a foray into the women of Rome

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

For the longest time I wouldn't collect the Caesars and the relatives of the emperors (unless they were rare, like Didia Clara). I've ceased the Caesar rule a few years back, but I don't think I've ever purposely bought one of the imperial ladies since the '90's (group lots or blind pick bins don't count).

I've sought to change this. I've been on an uncleaned kick lately and Zurqieh of all places let me satisfy both criteria at the same time. I've stated this before but I've been trying to find certain types in a 'before' state and leave them that way.

The package arrived today and I unpacked it.  He usually puts everything in envelopes but to my dismay, the Sestertius wasn't in anything.  That didn't hurt the coin but I touched it with my bare hand while fishing it out.  My hand wasn't wet but it wasn't bone dry, either.  I handled it barehanded about 5 seconds.  I wiped it off on my cotton sweatpants and then put the coin under a fan. I hope it doesn't get bronze disease.  I haven't opened any of the envelopes. 

Is this the faux Zurquieh desert patina that many tease him about?  The coin itself is actually kind of attractive in person - looks a lot better than the picture. The coin isn't uncleaned but it has dirt. Or, do you think it's bona fide dirt? To my inexpert eye it looks like the dirt has been scraped off rather than put on.

Zurquieh is great for fast service and some interesting Parthians/Sassanians. The downside is that I have to do my own attribution lookup,no matter what the price.

 

Many of the Judean and Seleucid bottle caps have a uniform looking dirt patina.  I think those might be the applied dirt ones?

Herennia Etruscilla.  Sestertius.  30mm., 16.94g RIC 135a, Sear 9504 (from Wildwinds)

a semi-uncleaned Domitian Denarius.  This is about as close as one gets to an uncleaned 1st century denarius so I hopped on it.

18mm, 2.34g.

 

I haven't yet opened my Sear to get an attribution.  I also have RIC I.

a semi-uncleaned Follis. Wait a sec, Zurqieh had it as Maximianus, but it has CAES on it, unless my one good eye is deceiving me.  Wouldn't that make it Galerius? 28mm., 9.88g. Would that make it a Galerius from Ticinum?  It also has one of my favorite reverses of large Folles.

And I went back to the Hexagram well.  I came into the year having always wanted a Hexagram. I now have 5. This particular hoard suffers from a not-so-great cleanign job but a number of the pieces had a lot more drapery/facial features than one usually sees.

 

26mm, 6.15g.  I chose this one because of the football-flan. Why's the software acting weird after I type in weights and size?  The Domitian pic would only show up as tiny and the margins are crazy now. Feel free to post any of the women of Rome.

[Roman Collector]

I like those squarish sestertii of the second and third centuries! Here's my example of your Herennia Etruscilla.

[John Conduitt]

18 minutes ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

Why's the software acting weird after I type in weights and size?

Did you copy/paste? To prevent problems with that, click the 'paste text only' flag that comes up at the bottom of the post when you paste. Sometimes the hidden structure from what you're copying can mess it up. The easiest way is to copy/paste the whole text in one go and add the photos later.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Yes, the initial weights were copied and pasted, but then I manually wrote the last weight. 

 

[John Conduitt]

The only two empresses I had on my wish list were Helena and Fausta, to complete my set of all the people featured at the London mint (as just posted in the Emperor portrait post along with Theodora). I don't otherwise explicitly collect empresses, although I've picked a fair few up. Having recently upgraded my Sabina, I think I'll improve some of the others, although I like to have a PAS reference or similar for the specific coin before I spend too much.

Sabina Denarius, 130-133

Rome. Silver, 17mm, 3.07g. Diademed and draped bust to right, wearing stephane; SABINA AVGVSTA HADRIANI AVG P P. Concordia seated to left, holding patera and sceptre; cornucopiae below throne; CONCORDIA AVG. From the Londonthorpe II (Lincolnshire) Hoard, also known as Ropsley, found in March 2018. Portable Antiquities Scheme: LANCUM-F93E5B (This coin is in Image 1, first in second row).

Faustina II Denarius, 145-161

Rome. Silver, 18mm, 2.68g. Bust of Faustina the Younger, band of pearls round head, hair waived and coiled on back of head, draped, right; FAVSTINAE AVG PII AVG FIL. Venus, draped, standing left, holding apple in right hand and rudder set on dove, in left; VENVS (RIC III, Antoninus Pius 515A (denarius)). Found Rossington, near Doncaster, South Yorkshire. Portable Antiquities Scheme: SWYOR-D8E6A8.

