Orange Julius

22 hours ago, thenickelguy said:

Diocletian AE radiate fraction. 296 AD.

Obverse IMP CC VAL DIOCLETIANVS PF AVG, radiate, draped, cuirassed bust right

Reverse CONCORDIA MIL-ITVM, Emperor standing right, receiving Victory on globe from Jupiter, standing left, holding sceptre.

Crescent over B in lower centre. Mintmark ANT
RIC VI Antioch Mint 62A, B

 

Diocletian was the notorious persecutor of Christians. From what I understand, they were subjected to slavery in mines, tortured, burned alive and even death by beasts.

The reason for this is not that they were Christians but more that Diocletian saw them increasing in great numbers and considered them a threat to the belief in traditional gods.

Every opportunity was given to Christians to acknowledge the gods, and the emperors even introduced an amnesty for imprisoned clergy if they simply performed a sacrifice to the gods.

Diocletian favored Jupiter and Hercules for guidance and usually had his soothsayers interpret the gods direction which would certainly not be favorable for the Christians, and Diocletian left it to the senate and other leaders the vote and conclude on decisions. This way he wouldn't be the sole person to blame when such things as persecution was enforced.

It was in his time that Christians suffered more than under any other Roman ruler.

 

Nice coin and supporting information!

I do have to challenge one detail. Was Diocletian’s time really the time when Christians suffered the worst? And even if it was bad, Dio C was probably not the worst persecutor of his time (Galerius or later Maximinus II?). I was thinking the times in the early to mid-250s sounded pretty rough too (Decius/Valerian).

Which emperor was THE hardest on Christianity and those that practiced the religion? 

Here’s a fun Diocletian with Jupiter with man-bun hair, standing next to giant kabobs for the grill, holding a squid and his pet crow at his feet.

Edit: ok, I read the wiki on Diocletian’s persecution and it sounds like a bummer. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletianic_Persecution

Still! Diocletian can’t be the meanest, nastiest, lion feeder out there. His historical rep is too positive. 

6 hours ago, Severus Alexander said:

That ringstone is sure cool!!  I'd love to get an issue of Gordian as Caesar, but no luck yet.  I'm sure @Finn235 has one though!

Here's my first issue Rome (238), like yours:

Though I'm guessing this is later in that issue than yours, as the portrait is taking on more of that characteristic cartoonish Gordie look.  Personally I prefer the style on yours.  Great coin!

I also have a first issue Antioch dating to 238-9:

I kind of like the cruder style on these.  (They're often mistaken for Rome mint by dealers, so you can sometimes snag a bargain.)

And I recently snagged this Pupienus.  It's in line for a photo this weekend!

I like the AMOR MVTVVS legend. In actual fact there was no love lost between Balbinus the lawyer and Pupienus the general, and their bickering ultimately cost them their lives.  I like both of them, though, as they attained high office under Severus Alexander.  In fact the whole senatorial coup against Maximinus was partly motivated by revenge for SA's death.  SA ruled in cooperation with the Senate, whereas Maximinus likely loathed and despised them.

There's a great series of novels by Harry Sidebottom about this period: Iron & Rust.  (Although I must say I don't like how he just swallows Herodian's account of the end of Sev Alex's life, i.e. full of snivelling!  I'm biased though. 😄)

@Severus Alexander That's a nice VICTORIA AVG Gordie! Mine is interesting as... it's not like they didn't know what he looked like. They'd been minting coins for him as Caesar for a time and had been getting that portrait right. I'd like to know how it looks like Balbinus... maybe the Balbinus guy had to fill in for the Gordian guy after a long night at the taverns. As many Gordies as I have, I think all of them are from Rome. Seeing your coin, gives me a budget friendly target, Antioch coins! I also like that Pupienus. Seeing so many in this thread makes me feel maybe they aren't as hard to find as I'd thought. I wish there were more primary sources from the period to learn more. As far as I know, the only one we have is Herodian.

5 hours ago, Finn235 said:

Beautiful coins!

