maridvnvm

Wow. Simply Wow. Absolutealy fantastic addition. I was unaware of this type, probably because this is very far away from my focus areas. That doesn't stop me admiring it enormously.

I have been collecting Probus coins for over 20 years and one of my sub-collections is his coinage from Alexandria. I have not added a new coin to this sub-collection for a few years as I seem to be chasing coins that only come onto the market quite rarely and with some, when they do come on the market the feeding frenzy around them makes them to prohibitively expensive for me to get it when it is offered.

All that being said I have just added a coin to this sub-collection.

Probus, Billon tetradrachm

Obv:– A K M AVP PROBOC CEB, Laureate, cuirassed bust right
Rev:– None, Eagle standing right, head left wreath in beak
Minted in Alexandria Egypt. (L | D) Year 4. A.D. 278-279
Reference(s) – Milne -. Emmett 3983(4) - Curtis -. BMC -. Köln -; Dattari -. All unlisted for this regnal year. This reverse type is listed in the refences for years 1, 2 and 5)

6.73 gms, 19.37 mm. 0 degrees

This is one of the five (5) eagle reverse types known for Probus.

The type is not scarce but is apparently not published for this regnal year.

Not eanting to take the appearance of an unpublished regnal year at face value I have been discussing this coin with someone (I am not sure that I am free to name them here and thus I will not) and the following challenges to this coin have been gone through.

Year 1 coins are in general much scarcer than most later coins due to the short duration of the regnal year. It not not unknown for later coins to be tooled to make them appear to come from year 1. Cound this be the converse where a year 1 coin has had the regnal year modified to create an unpublished regnal year.

To challenge this I provided a more detailed image of the reverse. This allows inspection of the regnal year in more detail. The serifs are clearly visible on the corners of the Delta and there are flowlines in the fields which give the best indication that these areas have not been modified.

The next challenge is more difficult to challenge. The bust is quite large compared to others in this issue and is more consistent with earlier years. The best way to progress this is to perform a die analysis and find an obverse die match to as many examples as possible to see what regnal years the obverse die turns up for. This would then allow some further analysis to occur to answer some questions. During what regnal years were this obverse die use? Are there other examples of this die in Year 4? If the die is used across regnal years then are there other examples of an obverse die being used across regnal years for this period?

Thus far I have not made any progress as I have not been able to find any obverse die matches. I will continue this activity.

As such there is no reason to doubt that it ia what it appears to be, which is an unpublished regnal year for the type.

Just for comparison here are my examples of Years 1, 2 and 5.

Year 1 is very much like an Aurelian portrait

Year 2 - (needs a new photo)

Year 5 (also needs a new photo)

The other eagle reverse types are:-

Emmett 3981 - Eagle standing right, palm on wing, wreath in beak

Emmett 3982 - Eagle standing right, head right, wings spread, wreath in beak

Emmett 3984 - Eagle standing left, head turned right, wreath in beak

Emmett 3985 - Eagle standing facing left, head right, with wreath in beak

Regards,

Martin

I have a few more varieties from the mint too.

Constantine the Great - Follis
Obv:– IMP CONSTANTINVS P F AVG, Laureate, cuirassed bust right
Rev:– SOLI INVICTO COMITI, Sol standing left holding globe in left and raising right
Minted in London (T | F / PLN) A.D. Autumn A.D. 310
Reference(s) – RIC VI London 121a

Constantine the Great - Follis

Obv:– IMP CONSTANTINVS P F AVG, Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:– SOLI INVICTO COMITI, Sol standing left holding globe in left and raising right
Minted in London (T | F / PLN) A.D. Autumn A.D. 310
Reference(s) – RIC VI London 122 var. LMCC 6.02.011 var

4.47g. 23.55 mm. 180 degrees

Sol is usually depicted as holding the globe sitting in a flat palm and in this pose the chlamys draped to the left of the globe, Here the globe is bein held with the palm wrapped around the outside of the globe with the globve towards the body. The chlamys in this case drapes to the right. The RIC plate coin (Plate 1) of this type can be seen to be the normal depiction. I am not claiming this ti be a different type but an variation applied by the engraver but it certainly stands out as being different alongside it's peers.

