lrbguy

I hope you will forgive a trip in a kind of way-back machine, but a few weeks ago in this thread you showed us your anepigraphic "eyes to heaven Dafne piece, which was impressive at first blush. The type is discussed by Speck and Huston in their study from 1992, without illustration, but in their table 3, second issue, they note that of the few examples known at that time all but one example are from officina A. The one that got away is an R5 from officina S. Is that your coin, or have more of these come to the surfance since 1992? How much has changed since 1992?

Some of you have some really excellent coins of Leo, at least by my standards. MC9: That lion reverse is tops in my book (probably since I don't have one). And Qcumbor surprised me with an AE2 - didn't expect to see one. My examples are more modest, but such as they are, here they are: LEO Leo I AE4 11mm Constantinople RIC X 714 DN L - E O diademed and draped bust r. No Legend Verina stg facing, holds globus cruciger (in r), and (crosswise) scepter left field: b right field: E Leo I AE4 9x12mm RIC X 694 [???] diademed and draped bust r. Latin monogram w/ (S) above Leo I AE4 10x11mm Constantinople? RIC X 702 DN L - E O diademed draped and cuirassed bust r. No legend. Emperor stg facing, head to L; holds long cross and places hand on kneeling captive. Left field: type A (clear) In exergue: CO This next has the same reverse motif but it has a different texture Leo I AE4 10mm Constantinople? RIC X 703 DN L - _E O_ diademed, draped (and cuirassed?) bust r. No legend. Emperor stg facing, head to L; holds long cross and places hand on kneeling captive. Left field: Cross? VERINA Coins were issued in the name of Verina that bear her legend. In lieu of one of those I will show another example of her reverse on a coin of Leo with clear details: Leo I AE4 11mm Constantinople RIC X 714 DN L - ___ ; diademed and draped bust r. No Legend. Verina stg facing, holds globus cruciger (in r), and scepter (crosswise) left field: b right field: (E)

I have been reluctant to show my latest since they are so poor I have not been able to attribute them to city. But then again, they do have some form, so here goes. For Theodosius II DN THEODOSIVS PF AVG AE4 12mm (Thessalonika) or (Heraclea?) NO LEGEND Cross within wreath MARCIAN Marcian AE4 13mm Cyzicus? (Heraclea?) DN MARC IANVS PF AVG pearl diademed, draped and cuirassed bust, right Monogram type 3, within wreath, crux quadrata above, In exergue: C?,S_ ?

Thank you for the reply. I am beginning to get the picture, I think. The crux of the whole matter is your earlier experience with the Valentinian piece, which you have carefully examined, and discussed with collectors, but apparently have not formally "presented to the world" as a new discovery. May I encourage you to do that, since the verifiable discovery of an unknown denomination is no small thing. That having been said, it is also a fact that our standard reference for this material is hopelessly out of date and can be expected to have many gaps. Might I suggest a report to the ANS (if in the US), or whatever numismatic agency operates in your part of the world, might be in order so your piece may have referential value for other students of this material? If it is to be authoritative, it needs to be properly vetted and published. From what you have said here it sounds as if you have seen something worthy of a closer look. I would look forward to hearing more about that coin. Thanks for sharing it. All the best.

I gut tells me this should be examined privately, but the errors have not been corrected. So, new to the list as I am, I will raise the question. Our interest is only to set the record straight, and maybe to help a fellow collector who is trying to make sense out of a confusing phenomenon. With all due respect, MC9, you have identified the coin as a half siliqua, claiming it to be silver. Citing Pearce on the question of silver as an adulterant in a bronze matrix misses the point. The coin which corresponds to RIC IX 26c is listed by Pearce as an "Aes IV" directly under the word "BRONZE." Pierce's comment on page XXIX applies to all bronze coins of this period. But you have singled out a few that you call "silver" (cf. also your first entry of May 10 for Valentinian, which you also identify as a half-siliqua, unlisted). You do not make this distinction for all late bronze coins, but you did for these two, originally noting in both cases that RIC missed it. What tells you these are silver coins when the others like them are not?

