maridvnvm

@dougsmit posted a whole host of coins that any "Emesa" specialist would be envious of. I certainly know that I am envious of them.

The basket of fruit type is one I am missing for Septimius but I do have for Domna.

The AVG II C  - REREDVC I have noted in my documentation for this interesting (and highly sought after) sub-series.

The left facing bust type always goes for a premium and I have not been able to get one as they are always outside my budget.

The COS II - IOVI PRAE ORBIS is a rare type and a reverse die match to my COS I example, illustrating the linkage between these issues.

The "AVG" - LEG VIII AVG II COS is exceptional and a type that is missing from my "II COS" reverse type collection.

The MINER VICTRIC is a rare reverse type from a very interesting obverse die. I have eight reverse dies linked to this obverse in my collection but am missing this one and unlikely to see one is a hurry.

The COS II - MINER VICTR is an exceptionally lovely example of a very rare reverse type.

The ROMAE AETERNA is so much rarer than the POMA AETERNA  variant.

I am envious of each and every coin illustrated..... truly world class coins.

Having seen the obverse die illustrated by @Sulla80 and @dougsmit I then noted another example from the same obverse die with the die break but with a different reverse type come up for sale. It is a type that I already have loads of examples of and so am not tempted..... but thought it worthy of note here

An obverse die I do not have.....

All I have to say is "welcome to the dark side".....

Regards,

Martin

As someone who doesn't specialise in this period I am in two minds about purchasing this book. It is not a cheap book but could well be something I regret not buying.... decisions, decisions....

There are quite a few of us that are in STEM areas.

I have a BSc Hons in Mathematics and have working in Engineering (Software, Systems, Engineering Management) for too many (>35) years.

I don't have it on my CV but it has come up in discussion. I don't change job often enough to need to keep my CV up to date.

I have had a few partially silvered Victorinus with a variety of silvering remaining. Really not my area of expertise but I have dabbled....

Gaul, Northwest. Coriosolites. Circa 100-50 BC. BI Stater

Obv:- Celtic head right, hair in large spiral curls, S-like ear
Rev:- Celticized rider on horseback right; square ornament before; below, boar right.
References:- Depeyrot, NC VIII, 182; D&T 2336

Next:- Stylised horse

Link:- Head of Roma

L. Cornelius Sulla and L. Manlius Torquatus, denarius

Obv:- L. MANLI PRO Q, helmeted head of Roma right
Rev:- Sulla in triumphal quadriga right, crowned by Victory flying left above, L. SVLLA IM in exergue.
Minted in Military mint moving with Sulla. Ca. 82 BC.
Reference:- Crawford 367/5. RSC Manlia 4. RCTV 286

Link:- Constans

Constans - AE2

Obv:- D N CONSTANS P F AVG, Pearl diademed, draped & cuirassed bust left holding globe, N behind bust
Rev:- FEL TEMP REPARATIO, Helmeted soldier, spear in left hand, advancing right, head left; with his right hand he leads a small bare-headed figure from a hut beneath a tree. The spear points down and to the left
Minted in Rome; (_ | N //RE)
Reference:– RIC VIII Rome 158 (Rated R)

21.39 mm, 4.25g, 0 degrees

Septimius Severus denarius

Obv:– IMP CAE L SEP SEV PERT AVG II C, laureate head right
Rev:– CERER FRVG II COS, Ceres standing left, holding grain ears in right hand, torch in left.
Minted in Emesa. A.D. 194
Reference:– BMCRE -. RIC -. RSC -.

Next:- Ceres

I am far from expert here. I don't see any evident tooling but it looks as thought it has been stripped back to bare metal and chemically toned.

I have started a study related to the coins in the thread above where I can link that obverse die, through the reverses, to other evidently contemporary obverse dies. I might do some work on this in the coming days to see how far and wide the links get. It is something I started some time back when I didn't have as many examples of my own or images of other examples from elsewhere....

This might help understand how these coins relate to one another and to other coins in the series. Their relative chronology is not known or clearly understood. I am probably one of the few that cares but it is worth a look to see what turns up. I know that I have quite a few disparate links across a variety of issues and so it will be interesting to see if they link up when they are all put together.

This is what a Laodicea example looks like

Rome Mint.

1 hour ago, Heliodromus said:

Are you saying that obv A is paired with 12 different reverse dies across these 10 types (e.g. paired with T1-1, T1-2 plus T2-1, T2-2, etc ,etc) ?

Are there also other obv dies/busts (B, C, etc) that are also seen in combination with these various T1-T10 reverse type dies ?

What are you referring to above by "with only slightly more examples known to exist" ?

 

Yes.

Yes

There are only around 20 known examples from this particular obverse die, which has an obverse legend that only occurs on this die.

