suffolk, England but not sure what types they were. Of the known corpus of these coins, do you know what proportion are the original Madelinus types rather than pseudo/ later imitative varieties?  

Danes of York, Cnut penny, 'Cunnetti' type, S.993.  The most common of the Viking coins from York but this example has two small additional crosses that flank the patriarchal cross on the obverse - this variant was not noted in Lyon and Stewart's classification of these coins from the Cuerdale Hoard. The coin is much nicer in hand than in the picture!

Nap - that's great; the english coins appear to stop at Harold I - does this volume also illustrate any norman coins? I recall that the Archbishop Sharp sale contained an incredible example of the Eustace FitzJohn standing type penny (number 12 in Pellinore's excerpt) as well as a Two Figures type (number 11) - as you mention, incredible provenance! 

Many thanks Pelinore - that's very interesting.  Until late in the nineteenth century, it was thought that coin number 12 was struck in the name of Eustace, the son of King Stephen.  These coins are now considered as baronial coins issued under the name of Eustace FitzJohn, a Yorkshire magnate.  Similarly coin 11 (a "Two Figures" type) is now generally regarded to depict Stephen and his wife, Queen Matilda of Boulogne rather than Stephen and his son Eustace.  Coin number 3 is a flag type penny - the flag (or standard) is thought to celebrate the Battle of the Standard where the army of David I of Scotland was defeated near Northallerton.  The illustration for this coin shows an unusual reverse - I think the illustrator has tried to interpret the symbols which are usually found in the reverse legends; all of these coins are thought to have been struck at York and none are known with a London mint signature like this. 

What a great find!  The only 18th century illustration of Norman coins from this period that I have seen are those of Andrew Ducarel (A Series of above two hundred Anglo-gallic or Norman and Aquitain coins, 1757) and   Thomas Snelling (A View of the Silver Coin and Coinage of England, from the Norman Conquest to the Present Time, 1762).  Both have been digitised and I think you can access them online via Google Books.  I would love to see the illustrations of coins from King Stephen and the period in your volume if you are able to post?  

This is my debut comment on the site - so would like to say hello to all and state how impressed I am by the breadth and quality of member content on here!