Second RR that arrived today

[ambr0zie]

I think this deserves a separate topic. It was the second RR denarius I won in the last auction, the price was also  slightly more than I was hoping (but I am an optimistic person). First can be seen here .

The same like the other - a type that was on my radar for a long time. And even if I am slowly building a RR collection, this is my first coin with a quadriga or even a biga, very recurrent motifs on RR denarii  (I have a Juno Sospita RR denarius with a biga from a group lot, but the condition is horrible).

C. Annius T. f. T. n. and L. Fabius L. f. Hispaniensis AR Denarius. 19,3 mm 3,77 g. Mint in North Italy or Spain, 82-81 BC. Diademed and draped bust of Anna Perenna to right; C•ANNI•T•F•T•N•PRO•COS•EX•S•C• around, scales before, winged caduceus behind / Victory driving quadriga to right, holding reins and palm-branch; Q above, B• below, L•FABI•L•F•HISP in exergue. Crawford 366/1c; BMCRR Spain 29; RSC Annia 2; Syd. 748b

Not sure if the obverse character is indeed Anna Perenna but here is an exceptional writeup
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/anna-perenna.346731/

This ticked a lot of boxed for me - finally a quadriga; very appealing design and with very pleasant toning (for my tastes); a deity that is rarely shown on coins.

Let's see bigas, trigas, quadrigas, zilliondrigas, rare deities, toned RR denarii or whatever you feel is worth showing.

 

 

[Constantivs]

Very nice example!

Here is mine .. with a couple of bankers marks..

 

[ambr0zie]

Mine also has a banker's mark on the neck - but this does not obstruct the design too badly.

[Constantivs]

On 9/29/2022 at 12:17 PM, ambr0zie said:

Mine also has a banker's mark on the neck - but this does not obstruct the design too badly.

Yes I see that - its a wonderful coin. 

The "x" on the cheek of mine may not appeal to many but I love the placement.

Examples that maintain their style while showing signs of ancient use are extra special in my book.

There are style differences (as well as control marks) that differentiate our two excellent coins.

I am glad to see yours. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Constantivs

[ambr0zie]

3 hours ago, Constantivs said:

There are style differences (as well as control marks) that differentiate our two excellent coins.

Correct - I think yours is Crawford 366/1a (control symbol below bust - sword? https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=75937 ). And yes, your coin is very attractive, I would have bought it without hesitation. Interesting banker mark on the cheek - perhaps suggesting value?

[DonnaML]

Beautiful coins, @ambr0zie and @Constantivs. Here's my example:

 

Roman Republic, C. Annius T.f. T.n Luscus and L. Fabius L.f. Hispaniensis, AR Denarius, 82-81 BCE, minted in N. Italy (or Spain). Obv. Female bust right, unidentified [according to Crawford & Sear RCV] but possibly Anna Perenna [see BMCRR & RSC],* draped, wearing diadem, earring of three drops and necklace; hair rolled back and collected into a knot behind, and falling in one lock down the neck; before, scales; behind, winged caduceus; C•ANNI•T•F•T•N• - PRO•COS•EX•S•C around counter-clockwise from 4:00; below bust, control-letter R between two dots / Rev. Victory leaning forward in quadriga of galloping horses right, holding reins in left hand and palm-branch in extended right hand; horse on far right turns head back towards the other three horses; Q above horses; in exergue, [L]•FABI•L•F•HISP. 21 mm., 3.78 g., 4 h. Crawford 366/1b; BMCRR II Spain 13-18 var. [different control-letters]; RSC I Annia 2b & Fabia 17; Sear RCV I 289 (ill. p. 126), RBW Collection 1376 (ill. p. 283). Purchased from Roma Numismatics Ltd. E-Sale 98, 16 Jun 2022, Lot 1071; “from the collection of Z.P., Austria” (with old coin ticket in English on one side and in Italian on other side).**

 