Constantine the Great - Follis
Obv:– CONSTANTINVS P AVG, Laureate cuirassed bust right
Rev:– COMITI AVGG NN, Sol radiate standing left, holding globe and whip
Minted in London (_ | * //PLN) A.D. 310-312
Reference(s) – RIC VI London 169 (S citing Oxford). LMCC 7.03.027 (Rated S)

Licinius I - Follis
Obv:– IMP LICINIVS P F AVG, Laureate, cuirassed bust right
Rev:– GENIO POP ROM, Genius standing left, modius on head, naked but for chlamys round waist, left hand holding cornucopiae and right hand holding patera
Minted in London (S | F / MSL). A.D. 315
Reference(s) – RIC VII London 31 (R1). LMCC 8.04.004 (Rated C). The most common variety from this issue.

Constantine the Great - Follis
Obv:– CONSTANTINVS P F AVG, Laureate, cuirassed bust right
Rev:– MARTI CONSERVATORI, Mars helmeted, in military dress, spread cloak, standing, right, holding reversed spear, left hand leaning on shield
Minted in London (*|_// PLN).
Reference:– RIC VI London 254. LMCC 7.10.003 (Rated C)

4.28g. 24.66 mm. 180 degrees

Constantine the Great - Follis
Obv:– IMP CONSTANTINVS P F AVG. Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:– MARTI CO-NSERVATORI. Mars helmeted, in military dress, cloak hanging over right shoulder, standing, right, holding reversed spear, left hand leaning on shield
Minted in London (* | _ // PLN). Late A.D. 313- May A.D. 314 (LMCC DATING)
Reference:– RIC VI London 251 (Rated S with CON-S, noted rarely occurring with CO-NS. This seems to be supported by a spot check of other coins of this issue) . LMCC 8.01.003 (Rated S)

I have bought far too many of these Elagabalus variants over the years, these include the types illustrated above. I hope that you don't mind me adding them here along with another couple of coins that might be relevant. I will not share all of them because there are simply too many.

RIC 88 without and with horn.

RIC 131

Here is a RIC 87 which I think is a nice example of the type.

Obv:– IMP ANTONINVS PIVS AVG, laureate, horned, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:– INVICTVS SACERDOS AVG, Elagabalus standing holding patera over an altar and branch. Star in right field. Horn on ground to his left
Minted in Rome. A.D. 222
Reference– BMC 209 note. RIC 87 (where it is rated Common citing Cohen). RSC III 58. Cohen 58 (illustrated with star in right field) valued at 50 Fr. No examples in RD.
ex Numismatica Ars Classica NAC AG Sale 42, Lot 379, 20th November 2007, ex Barry Feirstein Collection, previously privately purchased from Harlan J. Berk.
Described as Lightly toned and good extremely fine by NAC.
21 mm. 3.11 gms. 0 degrees.

The coin would certainly seem to be scarcer than the "Common" rating given in RIC would imply. No examples in RD, only one example on acsearch (this coin). No examples on Wildwinds (the RIC 87 there would appear to be in error).

Regards,

Martin

I have just received this and thought it worthy of sharing.

Constantine the Great - AE3

Obv:– CONSTANTINVS P AG, Laureate, cuirassed bust right
Rev:– GENIO-POP ROM, Genius standing left, modius on head, loins draped, holding patera and cornucopiae
Minted in London S | F / MLN. c. Late A.D. 314
Reference(s) – RIC VII London 40 (R5). LMCC 8.05.006 (RR) citing BM. 1927, 0616.156. ex. Llangharren.

Same die pair as BM Example.

3.23 gms, 21.28 mm. 180 degrees

BM example for comparison.

A small sample from the Constantine II coins I have gathered over the years. A sample of mints.....

Trier

Arles (open door campgate)

Aquileia

London

Lugdunum

Thessalonica

Alexandria

Very poignant. The man in his own words. God Bless Sir.

Spinks book site is now back up and running.

I have successfully ordered and received my copy from them.

A very brief initial inspection is positive. This isn't a book I will be using every day or even on a weekly basis. I dabble with the Gallic Empire periodically and have bought this volume to support my occasional forays into this coinage.

I looks forward to using it in anger. I will start my examining my historical Gallic Empire purchases to see what, if anything, more I can learn about them.

This is sad news indeed. He will be missed.

In the second Emission of Probus from Lugdunum there are only a few reverse types produced. Amongst them there are a couple of reverse types that have a common reverse legend but there is also a much scarcer reverse legend variety. 

