Prieure de Sion

3 hours ago, MrZun said:

Just wondering about that, these chocolate patinas seems to have been made artificially

Why do you think that? Is this just a feeling of yours? Or do you also have "technical" arguments to support your assertion?

If you have doubts about a seller goods and see fraud, you should be able to justify this technically. 

1 hour ago, Coinmaster said:

Bucephalus Numismatic GmbH: 15,-

I am so sorry - but your list is too simple.

1. a full insurance FedEx Express Service with 60 Euro are different to a non-insurance letter shipping for 15 Euro.

2. and there are difference in every company too - for example, your 15 Euro at Bucephalus are only one choice of four at Bucephalus. The 15 Euro are only a letter without any insurance! But at Bucephalus you can select from 15 Euro up to 50 Euro.

So if we want a serious list - you must list the prices include the shipping services (letter, FedEx/UPS Express, Insurance or not...) and you must list all the difference shipping services in the company.

So I read here - he cool Bucephalus only 15 Euro and participate at their next auction. And then I see - shit 15 Euro was only for a letter without any insurance, I must take the 50 Euro FedEx Option. And after that - your listening with 15 Euro here helps me nothing.

🙂 

9 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

It’s because he was actively smuggling and falsifying provenances, not just turning a blind eye.

John, i am absolute agree with you.

But, a producer of an absolutely terrible trash TV show once said, who is responsible for this crap? We who produce this crap - or the millions of viewers who want to watch this crap? I hope you know what I mean 😉 

I think it's a pity - I liked buying coins at Roma. Roma often had coins that I really liked. The service was impeccable - pay - get the goods safely. I have nothing bad to say about Roma, I have only had positive experiences.

What I don't understand, partly in the forums, partly on social media like Facebook, is the malice or even the opinion that Roma were criminals anyway - and some users unpack the moral club.

I would bet that these users have no problem buying a coin they really want from a dealer or an auction - without caring where exactly this coin comes from. Morality then quickly stops at their own favourite coin.

Anyone who pillories Bale should ask himself whether he has done everything he can to make 100% sure that his coins have all gone the legal way! Neither I nor my dealer colleagues have ever experienced buyers wanting to know exactly which way the coin they have just bought went. What I don't know doesn't make me hot? Or, if I don't know exactly, then I'm not guilty?

The only difference between Bale and us is that Bale illegally moved very expensive and valuable coins in a media-effective manner. But just because our coins are only worth 100 USD and we don't really care where they come from (or shift the responsibility to the seller) - we are morally better than Bale.

Somewhat provocatively written, I know. But I'm not throwing stones at Roma or Bale - because I think I've had enough coins in my hands whose paths I don't know.

6 minutes ago, Ricardo123 said:

And what about my auction reward ??? I did SILVER member there !

Shit - i have un-used points. I collect all points of all auction over the years... and now?!? 

OH NO!!!! 😄

58 minutes ago, Bonshaw said:

The never expiring guarantee just expired.

But thats a problem of all sellers and auctionhouses.

1 hour ago, Hrefn said:

Just received an invoice from Roma from the latest E-auction confirming they are ceasing operation May 24th.  It is official.  

Thats very sad... I like Roma Numismatics and liked to win there coins. 

Very sad for me 😞 

9 minutes ago, lordmarcovan said:

I don’t pay enough attention to shipping details

That's my problem - i think everytime, the companys will take normal costs - and then i am surprised, when a company will take more than the real costs are 😄 

10 minutes ago, lordmarcovan said:

Shipped from Germany to USA for $21.40 USD.  As I recall, it was shipped via UPS.  It arrived quickly, within 2 or 3 days.  Regular post for $20+ would seem a bit high to me, but for 2-3 day transatlantic shipping it seems pretty reasonable.  (Whether the price I paid for the coin itself was reasonable is another question.)

And Ritter do well - that's a fine price with UPS. As a German dealer too, i can say, that UPS cost from Germany to USA 21-25 Euro. So Ritter will take the real costs - and nothing else. 

33 minutes ago, Roman Collector said:

I purchased a coin from a Spanish auction (Tauler & Fau)

Same - but they have some very interesting coins for me. If you have only 1-2 coins, the cost horrible - i know. I have 8 coins, so for every coin under 10 Euro shipping, thats ok. But again - i know what you mean, win 1 or 2 coins makes it expensive.

35 minutes ago, Roman Collector said:

in EARLY JUNE!!! 