238 is a really tough set, but I *almost* have it completed

Maximinus' TRP IIII would have started in December 237 and ended in March 238 when the Senate declared him a public enemy in favor of the Gordians

I don't think you can attribute their coins to a particular year, but I have his son Maximus

And wife Paulina

 

Then I got this super budget (read: less than $1k) Gordian I last year

No luck with his son, sadly - he and Constantius III are the last two "official" emperors missing from my collection, except for last few puppet emperors.

My favorite - Pupienus

And Balbinus

And as @Severus Alexander correctly guessed, Gordian III as their Caesar

And I'm not sure how to differentiate between all the different emissions, but I'm pretty sure this Gordy III is very early - the bust even looks somewhat like a re-worked Balbinus

@Finn235 I love the diversity of your collection. You've got about everyone! That Balbinus and the Pupienus are really terrific. I hate to ask but what's the ball park price for landing the pair?

4 hours ago, Octavius said:

 Antoninianus of Pupienus.  I have to work on getting a Balbinus.

 

Great toning on that one @Octavius. You've got some wonderful coins. I was just marveling at some of your Marcus Aurelius sestertius portraits in another thread. Pupienus looks like one of those old school philosopher types. I don't think anyone else would watch but a sitcom like the 80s show "Perfect Strangers" but featuring Pupienus and Balbinus living together would be must watch TV for me.

4 hours ago, Marsyas Mike said:

It does look a little like Balbinus!  I never noticed this.  The emissions thing confuses me too... Here's mine: 

Gordian III Æ Sestertius Late April-July 29, 238 A.D. Rome Mint M ANT GORDIANVS CAES, bare-headed, draped bust right / [PIET]AS AVG[G] S C in exergue, jug between lituus, secespita and patera left, simpulum and aspergillum right. RIC 3; Cohen 183; BMC 64-66.  (21.33 grams / 29 mm) eBay June 2021 Notes:  "In response to popular pressure shortly after their own elevation to imperial status, the emperors Balbinus and Pupienus adopted Gordian as Caesar.  This scarce coin was part of a limited and formal coinage produced for Gordian." Wildwinds

That's a great-looking ringstone in the OP.  I wonder if the mint workers moonlighted as jewelers on the weekends?  

 

@Marsyas Mike That Gordian as Caesar is a find! I'd love to find one of those. I chased one but after I believed I had a shot, it skyrocketed out of reach price wise. I'm looking out and hope go get one soon. 

1 hour ago, GregH said:

I have a complete 238AD set, but it's a mishmash of denominations.

I've just taken a special photo just for this thread. In the palm of my hand i hold:
(top to bottom, left to right)

- sestertius of Maximus
- denarius of the Tobey Maguire lookalike, Gordy III
- denarius of his uncle, Gordian II
- sestertius of Paulina
- denarius of the gargantuan Mr Thrax (i believe this one was minted in the early days of his reign, because it lacks the characteristic super-chin)
- an antoninianus of the grumpy old Pupienus
- sestertius of gramps - Gordian I
- a provincial from Tarsus of the other grumpy old man, Balbinus
- Tranquillina, as she appears on a debased tetradrachm.

My goal is to replace my provincials with imperials - and also find silver/bronze companion pieces.

 

Dang @GregH, that's a really cool and eclectic mix. I like the different denominations, it gives a really interesting and varying look at a very precise period in time. I guess I didn't realize Balbinus was around long enough for many provincials to be minted. That's a really cool coin. If you get around to flipping those, I hope you list them here in the "Cabinet"!

While I don't have any of the rarer or pricer personalities of 238, I do have a few more 1st issue Gordian III coins and a nice Maximus Thrax from 237 that I guess is unphotographed. 

Gordian III - Rome - FIDES MILITVM - 238 ad - RIC IV 1

Gordian III - Rome - PROVIDENTIA AVG - 238 ad - RIC IV 4

7 hours ago, Roman Collector said:

I have neither Pupienus nor Balbinus. You know how it is.

I have lots of Gordian III coins, but I'll just show this sestertius.


