Egry

On 1/15/2023 at 10:53 AM, panzerman said:

I agree with you 100 percent. Nice thing is/ when you are down a bit/ what I do is sit down in the basement and look at these pieces of history just before bedtime. Usually have nice dreams after......

That coin was 6K including 20% fees/ in Euros = close to 9K Can. My Mother always regretted leaving Germany/ the crappy currency would be a good reason enough!!!! Canadians are at a huge disadvantage to rest of the World in their purchasing power. When we had a Conservative govt. back in 2010/ our money was over par with US$. That all went kaput with Trudeau.

 

$9k isn’t even that bad for that coin. I’d pay that in a heartbeat. If you come across another drop me a Pm.

Yep, I moved from Canada shortly after JT got into power. I’m not one to talk politics on this forum but I totally agree with you that he has been completely reckless with the the management of the country. FYI I’m from Sask originally so we are known not to be Trudeau supporters not PT or JT, so my comments may be biased. At least Pierre was intelligent, I’ll give him that. Politicians like JT are now a dime a dozen unfortunately. Here’s to hoping the pendulum swings back the other way. 

On 1/7/2023 at 11:14 PM, panzerman said:

 

thanks. That was the first Dukat I had ever seen in auction. CNG once had a 3/4 Dukat from series in their auction. Friedberg list 10 diff. denominations from 10/ 8 Dukaten down to 1/4 Dukat/ all are super rare.  But then any 10 or 8 Dukaten coins in high quality are 6 figures. Seems the original strikes are unique or MIA. However from 1725 -1845/ the aristocrats in Czarist Russia had some rare pieces struck from  original dies at St. Petersburg Mint. The "Novodels" struck in tiny numbers would be then collected by Grand Dukes/ nobility. Most novodels are known from less then five examples today.

I’m afraid to know how much that set you back, but totally worth it! 

Number 9 is so cool. I’ve never seen one like it before.

@ChrisB, thanks for the lead.

In Summary based on one’s of similar condition and most recent sale:

Hammer $3,969 USD + buyers (sold in 2019)

Hammer $1,058 USD + buyers (sold in 2108)

Hammer $2,200 USD + buyers (sold in 2018)

Hammer $1,506 USD + buyers (sold in 2016)

(for easy comparison) Below is the one I bought (in 2022) it was about $1,500 USD (includes buyers). Based on the above I think it was a fair price if not even A bit of a deal despite the small flan crack on rev at 12 o’clock. It’s definitely way better condition than the one that sold for $3,969 + buyers.

I agree keep it unslabbed while I own it. I do enjoy it! 
 

I think if it wasn’t at a little known local auction house it would have no likely commanded a higher hammer.  Opinion only.

@robinjojo it wasn’t cheap, obviously someone else besides me saw the value. Worked out to about the equivalent of €1500.

in hand the coin is better than EF in my opinion. I can’t believe I’m saying this but should I get it NGC graded and slabbed? 

A fellow coin collector from Germany who I’m in contact with via Reddit ( @Helvius Pertinax!, cheers mate) has provided me with this response, due to the obscure nature of this Thaler I thought it prudent to share:

”Okay, I finally found a good paper on the coin (which was a pain to access 😅). Information is quite scarce, we are talking about a relatively small and obscure duchy. I'll tell you what I found out now, since I doubt there is much more material I can access.

First, the attribution:

Duchy of Liegnitz and Brieg

Taler, 1607, Reichenstein mint (today Złoty Stok)

Obv: confronted busts, "through the grace of God, Johann Christian and Georg Rudolf, brothers"

Rev: coat of arms of Niederschlesien (lower Silesia) and Glogau

References: Davenport 7708, Fr.u.S. 1416
 

This piece was minted under Johann Christian zu Liegnotz und Brieg (1602-39) and Georg Rudolf zu Liegnitz (1602-53). It was minted on Reichenstein, which the father of the two dukes had bought in 1599. He got the minting privilege in 1601 from Emperor Rudolf II. After his death, the duchy was split between J.C., who ruled from Brieg and G.R., who ruled from Wohlau. From 1605-12, Christoph Tuchmann was engraver at the Reichenstein mint, I am not sure though, if he was responsible for this coin type.

Due to the small size of the duchy, they didn't mint a lot of coins which makes them somewhat rare. I've seen sold listings for 800€, 1000, 1200, 3600 and 3750, thats all I can access. I'd say due to the good shape your piece is in its likely worth more than 2000€, but im really not an expert on pricing modern coins.“

please note that the above was provided to me by someone who I believe is way more knowledgeable than me. Once permission is provided I will give credit to him via his Reddit tag. 

Hi All,

I recently picked up this Thaler as an addition to my collection. The core of my collection is ancients but I will dabble in colonial and pre 1800s world coins if the opportunity arises. Like most the large German states thalers can sometimes be irresistible and I pick them up when one catches my eye.

This one I picked up at a local coin auction, honestly I took a complete chance buying it purely due to its condition and appeal, and that little voice in my head resulting in me ‘needing’ to add it to my collection.

I’m just wondering if there are any local experts on this type of Thaler? Possibly someone that can offer advice on the history, rarity, value?

