OLD (HABSBURG) HABITS DIE HARD...PHILIP I ,"LE BEAU"..FATHER OF 2 Holy Roman Emperors

[ominus1]

...just got this in today, and i kinda like it...this guy was a major link in the Habsburgs literally ruling most of the world for a time..his sons Charles V and Ferdinand l would become HRE's..now on to Maximillian l ! 🙂

Post Away Peeps! 🙂

Philip the Handsome (22 July 1478 – 25 September 1506), also called the Fair, was ruler of the Burgundian Netherlands and titular Duke of Burgundy from 1482 to 1506, as well as the first Habsburg King of Castile (as Philip I) for a brief time in 1506

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[JeandAcre]

Very cool, @ominus1.  I had no idea the Habsburgs went back that far in Spain.

I'm really on the wrong foot for Holy Roman emperors later than late Ottonians and Salians, starting from, oops, the end of the 10th century.  And every one of them has been posted already.  

Well, wait, here's a relatively late one, which hasn't been posted for a minute.  It's a denaro from Milan, c. Heinrich III, mid-11th c., to V, a little ways into the 12th.  Immobilized that long, making it a de facto civic issue.  From here, the style looks as if it's on the late side of the whole range.  I have to like how the concavity of the flan evokes, for instance, the influence of Byzantine trachys on  Norman issues in southern Italy and Sicily from the same broad period.

Obv.  In field: \HE [ellided] / RIC / N  ('HENRIC' --with a little imagination.)

Rev.  Slightly garbled rendering of 'MEDIOLANUM.'

And for Burgundy, I can't do much better; they run from later 11th-later /mid-13th.  This is my latest.

 

Hugues IV, Duke of the original, cadet Capetian line, 1218-1272 (right, funly contemporary to Henry III).  Denier of  Dijon.

Obv.  VGO BVRGVNDIE.  'DUX' in field.  Rev.  DIVIONENSIS.

[JeandAcre]

Hi @ominus1, I just ran into this, from the best medieval dealer listing on US ebay ...in my, snicker, humble opinion.  Yep, he's based in Estonia, but no worries!  I've been buying from him for years, and have never once had any problem with the shipping. More generally, he's solidly good people.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266193209555

Just thought you should have this as an option.  Nope, I'm not bidding on (woops; another edit:) buying it --although the thought did cross my mind!  I've yet to get one of these German ones that somewhat mysteriously imitate the obverse of Henry III's Irish pennies, with the portrait in the triangle.  (Edit:) Yes, the clipping and legend loss are less than great (if pretty typical), but the motifs go a long way toward compensating for that.

Edited June 24, 2023 by JeandAcre

[ominus1]

1 hour ago, JeandAcre said:

Hi @ominus1, I just ran into this, from the best medieval dealer listing on US ebay ...in my, snicker, humble opinion.  Yep, he's based in Estonia, but no worries!  I've been buying from him for years, and have never once had any problem with the shipping. More generally, he's solidly good people.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266193209555

Just thought you should have this as an option.  Nope, I'm not bidding on it --although the thought did cross my mind!  I've yet to get one of these German ones that somehwhat mysteriously imitate the obverse of Henry III's Irish pennies, with the portrait in the triangle.  (Edit:) Yes, the clipping and legend loss are less than great (if pretty typical), but the motifs go a long way toward compensating for that.

thanks..he's on the list....:)  i've got  Maximillian and Frederrick lll lined up   and as a a funny...going back far enough for the Habsburg HRE's  i 've run into the Germans Louis that i need for THAT collection on the same page.  ain't that funny...o-1 

Seal/Portrait	Name	King	Emperor	Ended	Notes	R.
	Louis II the German    (Ludwig der Deutsche)[1]	c.10 August 843	—	28 August 876	Son of Emperor Louis the Pious and grandson of Charlemagne	[2]
	Carloman (Karlmann)	28 August 876	—	22 March 880	Son of Louis the German ruled in Bavaria; from 876, also King of Italy	[3]
	Louis III the Younger (Ludwig der Jüngere)	22 March 880	—	20 January 882	Son of Louis the German ruled in East Francia, Saxony; from 880, also Bavaria	[4]
	Charles III the Fat  (Karl der Dicke)[5]	20 January 882	12 February 881	c.11 November 887	Son of Louis the German ruled in Alemannia, Raetia, from 882 in the entire Eastern Kingdom; from 879, also King of Italy	[6]
	Arnulf of Carinthia (Arnulf von Kärnten)	c.27 November 887	25 April 896	8 December 899	Illegitimate son of Carloman	[7][8]
	Louis IV the Child (Ludwig

[JeandAcre]

Yipes, it didn't register that you're about going back as far as this!  Serious best with your endeavors.  ...Right, maybe Louis the German should be called 'Ludwig' --granted that I've never seen a secondary source that actually does that.

[ominus1]

1 hour ago, JeandAcre said:

Louis

its amazing how many ways there are to spell and pronounce that...:)

[JeandAcre]

Yesss!  I got into this on the old forum, but here's how much I know.

Right, to all appearances, the name's origin is archaic Germanic.  At least from Carolingian times (especially in reference to, Yep, coin legends), it then gets Latinized as Ludovicus --with the variant, which 'smells' Germanic, of Hludovicus. 

From there, the fun part is how the modern French and German versions effectively divide up the Latin version.  Ironically or not, of the two, the German retains more of the Latin, instead of less.  I  have to be reminded of how the modern German 'kaiser' does that much violence to the spelling, but preserves the original pronunciation of 'caesar.' 

(...I've never learned a foreign lanuage, even as close to English as these are.  But I really need all I  can find out about the etymological relationships.)