I have had examples of the common varieties in my collection for some years.

Obv:– IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG, Radiate cuirassed bust right
Rev:– PROVIDENTIA AVG, Providentia standing left holding globe and cornucopiae.
Minted in Lugdunum (III in exe) Emission 2, Officina 3. November to December A.D. 276.
Reference:– Cohen 496. Bastien 171. RIC 46 Bust type F

Weight 3.83g. 23.18mm. 180 degrees

Obv:– IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG, Radiate cuirassed bust right
Rev:– LAETITIA AVGVSTI, Laetitia standing left holding wreath and staff
Minted in Lugdunum (IIII) Emission 3 Officina 4. Minted Start A.D. 277
Reference:– Cohen 329. Bastien 182 (29). RIC 31 Bust Type F

Weight 3.20g. 23.52mm. 180 degrees

Nearly fully silvered.

Clashed die resulting in obverse profile being seen on the reverse.

Possibly Minted in Lugdunum (IIII) Emission 2, 2nd Phase Officina 4. November to December A.D. 276. Bastien 172 (28)

The coin in question at auction was a long form legend of the Providentia coin.

I managed to obtain the following example after the auction.

Obv:– IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG, Radiate cuirassed bust right
Rev:– PROVIDENTIA AVGVSTI, Providentia standing left, holding baton and sceptre; at foot, globe.
Minted in Lugdunum (III in exe) Emission 2, Officina 3. November to December A.D.276
Reference:– Cohen 501. Bastien 170 (4 examples cited). RIC 48 Bust type F

3.78 gms, 22.84 mm. 180 degrees

I also managed to get the short form of the Laetitia.

Obv:– IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG, Radiate cuirassed bust right
Rev:– LAETITIA AVG, Laetitia standing left holding wreath and staff
Minted in Lugdunum (IIII) Emission 2, 2nd Phase Officina 4. November to December A.D. 276
Reference(s) – Cohen 324. Bastien 173 (3). RIC 31 Bust Type F (C)

3.64 gms, 22.74 mm. 0 degrees

I had been aware of both these variants but not seen any on the market up until this point. Seeing two of the Providentia on the market within weeks of each other was pure coincidence. Picking up the Laetitia at the same time was nice.

I was browsing some auctions at the end of last year and there were about 30 lots, each of up to 250 coins, mainly LRB, all of which were described as "ex-dealer stock" and "Sand patina applied" and "repatinated". There must have been thousands of coins offered with the full range of sand colours. I suspect that they all went into the trade and will emerge as individual coins.....

It would very much depend. It is the multiple dies with the different officina mark positioning that is of primary interest. Mutiple dies might strengthen the argument for an intentional positioning of the officina mark rather than a random whim/accident by an individual engraver whose error might have beenm spotted quite quickly and withdrawn, leading to some scarcity. Finding obverse die matches to other coins would be interesting but not necessarily deterministic as obverse dies may well be used between issues.

@Sulla80 Many thanks. An excellent find. It also looks like a reverse die match to my new example.

The CONSERVAT AVG type certainly does appear on Aurei from Ticinum.

Here is an example from the same obverse legend as yours. Lanz Auktion 147, November 2009.

I have a few of these CONSERVAT AVG from Ticinum. Here are a couple for comparison.

Obv:– IMP C M AVR PROBVS P F AVG, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from the front
Rev:– CONSERVAT AVG, Sol standing, looking left, right hand raised, left holding globe
Minted in Ticinum (TXXT in exe) Emission 2 Officina 2. A.D. 276
Reference:– RIC 347 var. Bust type C (front) (Not listed with this bust type in RIC)
Bust type C seen from the front is scarcer at this mint than those seen from the rear.

Obv:– IMP C PROBVS AVG CONS II, Radiate and cuirassed bust left wearing imperial mantle and holding eagle tipped scepter
Rev:– CONSERVAT AVG, Sol standing, looking left, right hand raised, left holding globe
Minted in Ticinum (TXXT) Emission 4, Officina 3. A.D. 278
Reference:– RIC 352 Bust type H

I am somewhat late to seeing this thread. Some fantastic coins. I only stumbled upon the thread after searching to see if there was a relevant thread for a new acquisition.