I did find some info on numista  https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces93124.html however I find with some German coins that if you don’t speak the language your search result may can be limited.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
 

Looks real to me, just a bit clapped-out as per the majority of Nero denarii 

Very nice.

here is my DJ,

1 hour ago, Orange Julius said:

That’s a beautiful set! I think you need a Gordian III as Caesar to fit in there! 

Good point, I’ll look for one 

Here are the ones mentioned and a couple other Gordians.

Haha I don’t collect antiquities either but I always wanted a ring but every one I see is usually such poor condition. I saw this one on Roma and it was mint condition with the provenance as well, I had no idea how much they were worth but kept bidding to get it. Looks like I was the one that bid it up for you unfortunately, but you did get a nice ring. 

On 8/11/2022 at 7:53 AM, robinjojo said:

On an on and off basis, mostly off, I've been looking for a Roman antiquity.  Now, there are quite a few ways to go, a figurine, a marble head, ceramic, glass, mosaic, or jewelry, to name a few.  I really was looking for some small but interesting, something that has personality.

Roman intaglio silver rings are pretty common.  Some are very elegantly done, with very skillful and artistic carvings of deities, animals, portraits and figures.  Those are all fine, but I was looking for something out of the ordinary and I think that I found it with this ring.  The preservation is good and the stone, which I think is jasper, has a very imaginative figure, a conglomeration of human, animal and mythological elements.  It doesn't have any apparent chips, fractures, nor do I detect any repairs, using my UV light.

This ring, which turned out to be rather pricey, came out of Roma's E-Sale 100, lot 1737.  This ring came from Altstetten Collection, according to the description.  However, my online search for this collection yielded zilch.  Is anyone familiar with this collection?

Here's the lot description from E-Sale 100:

"Roman Silver and Hardstone Ring. Circa 3rd - 4th Century AD. Octagonally faceted gnostic intaglio, set in silver shank with broad shoulders, engraved with gryllus head, composed of human head with pointed chin, with birds' legs, wearing tall cap in the form of a maned-horse's head holding frond in its mouth. 11.35g, 11mm (intaglio).

Condition as seen.

From the Altstetten Collection, kept in the vault of Crédit Suisse Geneva (documentation available upon request) since 26 November 1969."

The ring itself measures 25mm x 15mm.

So, I think this will be my only Roman antiquity.  I need to be careful not to have a monstrous accumulation in the end resembling the warehouse scene at the end of Citizen Kane!

Although I'm very happy you acquired this ring I am very disappointed that it didn't join my collection...

I was the bidder that lost to you.

@thenickelguy

Nice collection. I especially appreciate the Canadian 1925 call out. 
 

Now do you have a Canadian 1926 Far ‘6’?

11 hours ago, Hrefn said:

This Friday I attended the Bay State Coin Show.  In years past, this event was held in Boston, though now it is in a venue close to the intersection of the 495 and the Massachusetts Turnpike I-90.   It is still a big show, though heavily skewed toward dealers in US coins.  The increase in BP by major auction houses was a topic of discussion with the few ancient coin dealers.  One of them professed his delight with the increases.  His rationale is that such increases make his business model more competitive, both for his customers and for those who sell to him.  His margins on many coins is less, he says, than the auction houses charge.  I may have reinforced his opinion, because I bought two coins from him.  I must say it was refreshing to pay the sticker price without BP, currency conversion, 3.5% credit card fee, shipping, customs fee, customs delay, handling fee, etc.,etc.   Plus the opportunity to pick up the coin and examine it in hand before purchase is not negligible. 

The downside is the allure of the coins in the next tray, and the next tray.  And the next tray.  

Very good point. 

29 minutes ago, Dwarf said:

No one ever mentioned taxes!

Only referring to VAT

1 - may be added to the complete auction price plus premium (Künker did this in the 2nd Preussag auction in London, meaning 50% plus - didn't affect prices!)

2 - may be added just on the premium (different % as to country)

3 - dealer may use the margin scheme

4 - customs sometimes want its share.

Depending whether you are a dealer or a private buyer and where you are living and from whom you are buying the overall premium may vary for roughly 20% to 50%.
To my opinion adding premiums to prices in acsearch or CA won't help.

Regards
Klaus

Who is working with a very helpful excel-sheet taking regard of premium, VAT and exchange rates

 

That’s how I roll mate. Assuming a 20% auction BP, exchange and import tax add another 15%. Typically a total of 35% 

30 minutes ago, Severus Alexander said:

I don’t think I’ve missed your point. Let me try to do a better job of explaining what I mean to see if there’s any remaining disagreement.

I’m saying you need to ask what determined that 150 hammer in your example.  Another bidder, of course. How did they come up with their max bid?  Well, if they did it like you, me, and @Egry do, and I daresay like most of us on the board, they figured it out by including all their expenses. So, ignoring shipping, and supposing the bid increment is 10, their max all-in at 20% was 140 + 28 = 168, or basically 170.  That’s how they came up with their bid of 140.  You end up paying 150 x 1.2, as you say, i.e. 180.