Let me guess: Charles Emerson Winchester III

I hope I'm not too late to the party. Hunted for a missing coin and finally had to give up. So I can only show two of the coins for May 20. One request: In comparing this material with the descriptions and illustrations in RIC X various points of difference were noted such that the catalog description and photos do not always agree or line up. Please check my attributions against your own interpretation of the listings in RIC X and as needed comment on what listing might be a better fit for each coin in question. JOHANNES Johannes AE4 - 11mm* Rome mint; 423-425 RIC X 1910* DN IOHAN - [NES PF AVG] diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right [SALVS] REI - PVBLICAE**; Victory bearing trophy in r hand/shoulder leads captive to L Left field: staurogram*** In exergue: Q [?] *This module was too small for the full scale of the designs on both sides of the coin, but this specimen weighs 1.24g against an average of 1.25g. It fits the scale of the illustrated full version of RIC X 1909 for Theodosivs II with this reverse. Johannes AE4 - 12mm Rome mint; 423-425 RIC X 1920* DN IOHANNES PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right [SALVS] REI - PVBLICAE**; Victory bearing trophy in r hand/shoulder leads captive to L Left field: staurogram*** In exergue: RMP *The two options for obverse legend call for a division N-N or NN-A. There is no division for this coin. **contra RIC X which gives REI-PUBLICE. ***in this case the bottom arc of the rho impinges on the horizontal crossbar. VALENTINIAN III Valentinian III AE4 - 11X13mm Rome mint; 423-425 RIC X 2123 DN VALENTINIANVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right V O T - P V B ; 4 layer gate w/2 pointed turrets (type A) Between turrets: e<epsilon> (officina) In exergue: []* After literally dozens of attempts I am going to submit these photos for this coin, but am aware that I can get a clear view of the design when holding the coin at less than a 90 degree angle with further angled incident light. *There does not appear to be any residual lettering in the exergue, which corresponds to the only type listed but not illustrated. Valentinian III AE4 - 12mm Rome mint; 423-425 RIC X 2126* DN VALENTINIANVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right V O T - P V B ; 4 layer gate w/2 pointed turrets (type B var) Between turrets: 2 dots In exergue: RM Galla Placidia I had no luck in finding the Galla Placidia I had acquired a few years ago. By way of recompense let me show a couple of better examples of Edoxia AE3s I came across and would have used earlier. Aelia Eudoxia redux Aelia Eudoxia AE3 - 15mm Constantinople mint; 400-404 AEL EVDO - XIA AVG Nimbate (halo of dots), wearing 2 strand pearl diadem & necklace (?) r. SALVS REI - PVBLICAE Victory seated on cuirass r*, writing on chi-bar shield of dots set atop cippus In exergue: CONSA *Note the closely cropped hair, masculine features of the detailed face of victory, and the use of a cuirass for seating. Aelia Eudoxia AE3 - 16mm Constantinople mint; 400-404 AEL EVDO - XIA AVG Nimbate (ring halo w/ dots), wearing diadem & pearl necklace r. GLORIA ROMANORVM Figure enthroned, crossed arms, facing In upper right field: crux quadrata (Greek cross) In exergue: ANTG

Since bronze is (and long has been) an alloy of copper and tin, sometimes with a bit of zinc thrown in, it is not hard to queer the mix and get a slightly silvery look to it.

After seeing the "three emperors" GLORIA ROMANORVM type for Honorius shown by mc9 above, I decided to go ahead and show a wrecked up example of the same type for Arcadius, which I had not realized existed for him. It too shows the star on obverse to the left of the head. Arcadius AE4 - 13x14mm Alexandria mint; 383-408 DN ARCADI - VS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right; star behind head GLORI - A ROMANANORVM Three emperors standing, two face front, middle facing r. In exergue: ALEA Now on to the emperors of the day, of which I am only able to show one: HONORIUS I will show one example in the AE2 module, two in the AE3 module, and two in the AE4 module: Honorius AE2 - 21x23mm Antioch mint; 383-408 DN HONORIVS PF AVG rosette diademed, draped and cuirassed facing r. GLORIA RO - MANORVM ; emperor standing with labarum (L) and orb (R) In exergue: ANT<gamma> Honorius AE3 - 18x19mm Cyzicus mint; 383-408 DN HONORI - VS PF AVG pearl diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right VIRTVS - EXERCITI emperor standing (left) w/ labarum (L) and shield (R); Victory placing wreath In exergue: SMKB Honorius AE3 - 17x18mm Cyzicus mint; 383-408 DN HONORI - VS PF AVG pearl diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right CONCORDI - A AVG Concord enthroned holds staff in R hand and Victory on orb in L In exergue: SMKA Honorius AE4 - 13mm Antioch mint; 383-408 DN HONORIVS PF AVG pearl diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right SALVS REI - PVBLICAE; Victory bearing trophy in r hand/shoulder leads captive to L Left field: dot In exergue: SMN[] (A or delta) The large ball at top right, just before the "P" of PVBLICAE, appears to be the top of the trophy. The function of the dot in left field is uncertain. Honorius AE4 - 13mm Antioch mint; 393-395 DN HO[NORIVS PF AV]G pearl diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right GLORIA - ROMANORVM Emperor on steed prancing r. raising R. hand In exergue: ANT<gamma>