But that`s a problem of the spanish authorities. Tauler & Fau (same Jesus Vico and Aureo Calico) take the original legal way with legal spanish documents - and that will be need 6-8 weeks. Thats real.

I know, some other spanish dealers / auctionhouses shipp faster - but not with the original spanish paper. I know one spanish auction house, they put litte "official" exoport documents (postcard size) in their shipping - but this documents are fantasy self printed "documents".

So yes... 6-8 weeks sucks - but on the other side you get original legal export documents from the spanish authorities.

On 2/22/2024 at 1:11 PM, ambr0zie said:

I was a little shocked as paying 15 euros for an uninsured postal package or 25 euros for a Fedex uninsured package doesn't seem to ...reassuring. And doubling the fees for insurance seems silly, doesn't it?

Today i am little shocked too... 😉 

Make a biddr checkout from a yesterday auction.

From EU Belgium to EU Germany - 15 Euro for a registered letter? I know registered letter will cost around 8 Euro. Thats a nice winning. 

But 30 Euro for a registered letter with insurance. I know the insurance prices of the market - let me calculate, 8 Euro for the letter and 22 Euro for the insurance of a 500 Euro coin? Normally 99% of the Insurance company`s will take 1% fee of the invoice amount. For a 500 Euro coin = 5 Euro insurance fees. Nice winning.

50 Euro FedEx include insurance. Same. 

Some companies seem to have found a second way to make money. Don't get me wrong - I'm a salesman myself. But if you have earned money from the goods and again from the sales fees. Ok - I understand. But if you now want to earn money from the goods, the sales fees and the shipping. I don't think that's good.

13 hours ago, JAZ Numismatics said:

What does the EX stand for? I've seen it on a few other early Nero types.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=ex s c 

52 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

The dealer from which I made the purchase is actually located in Austria rather than Germany. I imagine that similar economic reasons explain the VCoins vs. MA-Shops price differential for a dealer in Austria. I saw the MA-Shops listing first, so it was fortunate that I happened to check the listing on VCoins before making the purchase. I don't even remember exactly why I did so -- I certainly wasn't expecting to see a price for the same coin that was 50 Euros lower.

But, as it turned out, the whole issue was academic in this case: the next day, I exercised my 14-day right to cancel the order, after I realized that I had stupidly forgotten that I already had a very similar type for the same Emperor. Still, the frequent existence of a price differential between the two platforms is useful information to have for the future. I'm surprised that I never noticed it before. Not every dealer, of course, sells on both platforms. It's probably a minority that does so.

Ah ok - i dont know the about the different from Austria and Germany about inside country taxes. 

It’s not the same as Spain (minimum 6 weeks for documents). Portugal parcels are the same as from other EU country’s like Germany, France, Denmark etc.

2 hours ago, seth77 said:

This is very evocative of the reasons why the EU is lagging behind the US in terms of business growth: it seems way easier to do business in the US than in the EU. And also cheaper.

That’s true.

I pay 7% import tax, when the coin comes from outside EU. And when a EU costumer will buy the coin - I must pay 19% tax of the winning Marge. And MA-Shop take a provision from me (and must add at the amount 19% tax). 

And at the and of the year I must make my business year balance - and must pay of my complete year profit  14% to 42% tax (Depending on the amount of the profit). 

So at the end - if you make 50€ profit at a 250€ coin:

Provision with tax:
- around 15€

19% Differenzsteuer from your profit
- 8 Euro

= 27€ 

And from this 27€ profit - at the end of the year (depending on annual profit) you must calculate 14% to 42% business tax. Lets make a example of 30% from your profit - so it was around 8€ … also you have at the end 19€ profit from your beginning 50€ profit. Welcome in German tax wonderland.

So yes - if you ask me - yes I prefer to sell to a USA customer with VCoins. Simply because 1-2 taxes are then eliminated for me. That’s the true. 

5 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

Ok so it could be quite a difference depending on where the dealer or the customer comes from.

Yes... if the customer comes from Germany or EU - i must pay for my win a tax called "Differenzssteuer" of 19%. But i dont know before - when i place a coin - was the next buyer a customer inside EU or outside EU. As i said - the different was, that i have at Vcoins 99% customers outside EU and at MA-Shop 99% customers inside EU. So the "risk" for me, that a EU customer buy at MA-Shop was higher - and then i must calculate the 19% "Differenzsteuer" at my winning marge. 

5 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

Why don’t you have to pay the 19% provision tax on VCoins given you are still German when selling there? Similarly the 19% differential tax if the VCoins customer is German? 