Gordian III, AD 238-244.
Roman Æ sestertius, 24.30 gm, 28.7 mm, 12 h.
Rome, AD 240.
Obv: IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust, right.
Rev: LIBERTAS AVG SC, Libertas standing left, holding pileus and scepter.
Refs: RIC 318a; Cohen 153; RCV 8717; Hunter 147.

 

That sestertius is a beauty. I like the dark uniform patina.

5 hours ago, Ryro said:

Here's my busted Balbinus. Thankfully my Pupienus isn't busted😜

And the little nerd himself

Was going to make a Taco Bell joke here but thankfully reeled myself back in. That Pupienus is a nice looking coin. That’s probably the cost/quality bullseye I’m looking to find myself!

1 hour ago, DonnaML said:

That is an amazing ringstone. I can't say I see a resemblance to Gordian III's portraits (other than being young), but I do recognize Pupienus and Balbinus.  I have one coin, a denarius, issued by each of those two. Each has the same reverse, depicting the  Genius of the Senate, togate, standing front, head left, holding an olive branch in his extended right hand, and a short transverse scepter in his left hand:

And here are a denarius and antoninianus from Gordian III, showing, respectively, Gordian on horseback and Apollo with his lyre on the reverses:

Finally, here are Gordian III and his wife Tranquillina, with confronted busts, on an AE 26 from Anchialus in Thrace (today's Pomorie, Buglaria), also depicting Apollo on the reverse:

Great coins as always Donna! I remember you getting and posting about those two denari. That Pupienus is especially a beauty. I think it’s his fabulous beard that makes his coins look so awesome looking.

52 minutes ago, Spaniard said:

Amazing ring Stone!

@Orange Julius..Lovely Gordian too, does look a little "Balbinish"?...

Here's mine with a much more serious looking portrait.

 

That’s a sweet Gordie! I like the look on Hercules' face in the reverse. My version of this coin has the worst portrait I’ve seen in a Gordian coin. It’s pretty ugly… he looks like he just woke up from a 3 day bender and is wondering what he’s done.

36 minutes ago, Qcumbor said:

Great ringstone, never seen that before

 

 

Q

Q, every time you post these coins I drool over them. When I think of Pupienus or Balbinus coins… yours are the ones that define these coins in my mind. If you ever decide to sell them, I call dibs on them.

38 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

I like the Balbinus, Puppienus and (lovely) Gordianus Collection area... but its not possible to collect all coins.... or? 😄 

Oh how I wish I had the resources to collect everything I’m interested in. They say money can’t buy happiness… but it can buy a lot of sweet coins that definitely wouldn’t make me sad.

34 minutes ago, Spaniard said:

Amazing ring Stone!

@Orange Julius..Lovely Gordian too, does look a little "Balbinish"?...

Here's mine with a much more serious looking portrait.

 

Yes mine is a very early Gordian, minted in late 238, not long after his promotion from Caesar. It’s one of my favorites as it does have that Balbinish look to it.

I’m loving the Pupienus and Balbinus coins posted above ☝🏻 !

I have a ton (maybe 50) Gordian coins but no Pupienus and Balbinus yet. 😭 What’s the going ratio for Pupies and Balbis to Gordies these days? 25/1?

I've never understood why someone could hate Faustina II so badly! Could be a weight or a game piece but someone wanted to mark this as... not a coin.

3 hours ago, Magnus Maximus said:

@seth77

That brings up another question that has been bugging me lately; What happened to the AE-2 size bronze coins? As far as I can tell, Maximus was the last Emperor to issue the denomination in the West. Furthermore, aside from the rare Cherson AE-2 issues that are only found in Ukraine, the “denomination” seems to have been dead by the time of Arcadius’s sole rule in the East. 
Was inflation so bad post the civil wars of 388 and 392, that the denomination was discontinued? 