The attribution is actually RIC IX 26c for Cyzicus.

Thanks for the reply, and sorry for the ambiguity. The question mark was for the officina, not for the mint. My notation must have been a bit too cryptic. I'll have to figure out another way to signal when I can't find/read an officina mark. RIC does not list this type for an AE3, but does for an AE2 and for a small module AE4. It does note a larger module AE4 at 14-16mm, but not for this reverse type for Eudoxia. Since I did not give the measurement (15.48mm), the whole thing was out to sea. If I were to call it a small AE2, then the officina would be "Beta" but if it were the small mod AE4 the officina would be "Epsilon." This one falls through the cracks, but then again, RIC IX came out in 1933, and I don't know the latest wisdom on this one. Does anybody know?

And here are a few varieties for Arcadius (and one more for his wife). Arcadius AE2 - Antioch mint; 383-408 DN ARCAD - IVS PF AVG hand above bestows nimbus, draped and cuirassed holding spear r. GLORIA RO - MANORVM ; emperor with labarum (L) and shield (R), to left bound kneeling figure In exergue: *ANTS Arcadius AE3 - Cyzicus mint; 383-408 DN ARCADI - VS PF AVG helmeted and cuirassed, holding shield with cross to r. CONCORDI - A AVGG CO Concord enthroned holds staff in R hand and Victoria on orb in L In exergue: SMKA Arcadius AE4 - Cyzicus mint; 383-408 DN ARCADIVS PF AVG draped and cuirassed bust right SALVS REI - PVBLICAE Victory adv. L carrying carrying trophy and dragging captive In left field: staurogram ** In exergue: SMK<gamma> (**The staurogram blends the letters tau & rho from the Greek word σταυρός (stauros), which in the New Testament refers to the structure on which Jesus died. It first appears in early New Testament papyri.) [Sorry for the wrong description earlier; wrong batch] Arcadius AE4 - Thessalonika mint; 383-388 DN ARCADIVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right GLORIA REI - PVBLICE 7-layer campgate with 2-layer towers, entrance 5-layers tall Left field: <gamma> [officina] In exergue: TES Arcadius AE4 - 10mm Nicomedia mint; 404-406 (RIC 10) DN ARCADI - VS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right CONCOR - DIAE AVGGG empty Latin cross on plane In exergue: SMNA AELIA EUDOXIA Aelia Eudoxia AE3 - Antioch mint; 383-408 AEL EVDO - XIA AVG Nimbate, wearing 2 strand pearl diadem & necklace r. SALVS REI - PVBLICAE Victory seated on cuirass r, writing chi-rho on shield set atop cippus In exergue: ANT ?