Julia Domna (under Septimius Severus) Denarius, 196-202

Laodicea ad Mare, Syria. Silver, 16mm, 2.15g. Bust of Julia Domna, hair waved and coiled at back, draped, right; IVLIA AVGVSTA. Juno, veiled, draped, standing left, holding patera in extended right hand and sceptre in left hand; at feet, left, peacock; IVNO REGINA (RIC IV, 640). Found Hertfordshire.

Plautilla Denarius, 202-205

Rome. Silver, 18mm, 3.39g. Bust of Plautilla, hair coiled in ridges, fastened in bun at back, draped, right; PLAVTILLAE AVGVSTAE. Caracalla, togate, standing left, clasping right hands with Plautilla, draped, standing right; CONCORDIAE AETERNAE (RIC IV, 361 (denarius)). Found in Hertfordshire.

Julia Maesa Denarius, 220-222

Rome. Silver, 17mm, 1.52g. Draped bust right; IVLIA MAESA AVG. Rev: Felicitas standing left holding staff and sacrificing over altar before; SAECVLI FELICITAS (RIC IV 2, 271). Found in Essex.

Otacilia Severa (6th emission of Philip I) Antoninianus, 247

Rome, 4th officina. Silver, 22mm, 3.55g. Draped bust right, wearing stephane and set on crescent. Concordia seated left, holding patera and double cornucopia (RIC IV, Philip I, 125c). Ex Ken Bressett. From the Dorchester (Dorset) Hoard 1936. Portable Antiquities Scheme: IARCH-5E5FEF.

Salonina Antoninianus, 260-268

Rome. Silver, 3.17g. Bust of Salonina, diademed, draped, right, on crescent; SALONINA AVG. Vesta, draped, seated left, holding patera in right hand and sceptre in left hand; VESTA; mintmark reverse Q (RIC V.1, 32). From the Chalgrove I (Oxfordshire) Hoard 1989, Portable Antiquities Scheme: IARCH-A700D2.

[kapphnwn]

Denarius of Orbania 225-227 AD Obv bust right draped and diademed Rv Concordia seated right holding patera in right hand and cradling 2 cornucopia in her left. RIC 319 2.57 grms 19 mm Photo by W. Hansen 

[Praefectus]

Cilicia. Aegeae. Cornelia Supera, Augusta, 253. Tetrassarion Ae 26 mm. 11.42 gm. CY 299 = 253. Obv: ΓΑΙ ΚΟΡΝΗ ϹΟΥΠЄΡΑ ϹЄΒ, Diademed and draped bust of Cornelia Supera set on crescent to right. Rev: ΑΙΓЄΑΙⲰΝ ΝЄⲰΚΟ ΝΑΥΑΡ / C – O / Ч Tyche standing front, head to left, holding rudder in her right hand and cornucopiae in her left; at her feet to right, goat reclining right, head left. Haymann 233 corr. (reverse legend). RPC IX 1466 corr. (reverse legend). SNG Levante 1790. Very rare.

[Severus Alexander]

2 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

Julia Domna (under Septimius Severus) Denarius, 196-202

Laodicea ad Mare, Syria. Silver, 16mm, 2.15g. Bust of Julia Domna, hair waved and coiled at back, draped, right; IVLIA AVGVSTA. Juno, veiled, draped, standing left, holding patera in extended right hand and sceptre in left hand; at feet, left, peacock; IVNO REGINA (RIC IV, 640). Found Hertfordshire.

This strikes me as a very strange coin, @John Conduitt! The portrait style doesn’t look much like Laodicea, but rather Alexandria… see Barry Murphy’s examples from 195 with this obverse legend. Both the protuberant-eye portrait and the drapery match Alexandria, and not Laodicea. I don’t know if this type is known for Alexandria, but it would be worth checking with our experts, @maridvnvm and @dougsmit about the coin. I could be totally out to lunch, but you may have a very rare and interesting item there!

[expat]

Lady of Rome, the only one I have, Annia Aurelia Galeria Lucilla or Lucilla was the second daughter of Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius and Roman Empress Faustina the Younger. She was the wife of her father's co-ruler and adoptive brother Lucius Verus and an elder sister to later Emperor Commodus.