2 hours ago, Dwarf said:

For a dealer based in Germany the one and only difference between MA-shops and VCoins is a difference in provision charged by the owner(s) of the shop.

And thats not true Klaus!

MA-Shop is a company based in Germany - and when you get the provision invoice - you get the provision amount plus the German 19% tax (Mehrwertsteuer)!
Netto Provision + 19% Tax = Brutto Provision. 

VCoins is a US Company and you get the invoice without adding 19% tax! So at Vcoins i pay only the provision without any adding taxes.
Netto Provision = Brutto Provision.

And at last - sorry I am writing at my handy - it was possible the dealer forget change prices at booth shops. It’s also possible he change the prices at VCoins for some coins - want change the prices at MA Shop and forget 1-2 coins.

I do the same … I make some coins cheaper, but forget one coin at MA Shop. So one coin was at MA Shop expensively that at my VCoins shop. I see the error later and edit the price. But if you see it - you want think, why the different prices 🙂 

VCoins selling 
+ Provision

MA-Shop selling
+ (higher) Provision
+ 19% tax at (higher) Provision
+ 19% Differenzsteuer for winning Marge 
+ Winning Tax for Shipping costs

I complete forget - here in Germany (I am not sure it was at all EU country’s the same) the shipping cost was part of the winning Marge! So when I take 20 Euro from you to shipping to USA I musst add this 20 Euro to my winning at this transaction. And so pay more tax for the German custom authorities.

12 hours ago, DonnaML said:

I just bought a coin from a German dealer on VCoins for 200 Euros. The same dealer was charging 250 Euros on MA-Shops for the same coin. The shipping charges were the same on the two platforms. So I made the obvious choice of which platform to use to make the purchase.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any possible reason for the different prices? Are the MA-Shops charges to dealers that much higher than what VCoins charges them? If so, one would expect to see this kind of retail price differential all the time. But I  haven't noticed any such substantial differences in the past in this situation.

 

Hello Donna, as a German VCoins and MA-Shop Dealer I can explain.

1. the provision at MA-Shop is higher to pay 

2. as a German dealer we must pay 19% custom tax for the provision invoice to the German authorities 

3. at VCoins I have 99% customers outside EU - so I don’t must pay „Differenzsteuer“ on my winning Marge. At my MA-Shop I have 99% EU customers who buys - and I must pay 19% called „Differenzsteuer“ for winning Marge. 
 

So… a) higher Provision b) 19% tax at the provision and c) in 99% of buys 19% Differenzsteuer when EU customers will place a order. 

Yes - you are not a EU Customer - but I don’t know that, when I place the offer at the MA-Shop … so it’s a risk don’t calculate that. 

So yes, for a EU Dealer it’s much more expensive to sell at MA-Shop instead of VCoins. And it’s not only the higher provision - the matter was the two custom taxes in our EU/Germany authorities.

I have the same prices at VCoins and MA-Shop, but it’s stupid from me. That’s, because my business is more a hobby than my work I must pay my life. If this was my main job like other dealers - I must make two prices also. 

9 minutes ago, Roman Collector said:

Western civilization must come to terms with its distant past.

I completely agree with your entire text, but I find JAZ's question very interesting. How long do we need to distance ourselves from the deeds?

A somewhat exaggerated example - but a question.

If I were to be offered a coin where it is certain that a Roman emperor held it in his hands and kept it himself - even if I knew it was a (negatively) famous Roman emperor who had thousands of people executed in the arena? Yes! Of course! It is a famous emperor - whether negative or positive. Yes! I would even hold the coin in reverence in my hands if I knew that the emperor had also held it in his hands.

Would you have the same admiration for an object that came from the hands of A.H. or Stalin? I would not. No! I wouldn't admire an object that Stalin or Adolf had in their hands. On the contrary - it would disgust me. 

It's "strange". I have no problem with a Roman emperor who sent citizens (including children) into arenas for reasons of faith, sent millions of slaves to their deaths, invaded countries and their populations - on the contrary - but I despise more recent dictators and dictators.

Provocative - is there an expiry date at which a despicable dictator becomes a "normal" historical person?

11 hours ago, JAZ Numismatics said:

So the real question is: how much time is enough to erase the distaste of owning objects associated with evil men? Because if you collect Roman, you've got a cabinet full of coins issued by murderous, torturing, genocidal, megalomaniacal, perverse, misogynistic pedophiles. 

A really interesting question JAZ!

Is it somehow morally questionable if I buy an item that I know a bad/evil person recently owned?