Some of my die matches (a small sample) were illustrated in this thread....

https://www.numisforums.com/topic/3784-septimius-severus-another-obverse-die-match-aka-tales-of-a-severan-obsessive/#comment-45695

I think that the most reverse dies I have combined with the same obverse die is 12 in my collection, of which these are about 10 different reverse types...

14 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

 It's not like they switched the dies around regularly.

Hmmm. I am not sure about that assertion. How do account for some coins where there are many known reverse dies to a single obverse die with only slightly more examples known to exist.

Die studies are invaluable in some sub-issues where there is not evidence other than die linkages to link coins to the same mint other than "style". Dies studies also help try to determine relative chronology of usage if you can see progression of die damage etc....

I am not a numismatist but in my own little corner of collecting I do study die linkages quite avidly. I have bought double die matches simply to support this. I don't think you want be dragging out the die linkages here though.

Link:- Same reverse.... (different bust)

Gallienus Antoninianus 

Obv:– GALLIENVS · P · F · AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right
Rev:– GERMANICVS MAX V, Two captives seated at the foot of a trophy, their arms tied behind their backs
Minted in Lugdunum. A.D. 259
Reference:– Van Meter 316. RIC 018, RSC 308. Gobl 872d

I don't seem to be able to let this subject go. I was looking for some more examples where I could possibly identify a tooled coin and tie it back to the original dies. I think I have a couple of more examples but a lot of this is getting into speculation as the coins under comparison differ so much it is sometimes difficult to determine if they are from the same dies.

I saw a Commodus Sestertius for sale some time back that was described as "Smoothed and tooled in ancient time". How they determined that the tooling is ancient is interesting but may relate to the coin having a pedigree back to 1898. 

Here is the coin in question. To my eyes the portrait has been sharpened but the reverse appears to have been completely reworked. I have not studied the sestertii of this period well but there is also something that jars with me about the obverse legend.

Looking at the BM collection there is an obverse die with the same legend break combined with this reverse type that could be a candidate for the obverse die that originated the coin above. Though it is quite worn and there is very little evidence left of the reverse to give any clues.

a bit more digging and the following coin emerges which could well be from the same die pair as the BM example and has some reverse legend but not really close to that of the OP.

I have to wonder if another heavily worn example from this die pair was the host for the OP example.

Whilst looking at the above I was able to ignore some other coins of the type because they had a very different obverse legend break, such as this example from the BM.

This led me to look at other coins that might be derived from this one. This led me to the following coin. Two images, from two separate sales. I suspect that this coin comes from the same obverse die as this second BM example and may also have undergone some cosmetic enhancement on both sided.

I am wondering if I should stop looking at coins for a bit. It has been a long, hard year and perhaps I am just seeing things.

Anyone have any thoughts on these?

Link:- Marcus Aurelius

Marcus Aurelius Denarius

Obv:- M ANTONINVS AVG TR P XXVIII, Laureate, cuirassed bust right (Seen from rear)
Rev:- IMP VI COS III, Trophy of arms, German captive at foot, teo curved swords to right
Minted in Rome. Dec. A.D. 173 - Jun. 174
Reference:- BM 599. RIC II Marcus Aurelius 291

Heavily toned to very dark grey, making it difficult to photograph.

Not a limes denarius but a limes falsa....???

That's about all I have to suggest too. I have a couple of lightweight middle bronze casts but they are not something I chase after. There is too much uncertainty about them for me....

I have it as "potentially cast in Gaul"

With the topic of tooling being an active discussion I thought it might be worth adding another example of tooling into the mix.

I saw this up for sale recently....

Commodus, AE, Sestertius.
Obv: IMP L AVREL COMMODVS AVG GERM SARM. Head of Commodus, laureate, right.
Rev: TR POT COS P P, S C, DE SARM. Two captives seated left and right at the base of a trophy.
Ref: RIC 1571 var.
18.34 g. 31.94 mm
Good Very Fine.
Details in the fields of the coin were tooled with extreme care.
Very Rare with rev. legend

I thought it would be interesting to try and determine what has been changed on the coin by trying to compare it with some coins from the original dies. This is not always as easy as you would home but in this case I think I have found what appears to be a double die match.

Commodus, AE, Sestertius.
Obv: IMP L AVREL COMMODVS AVG GERM SARM. Head of Commodus, laureate, right.
Rev: TR P II COS P P, S C, DE SARM. Two captives seated left and right at the base of a trophy.

I believe that these are the dies from which the original coin was struck from before it was tooled.  The engraver has kept broadly to the original reverse, adding "detail" here and there but created a new reverse legend along the way....

Thoughts???

I find the term "tooled with extreme care" quite puzzling.