 

 

[Marsyas Mike]

I like those "uncleaned" coins as well - you have some interesting ones there @Nerosmyfavorite68

A while back I bought a lot of 3rd century antoniniani that were far more toned than these usually are.  Not sure if this is natural "hoard patina" or if they just toned up more recently in a cabinet, but I do like how they look compared to the bright-white look.  The Philip lion has been hole and plugged - many of the coins in this lot were plugged this way:

[maridvnvm]

10 hours ago, Severus Alexander said:

This strikes me as a very strange coin, @John Conduitt! The portrait style doesn’t look much like Laodicea, but rather Alexandria… see Barry Murphy’s examples from 195 with this obverse legend. Both the protuberant-eye portrait and the drapery match Alexandria, and not Laodicea. 

I don't think the coin is Laodicea nor do I think it is Alexandrian. It is Rome mint in style.

Regards 

Martin 

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

The Domitian is a tough one to ID.  However, what Minerva is standing on seems to be a semi-crescent.  There's also a small animal at Minerva's feet.  Could it be this?

https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/domitian/RIC_0658.txt (picture of same below)

Domitian AR Denarius, AD 88-89. Rome. 19 mm. 3.39 g. IMP CAES DOMITIANVS AVG GERM P M TR P VIII, laureate head right. IMP XVII COS XIIII CENS PP P, Minerva standing right on rostral column, holding spear and shield, owl at foot right. RIC 658. Contributed by Andrew Short, April 2021 ex Artemide Aste E-Live Auction 17, March 27, 2021 Lot 380

The surfaces and low weight suggest that this coin is crystallized.

[dougsmit]

19 hours ago, maridvnvm said:

I don't think the coin is Laodicea nor do I think it is Alexandrian. It is Rome mint in style.

Regards 

Martin 

Agree --- or possibly unofficial???

[curtislclay]

I agree with Doug regarding the IVNO REGINA denarius: probably unofficial. On the other hand Rome did strike that type in 197.

Edited April 24, 2023 by curtislclay

[Severus Alexander]

On 4/23/2023 at 12:25 AM, maridvnvm said:

I don't think the coin is Laodicea nor do I think it is Alexandrian. It is Rome mint in style.

Regards 

Martin 

On 4/23/2023 at 8:07 PM, dougsmit said:

Agree --- or possibly unofficial???

On 4/24/2023 at 7:40 AM, curtislclay said:

I agree with Doug regarding the IVNO REGINA denarius: probably unofficial. On the other hand Rome did strike that type in 197.

Thanks to these three experts for weighing in, and sorry, @John Conduitt for getting your hopes up. 🥴 Still, an interesting coin. Looking at the larger heads for Rome for this type, they tend to look a lot more youthful than your portrait. Still, maybe the corrosion could explain this? (And Martin has looked at more of these than me!) However the overall leaning of the three seems to be towards unofficial. So: likely unofficial or possibly Rome?

Not Alexandria, though. 🙃

[dougsmit]

One thing I have learned over the years as a collector is that I know nothing about coins compared to what I do not know.  In the recent years, I have become more concerned about the line between official and unofficial issues and the certain ID of mints whether Rome or a branch.  How many mints were authorized, short term, or some other shade of genuine?  We recently have had proposals of a separate mint for Probus that resembles Antioch but was set up to strike money to fund the action against a usurper.  Are there others? 

I'll tack on what I have in the way of Juno Regina.  My feelings on the matter are more of a gut reaction than some scientific certainty.  In all honesty, I am increasingly certain that Socrates was correct when he said something to the effect that all he knew was that he knew nothing.  Do be careful quoting anyone.  As I understand the matter, the Greek texts we have on Socrates (and quite a few others) are reverse translations from later languages and we really have no proof what Socrates  said or, for that matter if he said anything that was later attributed to him.  I am not a famous philosopher but I am sufficiently confused to know I have no hope of knowing.   This is not just about coins.  I believe I got the idea from Mary Beard who I believe once said something to the effect that there is no historical truth but only a record of what people believed to be true.  Don't quote me on that.  Meanwhile, I am left to ponder questions like " Are male ants properly called 'Ncles? 😉

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

I don't want to jinx it by telling specifics, but I just ordered a fancy uncleaned.  The cheapie but decent throw-in was Constantius Gallus, as a placeholder (my first CG).