Seems so! Although Magnus Maximus was an interesting figure, his grab for power was a huge domino in the final fall of the western empire. What's interesting to me is how fast after about 395/400 ad the coinage completely goes in the toilet. Even through Arcadius and Honorius, the coins were... meh but ok. They were still substantial and struck alright on ok flans. At the end of the 4th century, the empire seemed to be in free fall monetarily with the masses. 

I just saw this ringstone on Facebook and found it really interesting due to the limited and interesting timeframe it was engraved.

From the post, “A very special red jasper: the ringstone depicts three imperial busts: Pupienus (left), Balbinus (right) and Gordian III. Pupienus and Balbinus were in mid-February 238 n. Chr. raised by senate. However, since the Roman population did not yet quite fourteen-year-old Prince Gordian III. wanted to be the Emperor, he was declared Caesar ("Junior Kaiser") a few days later (although on the 1st) March 238). As Caesar, he does not wear a laurel wreath. The ringstone is said to have been made for a high official or officer who served the three Emperors in those weeks. 99 days later, the two Upper Emperors were brutally murdered by the Praetorians in Rome and Gordian III. proclaimed to be a king (7th) June 238). Coins were minted for all three emperors during their joint rule, but none shows Pupienus, Balbinus and Gordian III. together in the picture. Thus, the ringstone reproduces a singular composition that most likely dates back to a painting template.”

* seems like the post was translated so there are some grammatical errors.

It won’t let me post the link to the post but search Facebook for the Staatliche Münzsammlung München.

Anyway… super cool. Let’s see your coins from 238ad or those shown on the ring stone!

Gordian III
Obv: IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG - Radiate bust right, draped and cuirassed

Rev: VICTORIA AVG - Victory walking left, holding wreath and palm

Rome mint AD June 12, 238-Dec 238 (1st Issue, 6th officina)

RIC IViii, 5 - Cohen 357

Lately I feel like Gallienus. Things are a mess, I’m clawing tooth and nail to keep things together but everyone is thinking “well, he’s not very nice.” Haha. I can only hope that, like Gallienus, hindsight leads people to realize, ‘yeah he was handed a pile of turds and did what could be done considering.’

I’m working toward a more Trajanesque status. Forward!

I like the new photo. The old one was too dark. I struggle with photos that are too dark myself… and am working on making better images but it’s not easy!

Not scholarly research but I’ve had people like Andrew McCabe help me with anonymous RR bronzes and Curtis Clay provide valuable contextual information on Severan coins and others. It’s cool to get these and many other experts look at my scrappy budget buys.

I mentioned two experts that came to mind… but here, at FORVM and at CT, there are many very knowledgeable people/experts to help across many topics (Ptolemaic, Flavian, Probus, Byzantine, etc.). We’re lucky to be able to connect so easily these days to such a wide variety of people interested in ancient coins and the history attached to them.

Great snacks all! 

Here’s a snack I recently received $0.99… plus $10 shipping split between 2 $0.99 coins… so let’s call it $6 total for this one. 

It’s a scarce variation of the galley theme also used on the more common GLORIA ROMANORVM coins of the era. This coin is an AE3 rather than AE2 and has the reverse legend VIRTVS AVGGG. This coin is said to be the first reverse issued for Valentinian II after fleeing Italy for safety under Theodosius I from Magnus Maximus.

Trajan Decius from Dacia. I’m sure someone will be along shortly with more specific reference information.

Edit: similar to this: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3321445

On 6/25/2022 at 9:01 PM, Egry said:

Saturninus? Am I reading that right? 

@Alegandronwas referring to the Probus coin.

There was a FORVM thread awhile back about new research on a 4th eastern mint for certain Probus coins.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=107510.msg658159#msg658159

From my post in that old thread: An interesting “detail about this "4th eastern mint" is that, according to S. Estiot's paper, it's operation was a direct result of the revolt of the Syrian governor Saturninus in 280.