*BMCRR II, at p. 353 n. 2 (continuation), identifies the obverse bust as “Anna Perenna, who according to Ovid [citations omitted] was the sister of Dido, and was worshipped in Italy in the character of a rustic deity. It may have been from her that the Annia gens claimed descent. The caduceus, the symbol of commerce, may refer to the corn-producing wealth of Spain, or even to Anna Perenna herself, of whom Ovid relates that when the people of Rome were in want of food she distributed cakes amongst the hungry multitude, who in gratitude erected a temple to her. The scales may have a monetary significance.” RSC I adopts the same identification. Crawford, however, states that “the identity of the deity who forms the obverse type is entirely uncertain.” Crawford I p. 386. Sear RCV I, at p. 126, also declines to identify the obverse figure.  [Second footnote omitted.]

**

I find it interesting that neither Crawford nor anyone else rejecting the Anna Perenna identification is willing to speculate about who else it might possibly be. Given that she wears a diadem, it must be some royal personage.

Separately, is anyone else aware of any other Roman Republican coins depicting quadrigas in which the fourth horse is shown turning its head back towards the other three? I don't know of any. Although I am reminded of the two triga coins, on both of which the third horse turns its head back towards the other two.

 

[ambr0zie]

5 hours ago, DonnaML said:

is anyone else aware of any other Roman Republican coins depicting quadrigas in which the fourth horse is shown turning its head back towards the other three

I am not - this was another aspect I found interesting.
I tend to overlook RR denarii with Roma on obverse / biga/triga/quadriga on reverse but the design on this one, with the fourth horse turning its head back (and the second looking upwards, I think) seemed intriguing.

[antwerpen2306]

@ambr0zie a very, very beautiful coin, you said :the price was also  slightly more than I was hoping (but I am an optimistic person), I think without knowing the price you paid, you made a very good deal, difficult to remake. Crawford has for this coin two groups, yours is the first group 1c. In the first group, there is a number 1 with a,b,c and a number 2 with a and b. The number of dies is : 1a : 27/30, ab : 18/20, 1a : 18/20, 2b : 5/5 and 1c : 2/2 . So your coin is very rare, Crawford estimates about 30.000 coins for one die. I can only say : congrats.

ps: years ago, I've found 'The Roman Republican coinage ' of Crawford in google, I had the book but of course, I downloaded it. Since then, it is no more on google, I think. If anyone is interested, I can mail a copy with we transfer, if it is allowed by numisforms

[ambr0zie]

Thanks @antwerpen2306. I also studied Crawford's book and noticed the groups and varieties mentioned there - the attribution 366/1c was mine (I am glad it is correct) because the auction house listed it as 366/1 but I performed a little research (like I always prefer). The rarity is, of course, a good sign.

I paid, including fees, 114 euros and I was hoping for a little smalller price. But again, I am an optimistic person (and this is bad when estimating prices before auctions); also, even ignoring the rarity, for a RR denarius in this condition, this is not a horrible price to pay.

[DonnaML]

1 hour ago, antwerpen2306 said:

ps: years ago, I've found 'The Roman Republican coinage ' of Crawford in google, I had the book but of course, I downloaded it. Since then, it is no more on google, I think. If anyone is interested, I can mail a copy with we transfer, if it is allowed by numisforms

I remember seeing that, but you should know that Crawford is still under copyright and that was an unauthorized copy, technically illegal to download. So I wouldn't encourage sharing it, especially because the paperback reprint of Crawford is still easily available to buy online, and costs less than the average ancient coin many of us buy.

[antwerpen2306]

@ambr0ziewhat was your smaller price : 1,14 euros.? You are a lucky man and I think, it will take a lot of time to remake such a deal. I am really happy for you, it is unbelievable for such a coin about XF

@DonnaMLI know, I paid my paperback copy a little more than the half of the denarius of @ambr0zie  but it was a new XF copy 😄

[ambr0zie]

My collecting strategies are to buy coins in the 30-100 EUR range. I know this will not grant me spectacular coins but this is my budget and I am around for a while - I don't buy slugs or extremely worn coins. 