Had the BP been only 10%, their all-in max would be the same, but they would have bid more to arrive at that max.  They would have bid either 150 or 160, giving them an all-in cost of 165 or 176, as close as they can get to their target all-in of 170 given the increment. (The increment always decreases flexibility meaning our numbers won’t be exactly on target.) And what do you end up paying in this case? Either 160 x 1.1 = 176, or  170 x 1.1 = 187, which averages out to 181.50, in effect the same as the 180 you were paying in the other scenario with the 20% BP. So unless you’re talking about that negligible $1.50, you pay the same either way. That’s what I meant, but didn’t explain very well.

That of course assumes your underbidder’s bidding behaviour is determined by an all-in target cost, which it should be. Not everyone does as they should, though, so as I acknowledged to Curtisimo, an increase in the BP can indeed have an effect on us, the “rational bidders,” when the bidders who ignore all-in costs bid higher than they should. 

Well explained.

another way to inadvertently increase the ‘BP’ is increase the increment. An increment of $10 now becomes $20 or $50.  Just enough to skim off another 1% without anyone knowing:)

10 minutes ago, TheTrachyEnjoyer said:

My point is that any hammer under your max bid and your total invoice comes out to more than it would have before

I guess that’s true if you just set a max bid and disregard all other expenses. I don’t do that, possibly some do. 

3 minutes ago, TheTrachyEnjoyer said:

No. 
 

What I am saying is:

Lets say your max is 200 before a 20% BP
192 before a 25% BP
208 before a 15% BP

Hammer is 150

150 x 1.20
150 x 1.25
150 x 1.15

You pay more with a higher BP

I’m not sure if I’m an outlier but when I purchase a coin regardless of where it’s being sold I set the total price I’m willing to pay then back calculate BP, import tax, shipping, exchange rate. My max bid is based on my total price minus all the expenses, therefore if the buyers premium goes up it results in my max bid being lower to compensate. 

4 hours ago, quant.geek said:

You should check out the following channel on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/c/tastinghistory). Max Miller has posted videos about Garum and Roman dishes he has prepared.  He tries to make the dishes as authentic as possible with the ingredients he sources and is very honest about the outcome (positive or negative) wrt. taste. Its a series that I enjoy watching. Here is the episode on Garum:

 

Here is a fish coin to celebrate your garum...

Imperial Chola: Raja Raja I (ca. 1007) AE Kasu (Biddulph-21)

Obv: King half seated, with raised arm on right; Devanagari legend beneath raised arm; श्री राजा राजा (Sri Raja Raja)
Rev: Standing man, with lamp on left and fish on right, representing the the Pandya conquest

Awesome! Thanks, I’ll check this series out. 

1 hour ago, DLTcoins said:

Your lips to God's ears! 🤣

I don’t understand?  

Almost all the staff would have to be highly trained, most in a very niche skill like numismatics, with the others in international commerce and business.

I know first hand what it’s like to have to find, pay, and keep good professional employees. It is not cheap. Firstly, they don’t make minimum wage nor should they, secondly you don’t want to lose them because if you do there goes about 6months of their wage training someone else. 
 

I would without a doubt say that wages are any auction houses largest business expense. For example using a round number of $100,000/annum as an average salary, this is not outrageous for anyone that is an expert in their field or highly skilled staff. That equates to gross $8,300/month add all other benefits, etc the employer has to pay, say round up to $10k/month. Say they have 10 employees that’s $100k/month just in wages, not rent, taxes, or anything else. 
 

I’m not defending the increased BP by any means, but can see why they need it to help keep up with rising costs.

25 minutes ago, Kali said:

I'm curious what the shelf life of it is, consider a lot goes along way.

I’d say due to its salt content it should be right for a long while 

You have every right to defend, and people on here have every right to complain.

However, I’m data driven. If someone puts the numbers to me that make sense then I’ll understand.

looking at it now (these are total guesstimates) say you have on average 1,500 coins per sale/month, and on average each coin sells for $400, and you take a BP of 20% ( I’m assuming you aren’t taking any premium from the seller, probably not correct?). That leaves you with approx $120k monthly gross turnover. Considering wages for expert professional staff (they aren’t just pumping gas), rent, tax, equipment, IT, and searching for stock, that’s really just getting by paying everyone a wage with a staff of say 10 or so.
 

You really would need some big signature sales with high value coins or above 1500 coins per sale to start bringing in a good profit. 
 

so really adding another 2% (or 10% increase on your fee) onto the BP will help but I can’t see it really changing the game. Big game changers would be more volume of high grade coins. 
 

TOTAL DISCLOSURE OF ABOVE - all those figures are made up and complete guess. 

5 minutes ago, Richard Beale said:

That's just my data set. It will vary from auction house to auction house, particularly depending on the type of coins they are selling. NAC for example, who do not handle 'low value' coins, will have seen the greatest % increase. Low value coins, which make up the bulk of the market, have seen little to no rise in prices, the mid range has seen a moderate rise, and the top 1% or less of high value coins account for the greatest rise in prices. 

Ya I’ve realized my place in this conversation. This is your business literally. 
 

just for my own info what price ranges do you classify low, mid, high?