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Louis Louie Luis LOO EYE....For the Dauphin Louis XVII


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As most of you know, i collect on several fronts...and one being to collect all the French Kings named Louis ...i just bought this lil beauty today and i think it will fit nicely in the group, since there were no coins minted for him, these types like this one and those beautiful medals by such artist as Cache, Depaulis and some others...but this one will do just fine for now...of course, i don't have it in hand yet, but yeah, i paid for it so its mine  ^^




Type: For the Dauphin Louis XVII
Date: n.d.
Mint name / Town : Nuremberg
Metal : brass
Diameter : 24 mm
Orientation dies : 12 h.
Weight : 3,43 g.
Edge : lisse
Rarity : R1

louis xvii.jpg

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@ominus1, you're owed an apology for my having taken this long to get to this.  Sorry --and here's another Louis.  Most or all of this will be redundant, relative to the other forum, but, well, why not. 

First, though, it's worth noting that for years on end, "Louie Louie" has been considered the unofficial civic anthem of Seattle.  The better candidate might be from another homie.  ...Thank you, the weather.  In this broad part of the world, the stereotype is still true as often as it's not.

And, just to be even more contrary, here's one from the first post-Carolingian (thank you, Capetian) Louis ever.



Louis VI (1108-1137).  Denier of Etampes, third issue (first of this general type), riffing on immobilized issues of the county of Maine /Le Mans, by now under the suzerainty (ultimately by marriage) of the counts of Anjou /Angevins.  ...Who are already on their way to absorbing all of greater Normandy, and succeeding the Normans as kings of England, by military as well as dynastic means. 

Obv.  Variant of the 'ERBERTVS' monogram of Maine.  (From 9 o'clock:) +LODOVICVS REX.

Rev.  Cross, /\ in two angles.  STAMPIS CASTELLVIxI[/'M'].  Duplessy, Royales 102, noting minor variants in the legends.

Here's an early, vaguely contemporaneous immobilization of the partial prototype of Maine.  Here, the 'ERBERTVS' monogram seems to include an initial, ligated 'H;' thank you, as in, 'Herbertus.'  I've never seen this variant anywhere else, but otherwise, it corresponds to the type dated by Duplessy to the late 11th and early 12th centuries (Feodales 400).



The Louis VI is one of several early Capetian issues that imitate motifs on feudal ones, maybe most prominently the ones of Maine.  This is likely to have been motivated by pragmatic considerations of the mercantile dynamics, in terms of the coinage which was already circulating on the ground.  But I have to think that, in the process, it symptomizes the Capetians' still compromised political and territorial status, even regionally.  Here's a map of what the Capetian demesne looked like as of c. 1180, at the height of the 'Angevin Empire.'  The Angevin progress in Maine and Normandy (darker red) had been fully realized.  Meanwhile, the royal demesne (light blue) was also hemmed in by the counties of Blois and Champagne (yellow), which were ruled by the same comital dynasty.  (/'Held'? go to Angevin England for that; in France, the level of feudal autonomy was still that pronounced.)  


It's not until the reigns of Louis VII and Philippe II, c. mid-12th to earlier 13th centuries, that royal French issues begin to take on their own, relatively universal character, especially with the deniers parisis, beginning with Louis VII, and Philippe's eventual appropriation of the denier tournois of Touraine.  (@seth77 has gone into more detail about the deniers parisis than I'm likely to.)  Reflecting the assertion of Capetian power; gradual at first, but increasingly dramatic under Philippe, who conquered all but a husk of the 'Angevin Empire.'

Back to Etampes, the castle has a funly 'transitional' donjon, dated to early in the reign of Louis VII, c. 1150.  In the design of keeps /donjons, all of the main innovations came from France.  The best known examples in England were built by Henry II, who, thank you, was a first-generation Frenchman --only more emphatically so than William the Conqueror.  (All the below are from Wikimedia Commons.)




Edited by JeandAcre
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