One of these days I'll pick up a nice Faustina Sestertius.

[Marsyas Mike]

I just got this Julia Domna denarius in the mail - it has an uncleaned look - CERERI FRVGI.  At 4 grams it is suspiciously heavy.  I also found four obverse die-matches right off the bat - which sometimes worries me more than it pleases me.  Feel free to weigh in if you feel suspicious about its authenticity - I can take the pain.  

It is RIC 636 I think (the loop is hard to see at her neck in my photo, but it is there - and as you can see from the die-matches below, it is a bit detached).  Attributed to Laodicea or some other Eastern mint, depending where you consult: 

Here are the four obverse die-matches (the first one below mine is an obverse/reverse match, I think).  These are all from acsearch auctions, Nomos, CNG, etc. Mine is far and away the dirtiest!:

The bottom one is from a CNG auction - ex Richard McAlee collection! - described thusly (not sure what "new style" Laodiciea ad Mare mint means - I crave enlightenment!):

160a Julia Domna. Augusta, AD 193-217. AR Denarius (20mm, 3.09 g, 1h). 'New style'. Laodicea ad Mare mint. Struck under Septimius Severus and Caracalla, circa AD 198-202. IVLIA AVGVSTA, draped bust right / CERERI FRVGIF, Ceres seated left, holding grain ears and long scepter. RIC IV 636 (Septimius Severus); BMCRE 592 (Septimius Severus); RSC 14. VF.
From the Richard McAlee Collection.

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7243522

 

[Valentinian]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:34 PM, Marsyas Mike said:

The Philip lion has been hole and plugged - many of the coins in this lot were plugged this way:

In antiquity counterfeit coins (fourrees) were often pierced (holed) to denote they were fake. I collected ancient imitations for many years and wrote a website on ancient imitations:  http://augustuscoins.com/ed/imit/ .  I probably should have kept some of the pierced coins to show you, but I didn't. 

They are genuinely ancient, but not full-silver official coins. So, if you find coins of, say, Gordian III that are pierced and look like ants but don't show much silver, it may be that they were condemned in antiquity. If they are then plugged, it may be someone was trying to make them look genuine. 

[Marsyas Mike]

10 hours ago, Valentinian said:

In antiquity counterfeit coins (fourrees) were often pierced (holed) to denote they were fake. I collected ancient imitations for many years and wrote a website on ancient imitations:  http://augustuscoins.com/ed/imit/ .  I probably should have kept some of the pierced coins to show you, but I didn't. 

They are genuinely ancient, but not full-silver official coins. So, if you find coins of, say, Gordian III that are pierced and look like ants but don't show much silver, it may be that they were condemned in antiquity. If they are then plugged, it may be someone was trying to make them look genuine. 

Thank you for those insights (and the link - I visit your site all the time) @Valentinian 

The lot these came in was kind of peculiar; most of the "silver coins" had been holed and plugged - not once, but four times each at roughly 2-4-7-11 o'clock, in a way that suggests a linked bracelet.  The toning over the years sort of covers up the plugs, but they are there.  Some of them look like total "limes" base-metal types, others could plausibly be official.  Here's a group shot:

Here is a close up of a Julia Domna denarius, which looks pretty good at first glance, but is holed and plugged four times.  It is washed-out in my poor photos below, but in hand it has a rich, greenish-silvery tone that I find quite attractive (it looks better in the group shot above, bottom row, second from the right): 

[Severus Alexander]

14 hours ago, Marsyas Mike said:

Thank you for those insights (and the link - I visit your site all the time) @Valentinian 

The lot these came in was kind of peculiar; most of the "silver coins" had been holed and plugged - not once, but four times each at roughly 2-4-7-11 o'clock, in a way that suggests a linked bracelet.  The toning over the years sort of covers up the plugs, but they are there.  Some of them look like total "limes" base-metal types, others could plausibly be official.  Here's a group shot:

Here is a close up of a Julia Domna denarius, which looks pretty good at first glance, but is holed and plugged four times.  It is washed-out in my poor photos below, but in hand it has a rich, greenish-silvery tone that I find quite attractive (it looks better in the group shot above, bottom row, second from the right): 

Being holed for wear is quite plausible, especially if these came from eastern Europe… in the Chernyakov culture, both official Roman coins and imitations were often worn, perhaps as a sort of status symbol, or along the lines of wearing one’s wealth.