I am not a fan of coins in exceptional conditions. I consider this coin a VF. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by ambr0zie

[Constantivs]

On 10/1/2022 at 10:54 PM, DonnaML said:

Beautiful coins, @ambr0zie and @Constantivs. Here's my example:

 

Roman Republic, C. Annius T.f. T.n Luscus and L. Fabius L.f. Hispaniensis, AR Denarius, 82-81 BCE, minted in N. Italy (or Spain). Obv. Female bust right, unidentified [according to Crawford & Sear RCV] but possibly Anna Perenna [see BMCRR & RSC],* draped, wearing diadem, earring of three drops and necklace; hair rolled back and collected into a knot behind, and falling in one lock down the neck; before, scales; behind, winged caduceus; C•ANNI•T•F•T•N• - PRO•COS•EX•S•C around counter-clockwise from 4:00; below bust, control-letter R between two dots / Rev. Victory leaning forward in quadriga of galloping horses right, holding reins in left hand and palm-branch in extended right hand; horse on far right turns head back towards the other three horses; Q above horses; in exergue, [L]•FABI•L•F•HISP. 21 mm., 3.78 g., 4 h. Crawford 366/1b; BMCRR II Spain 13-18 var. [different control-letters]; RSC I Annia 2b & Fabia 17; Sear RCV I 289 (ill. p. 126), RBW Collection 1376 (ill. p. 283). Purchased from Roma Numismatics Ltd. E-Sale 98, 16 Jun 2022, Lot 1071; “from the collection of Z.P., Austria” (with old coin ticket in English on one side and in Italian on other side).**

 

*BMCRR II, at p. 353 n. 2 (continuation), identifies the obverse bust as “Anna Perenna, who according to Ovid [citations omitted] was the sister of Dido, and was worshipped in Italy in the character of a rustic deity. It may have been from her that the Annia gens claimed descent. The caduceus, the symbol of commerce, may refer to the corn-producing wealth of Spain, or even to Anna Perenna herself, of whom Ovid relates that when the people of Rome were in want of food she distributed cakes amongst the hungry multitude, who in gratitude erected a temple to her. The scales may have a monetary significance.” RSC I adopts the same identification. Crawford, however, states that “the identity of the deity who forms the obverse type is entirely uncertain.” Crawford I p. 386. Sear RCV I, at p. 126, also declines to identify the obverse figure.  [Second footnote omitted.]

**

I find it interesting that neither Crawford nor anyone else rejecting the Anna Perenna identification is willing to speculate about who else it might possibly be. Given that she wears a diadem, it must be some royal personage.

Separately, is anyone else aware of any other Roman Republican coins depicting quadrigas in which the fourth horse is shown turning its head back towards the other three? I don't know of any. Although I am reminded of the two triga coins, on both of which the third horse turns its head back towards the other two.

 

What about the "dot" above horse #2?   visible on all three examples shown on this thread..?

[DonnaML]

1 hour ago, Constantivs said:

What about the "dot" above horse #2?   visible on all three examples shown on this thread..?

A mystery to me.

[ambr0zie]

I am not totally convinced the symbol above the first horse is a Q.

[DonnaML]

11 hours ago, ambr0zie said:

I am not totally convinced the symbol above the first horse is a Q.

I believe the theory is that it stands for Quaestor, meaning that the coin was issued by the named individuals in their capacities as quaestors of whatever location minted the coins, rather than as moneyers in Rome, since it seems to be accepted that the coins were minted outside Rome.

[ambr0zie]

The theory is indeed logical, but I am wondering why was it written horizontally. Quite an intriguing coin and I am glad I got it. 

[Constantivs]

22 hours ago, ambr0zie said:

I am not totally convinced the symbol above the first horse is a Q.

I am not referencing the “Q”.. just the dot above horse  #2. Seems to be on all examples no matter the die. Or Quaester..
 

[ambr0zie]

Yes, I was referring to the Q also, not just the dot.

1 hour ago, Constantivs said:

I am not referencing the “Q”..