I think what we don't need to discuss is when there is "blood on" a collectible. If it is looted art that was expropriated during the National Socialist era, for example - or even if the owner was killed. 

But - to what extent is it morally reprehensible to collect an exhibit that recently belonged to a serial killer or child molester? He had it in his hands - do I want to hold it in his hands too? But what fault should the coin have in this? Or is it - and I'm just making light of the situation?

But one thing is certain - I can no longer use the provenance as advertising in the item description - or in other words - I will not advertise the provenance.

I don't know whether that's something to laugh about (at myself) or something to cry about.

As a seller, you naturally look forward to every pedigree that somehow promises a name - that you can then garnish nicely in the sales text. This was also the case with 2 coins that I bought at auction. First of all, I would have taken the coins without the pedigree, but of course you're happy to take something like that. And since I wasn't interested in the former collector at first, I just added his name to the text and wanted to do some research later. Who knows - maybe the collector was known.

However, I didn't realise then that the man was really famous. And unfortunately also notorious.

The former owner of the two coins is Prof Dr V.J.A. Flynn - and I would have preferred to have taken a closer look beforehand.

Have "fun" reading: 
https://kvramakrishnarao.wordpress.com/2022/02/17/the-historical-case-of-prof-v-j-a-flynn-a-friend-of-many-indian-historians-arrested-for-smuggling-jailed-and-deported-to-australia-for-further-proceedings/ 

A criminal, a smuggler, apparently - and now it's no longer funny - a paedophile.

Did the seller know who he had given as the provenance? Yes, that's the way it is with pedigrees. You hope for great names - and then you can very quickly get a well-known name, which then becomes undesirably "famous".

Oh man, that's what you call shooting yourself in the foot.

I just expect a good Hollywood film - which somehow has something to do with Roman antiquity, then I won't be disappointed.

When I read in the plot that Lucilla's son - Verus - is lost somewhere in the forest and suddenly reappears - at the time of Caracalla and Getra, then I suspect the worst historically. 

I already made the mistake with Gladiator Part 1 of expecting too much historical stuff. When I watched Gladiator 1 for the first time, I was completely disappointed, even annoyed (because of the historical inaccuracy). Once I accepted that it was simply a good action film with Romans - I made my peace with this film.

But some historical inaccuracies are simply terrible in some films. Yes, I understand that if you only went 1:1 historically, the general public would fall asleep in the cinema. 

But for me, the best example is still the ROME series. There is so much in the series that is not historical - but the producers and writers have done the story so well - even without a historical background - that you don't want to write out loud every 10 minutes. That's not the case with many other Roman films - which are so illogical and bad. 

A very bad example of completely illogical plots and Teutons disguised as Vikings is the second instalment of "Barbarians".

As written. I expect an action film with Romans. Then I won't be disappointed by Gladiator 2. 

But I'm afraid - if they portray Caracalla or Geta as clowns and idiots, I'll probably bite the back of my chair again.

Yes!  
 
A official film trailer? With battle scenes - as example - from lord of the rings? Not really.  
 
And correct history? Lucius Verus comes back to Caracalla and Geta. It’s a Hollywood Film - I don’t think with this constellation (Verus Caracalla Gera) we get a historical correct Dokumentation 🙂 

Anyone can post as many ID questions as they like in this forum - I think everyone is welcome. 

But it would be very helpful, also for the people who want to help you, if you would write some meaningful headings for your posts. It's also a kind of respect towards other users. They are taking their lifetime your "??" threads.

And - which is also nice and respectful - if you also write some text thanking the users for their help in all the ID help threads. These users deserve that too.

No offence meant, no attack. Just an "advice". 
My 2 cent 😉 

1 hour ago, Amanda said:

Received when father passed years ago and found recently in a suitcase in my attic when clearing out, does anyone know on ideas of worth please 

Unfortunately, this is not really possible.

No offence is meant. But the pictures are too small, too poor, too blurred - to be able to say whether the coins are genuine at all. You would need much better pictures.

The diameter and weight of each coin are also missing. 

You can't say anything serious like that.

But I assume they are of little value - probably - because coins 1-3 appear to be forgeries. The rest are in poor condition.
 
 

51 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

The first looks to be Balbinus RIC 11, perhaps of dubious authenticity. Similarly the second, which is Macrinus RIC 91, and the third, which is Didius Julianus RIC 3.

The first thing I noticed immediately. Even if the pictures are not really good - I bet coins 1 to 3 are forgeries.