Just a Diocletian.... but it's a start....

Diocletian Follis

Obv:– IMP C DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG, Laureate bust right
Rev:– GENIO POPVLI ROMANI, Genius standing left, modius on head, naked but for chlamys over left shoulder, holding patera and cornucopiae; eagle at feet
Minted in Alexandria (_ | A //ALE). c. A.D. 295 - 296
Reference(s) – RIC VI Alexandria 18a (Rated C)

Struck under Domitius Domitianus

9.48 gms, 26.46 mm. 0 degrees

For people who have seen bits of my collection you will know that there are large chunks of it where I have managed to match dies between coins. Finding more reverse dies matched to single obverse dies is an active part of how I collect.

In this case however I am more excited because of the lack of a die match.

In the 9th Emission of Probus from Lugdunum the officina marks change to the letters A, B, C and D, sometimes retrograde, and are placed in the left and right fields on the reverse.

There is one exception to this. Bastien documents a reverse die where the officina mark is in the exe rather than the field. This is illustrated by two examples, both from the same die pair. Some years ago I was lucky enough to obtain my own example, which is also from the same die pair.

Obv:– IMP C PROBVS • P • F • AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right
Rev:– TEMPOR FELICIT, Felicitas standing right, holding caduceus and cornucopiae
Minted in Lugdunum (B in exe) Emission 9, Officina 1. January to August A.D. 282
Reference:– Cohen 727. Bastien 439. RIC 129 var. Bust type F

Over the years I have only seen one other example come onto the market, also from the same die pair.

So what?

The changing of the officina mark or the placement of the officina mark is normally used to differentiate between emissions at the mint. Is this an indications that the mint had started a 10th emission at Lugdunum, which had to be curtailed upon hearing of the death of the emperor?

Looking at the dating of the emissions at Lugdunum (Bastien) we can see that the 9th emission had been running for some time and could well have been due to change.

Emission 1 :- October A.D.276
Emission 2 :- November to December A.D. 276
Emission 3 :- Early A.D.277
Emission 4:- Mid to Late A.D.277
Emission 5 :- Late A.D. 277 to Early A.D. 278
Emission 6 :- A.D. 278 to A.D. 279
Emission 7 :- Summer A.D. 281
Emission 8 :- Autumn to End A.D. 281
Emission 9 :- January to August A.D. 282

A single die however does not lend credence to a new emission. It could have been an error by a single engraver. A second die might well strengthen this case.

Now my new acquisition. The same type with the officina mark in the exe.

Obv:– IMP C PROBVS • P • F • AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right
Rev:– TEMPOR FELICIT, Felicitas standing right, holding caduceus and cornucopiae
Minted in Lugdunum (B in exe) Emission 9, Officina 1. January to August A.D. 282
Reference:– Cohen 727. Bastien 439. RIC 129 var. Bust type F

3.64 gms, 23.19 mm. 0 degrees

This might just be the start of strengthening the case for a previously undocumented 10th emission running from some time around August A.D. 282 until the death of the emperor was notified. to the mint

Every now and then (far too often) I get distracted looking at coins and buy things that aren't in any way core to my collection. I bought the following four coins in a lot. The Gallienus panther from the "zoo series" is generally problem free but that isn't what caught my eye with this lot. It was the other three coins (1 x Claudius II Gothicus and 2 x Gallienus) that caught my eye as I liked the look of the problems that they exhibit that caught my eye. Each seems to exhibit issues from the point of manufacture. The mints must have been rushing coins out and quality control went out of the window. Coins from this period with manufacturing issues seem to be more prolific than at any other time of the Empire. The lot of four coins was extremely cheap (less than the price of a "meal deal" from any chain burger joint of your choice) and the education had from them has already more than paid the price of the coins.

Obv:– GALLIENVS AVG, Radiate head right
Rev:– LIBERO P CONS AVG, Panther walking left
Minted in Rome (B in exe). A.D. 260-268
Reference(s) – Göbl 713b. RIC V Part 1, 230

Hard, green surface adhesions

3.31 gms, 22.72mm. 0 degrees

The next three coins are the ones I could use some help with confirming my readings / attribution and the interpretation of the manufacturing issues with each.