Translated (by google) from her paper linked below: "operation of the 4th East workshop whose existence (is) all circumstantial, was only due to the need to fight an usurper (Saturninus) - it only worked a few months, from mid-280 to early 281."

https://www.academia.edu/29744478/L_Empereur_et_l_usurpateur_un_4e_atelier_oriental_sous_Probus
To translate a pdf: https://translate.google.com/?tr=f&hl=en”

Here is mine:

Here’s a great resource that I use a lot for Gallienus and family: http://www258.pair.com/denarius/coinage.htm

Valentinian I
DN VALENTINI-ANVS PF AVG, diademed bust, draped and cuirassed on the right

RESTITV-TOR REIP, Emperor standing facing, head right, holding labarum and Victory on globe, ALEA with the exergue

Alexandria - 364/367 - RIC 2 a 1 (S) - Cohen 21 - NBC 414 - NBD 59803 - 16 mm / 2.29 g 

3 minutes ago, Orange Julius said:

13 minutes ago, Spaniard said:

Been sweating over here for more than a month now around 40 degrees 🥵....

Licinius I AE Follis 20mm/3.43gr (Emperors name Misspelled)

Obverse-IMP LICINVS PF AVG- laureate, cuirassed bust right

Reverse-REV SOLI INVICTO COMITI- Sol standing right, looking left, chlamys across chest and over his left arm, holding globe and raising right hand. C-S across fields

Exergue-PARL- minted 313-318AD Arles

Oh that’s a nice coin with good looking surfaces and relief! Sol looks very well detailed too. Your coin from Arles reminded me of another coin I have, also from the Constantinian era and from the same city.

Constantine II - CLARITAS REIPVB = "brightness of the Republic"

RIC VII Arles 157, 318 AD

Loving that summer is here. Winters are too long where I live. Here’s a rare Aurelian with Sol!

Aurelian, IMP C AVRELIANVS AVG, SOLI INVICTO / Star S, Siscia, spring 274.
Unlisted in RIC, RIC temp #2236

Only two old black and white reference coins at MER-RIC, neither as nice: https://ric.mom.fr/en/coin/2236

Note: I did submit this coin to the MER-RIC program (as they request examples when they have less than 5) back in 2015 but never received a reply.

Nice coin! Set it free! What I do is take a fine toothed saw or file to one of the seams near a corner. Once I’ve made a bit of a cut along the seam, I use a screwdriver to pry the two halves apart. This usually cracks them without totally destroying the plastic and keeps sharp or prying tools away from the coin. There are a lot of methods to cracking them… some likely easier than mine but it works.

18 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

@Orange Julius, a fantastic set. How do you think your example from Arles ended up with all those different colors? It looks like a Crayola box!

Thank you! I have some ugly ducklings hiding from Rome, Thessalonica and another mint or two that are escaping me. So… not all beauties but I love them all anyway. As for the coin from Arles, I really like that one too! It’s so cool looking, I bought it at a fabulous price from @Victor Clark! I’m not sure where all of the colors came from but I treasure it because of them. As for that coin, one interesting tidbit… there is an eagle at the top of the wreath that is included at no other mint. This eagle is included on other Julian coins from Arles at the time (Bull coins and others). There’s an interesting article about the eagle here: edit… can’t get the link to work so search “Julian, Arles, and the Eagle” by David Woods

12 hours ago, Riley said:

Only one I have is this one

 

 RIC VIII Alexandria 91. I believe

It looks like your coin from Alexandria and mine are long lost friends! (Obviously not die matches but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were carved by the same hand!)

An interesting topic. Great coins! I have a few of the Alexandrian issues. Below are my two best.

Constantine - Alexandria - RIC VII 17 

Licinius I - Alexandria - RIC VII 18

2 hours ago, thenickelguy said:

RIC V-1 Rome 277.

I don’t think it matters too much the order… Rome, RIC V-1 277. I just notice you have 277 also listed as the mint date too. I think these coins had to be minted in 270 or not long after.

1 hour ago, thenickelguy said:

Today I will be Divo Claudius II

Finding out my recent post of Claudius II turned out to be a posthumous mule.

I'll be back to normal tomorrow.

Oh man…. Devo Claudio with that pic would be such a great avatar and user name!