Claudius II Gothicus, Antoninianus

Obv:– IMP CLAVDIVS AVG, radiate, cuirassed bust right
Rev:– VICTO[R]IA AVG, Victory standing left holding palm in left and wreath raised in right
Minted in Rome.
Reference:– RIC 105 ?

Lateral (vertical) double strike evident on reverse. This has led to the odd looking arm holding the wreath, the R has been lost from the reverse legend but is more clear with the double exergue. It almost looks as though the left side of the reverse is from one strike and the right side of the reverse is from the other strike. If there is a mintmark then I cannot make it out. There seems to be something under the lower exergue line but I cannot make anything from it.

3.65 gms, 23.10mm. 180 degrees

Gallienus Antoninianus

Obv:– GALLIENVS AVG, Radiate, draped bust right
Rev:– INDVLGENT AVG, Indulgentia seated left, holding branch and sceptre
Minted in Rome. [//P].
Reference(s) – RIC 205 ?

Here it looks as though the flan was oversized for the die leading to the areas from about 180 degrees to 225 degrees on both sides not having enough material to fill the die leading to the lack of detail in these areas. I believe that this is what is known as a flat strike. The reverse flan even seems to be convex leading to a hollow in the centre. The strike was strong enough to cause a flan crack.

I am not sure on my interpretation of the bust type. The lack of material here makes a definitive reading difficult for me. I would normally interpret this as Radiate, cuirassed but have leaned towards Radiate, draped and cuirassed.

2.70 gms, 25.29mm. 0 degrees

This is my most confusing of the four.

Gallienus Antoninianus

Obv:– GALLIENVS AVG, Radiate cuirassed bust right
Rev:– ABVNDANTA (sic) AVG, Abundantia standing right, emptying cornucopiae
Minted in Rome (B in Left field). A.D. 260-268
Reference(s) – cf. RIC V Part 1, 157. cf MIR 573

Again the oversized flan seems to have led to a centre flat strike. This time however the lack of detail in the centre of the obverse is nothing compared to what is going on on the reverse. Here we seem to have lost the entire top half of Abundantia. There is though a ghostly outline of what could be a clashed die showing the remnants of the bust where the top half of Abundantia should be. Again the force of the strike has cuase a flan crack. In this case however the crack, whcih has gone through both sides at the edge of the coin also goes part way through the reverse of the coin on the diagonal. The coin does not appear to be fragile but I don't think it would take a great deal of force for the coin two fall in two.

3.20 gms, 24.68mm. 225 degrees

I would appreciate any thoughts on my readings, attributions or interpretations.....

Martin

Thanks @Roman Collector. It is somewhat reassuring that I am not the only one.....

I was watching an auction, waiting for a particular coin lot to come up, a coin I was hoping was a sleeper and intending to bid many times the estimate if required to. It was a coin of Probus with a scarcer reverse legend variation that I had been chasing after for 20 years. I was all set up and watching the previous lots come up with prices staying low. As the coins go by I think that, whilst I don't need upgrades in my collection, the coins are going so cheaply that I could buy a few and sell them on for a profit if needed and the postage would be covered by my other lot. I bid a low ball bid on two coins and I win. I am feeling things are going my way. Two coins bought cheaply, my lot coming up, everything else is going at or below estimate.... what could go wrong.... It turns out that I wasn't the only one who spotted the scarce variant and the bidding was vigorous, starting low but soon was about 50% above what I thought would be my top end. I pulled out and was now left without the coin I had intended to buy and with two coins that I had't intended to buy. Ho hum. Time to suck it up, pay for them to be shipped as cheaply as possible and get on with chasing after other coins.

I honestly fogot about them and a package turned up 2 days before Christmas which I was puzzled by. I couldn't think what it could contain. Lo and behold, it was these two coins....

In the mean time about a week after the auction I was looking at the stock of French dealer and he had another example of the same scarce variation that I had been bidding on up for sale. It was at less than my top bid had been at the auction....

Here are my two "accidental" Probus purchases..... each is an upgrade to the existing coins in my collection in some way or other....

Obv:– IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG, Radiate cuirassed bust right
Rev:– LAETITIA AVGVSTI, Laetitia standing left holding wreath and staff
Minted in Lugdunum (IIII) Emission 3 Officina 4. Minted Start A.D. 277
Reference:– Cohen 329. Bastien 182 (29). RIC 31 Bust Type F

Fully silvered, Uneven strike.

4.02 gms, 22.25mm. 180 degrees

Obv:– IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from rear
Rev:– MARS VICTOR, Mars walking right, holding spear and trophy
Minted in Lugdunum (III in exe) Emission 6, Officina 3. 278 - 279 A.D.
Reference:– Cohen 337. Bastien 284. RIC 83 Bust type C

Nearly fully silvered

4.56 gms, 23.56 mm. 180 degrees

Has anyone else made similar aution mistakes?

I asked the site owners to intervene. He has now removed the item from sale.

Two more recent additions to my collection....

Constantius Chlorus - AE Follis

Obv:– CONSTANTIVS NOB CAES, Laureate head right
Rev:– GENIO POPVLI ROMANI, Genius standing left, modius on head, naked but for chalmys over left shoulder, right holding patera, left cornucopia
Minted in Lugdunum (//LB). c. A.D. 295
Reference:– RIC VI Lugdunum 6 (Rated scarce)

10.06 gms, 28.76 mm. 180 degrees

I am partricularly pleased with this one.

Galerius Follis

Obv:– G VAL MAXIMIANVS NOB C, Laureate, bust right
Rev:– GENIO POPV-LI ROMANI, Genius standing left, modius on head, naked but for chlamys over left shoulder, left hand holding cornucopiae and right hand holding patera
Minted in Lugdunum (//PLB).
References:– RIC VI Lugdunum 13b (R2). Bastien.7 b, pl. I (6 examples cited)

My next newest eastern Severan comes from one of my "flyspecking" areas of the COS II issue. There are a whole host of odd, short legend varieties, that I have made into a specialist sub-collection. I have nine different obverse dies in this sub-series in my collection and and trying to study die linkages in and between the issues.

This new coin is the third that I have with this particular obverse die.

Obv:– IM-P CA L SEP SE-V PER AVG COS II, laureate head right
Rev:– M-ONE-T AVG, Moneta standing left, holding scales in right hand, cornucopiae in left.
Minted in Emesa. A.D. 194 - 195
Reference:– RIC -. BMCRE -.

3.78 gms, 18.77 mm. 0 degrees

and here are the others die linked coins.....

Obv:– IMP CA L SEP SEV PER AVG COS II, Laureate head right
Rev:– BONA SPES, Spes standing holding flower and lifting skirt.
Minted in Emesa, A.D. 194
References:– RIC -, RSC -

2.90gms. 17.72mm. 0 degrees

Obv:– IM-P CA L SEP SE-V PER AVG COS II, laureate head right
Rev:– VIC-TO-R AVG, Victory walking left, holding wreath in right hand, palm in left.
Minted in Emesa. A.D. 194 - 195
Reference:– RIC 425 var (obverse legend).

I am just progessing my most recent couple of additions to this area of my collection.

I stopped actively collecting the late Laodicea-ad-Mare mint coins some time back making an exception for some of the more unusual types but these are typically well outside my budget. The only reason that I was able to buy this examples is because it is broken in a few places and as such of little or no interest to most colectors. It is of some interest to me however as it has an unusual bust type which I have not been able to add to my collection before. The denarii from this series typically come with a Laureate head right. Anything else is a major exception. @dougsmit showed a left facing bust above from the earlier COS II issue. In these later coins the unusual busts are either Laureate, draped and cuirassed or Laureate, cuirassed. I have owned a couple of draped and cuirassed coins but this is the first cuirassed coin I have had from this series. I am happy to give it a home despite being broken.

Obv:– L SEPT SEV PERT AVG IMP VIII, Laureate, cujirassed bust right; aegis on breastplate
Rev:– P M TR P V COS II P P, Pax seated left, holding branch and sceptre
Minted in Laodicea-ad-Mare, A.D. 196 - 197
References:– RIC 490a var (bust type), RSC 444 (bust type)

2.03 gms, 18.79 mm. 0 degrees

He has politely informed me that I am incorrect in my assessment that they are die matches.

I have been having a discussion with  dealer about a coin that they have listed.

They have described it as "uncertain provincial mint" and "subaeratus denarius" of Pertinax.

I have pointed out to them that it is in my opinion made from modern dies as are the following examples....

The dealer has been very polite but disagrees with my point of view. I have escalated to the "venue" to see if they can arbitrate between out differening viewpoints.