These boys are coming up late, but here they come (such as they are). Magnus Maximus Magnus Maximus, AE2 - 21x22mm Constantinople mint, 383-388 DN MAG MAXI - MVS PF AVG pearl diadem, draped and cuirassed bust right REPARATI - O - REIPVB Emperor (stg) extends right hand to crowned kneeling figure, holds Victoriola in left In exergue: <delta>CON Magnus Maximus, AE4 - 13mm Aquilea mint, 387-388 DN MAG MA - XIMVS PF AVG pearl diadem, draped and cuirassed bust right SPES RO - MA - NORVM 5-layer campgate; 2 turrets, star between In exergue: SMAQP FLAVIUS VICTOR Flavius Victor, AE4 - 13mm Aquilea mint, 387-388 DN FL VIC - TOR PF AVG pearl diadem, draped and cuirassed bust right SPES RO - MA - NORVM 6-layer campgate; 2 turrets, star between In exergue: SMAQP Flavius Victor, AE4 - 13mm Aquilea mint, 387-388 DN FL VIC - TOR PF AVG pearl diadem, draped and cuirassed bust right SPES RO - MA - NORVM 6-layer campgate; 2 turrets, star between In exergue: SMAQ?

Ah! Actually, that's good. I hate it when a trend is too localized. I'm glad to be wrong about Alexandria in this case. I also noticed that Antioch also used the Latin cross on their mint product, apparently more often than not. So it swings both ways. Be all that as it may, I think we are safe in attributing the use of such a symbol to a Greek influence. Whether we find that in the preferences and policies of the mints or those above them or some other source remains to be sorted out.

While there is no direct familial lineage from Arcadius to Valentinian (since Theodosius was a General and the son of a General who had served under Valentinian) from the standpoint of this distinctive style of cross there is a strong point of connection via the mint at Antioch. All of the coins we have been looking at so far which bear the Tau cross came from that mint, whilst the neighboring mints, such as Alexandria, tended to use the Latin cross. I find that a bit odd, since it is throughout the west that we find the highest concentration of Greek speakers in the late empire, and that is the heritage which continues beyond the end of empire into the so-called Byzantine period.

Not sure why you say it "can't be a form of cross." The Tau cross was an ancient form that was used for the crucifixion of St. Antony. Since T was the symbol for numeral 300 some of the Ante-Nicene church fathers associate the figure with the cross of Christ (as alternative to Latin cross. When I get to it I will be showing a coin with both the Latin cross and Greek "tau" cross, which I suspect was intended to show respect to both of the main Christian faith traditions of a divided empire. Edit: Come to think of it I showed one of each in my selections for Ael. Flacilla. A Latin cross from Constantinople, and a Tau cross from Antioch.

A couple of pics for Theodosius and a few more for his wife. Theodosius I, AE2 - 22x24mm Constantinople mint, 378-383 DN THEODO - SIVS PF AVG Helmeted with pearl diadem, draped and cuirassed bust right GLORIA RO - MANORVM, Emperor stg on ship facing r, raising r. hand; Victory at helm In L field: wreath In exergue: CONA Theodosius I, Siliqua - 18mm Constantinople mint, 392-395 CE DN THEODO - SIVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right VOT X MVLT XX in wreath In exergue: CONS Aelia Flacilla AE2 21mm Constantinople mint 378-383 AEL FLAC - CILLA AVG Draped w/ elaborate head-dress, necklace, and mantle SALVS REI - PVBLICAE In right field: Latin cross In exergue: CON<epsilon> Aelia Flacilla AE2 21mm Constantinople mint 383-388 AEL FLAC - CILLA AVG Draped w/ elaborate head-dress, necklace, and mantle SALVS REI - PVBLICAE Emperor stg facing, head r, arms folded. In right field: Latin cross In exergue: CONS<epsilon> Aelia Flacilla AE2 22mm Antioch mint 383-388 AEL FLAC - CILLA AVG Draped w/ elaborate head-dress, necklace, and mantle SALVS REI - PVBLICAE Victory seated on cuirass r, writing chi-rho on shield atop small column In right field: tau cross (T) In exergue: ANTS

There are some very nice coins of Valentinian II being shown here. Most impressive. Before presenting my coins let me correct an error in my last post: I should have said that res is a fifth declension noun, not 3rd. FWIW. I have selected four coins for Valentinian II; 3 Ae3, and an AE4, which I think do not duplicate what others have posted so far. Valentinian II, AE3 - 18mm Antioch mint, 378-83 CE DN VALENTINIA - NVS IVN FL AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right .VRBS. - ROMA , Roma std to L, holds Victoriola to L; staff/spear to r In left field: <theta>; in R field: star over <psi> In exergue: ANT<delta> Valentinian II, AE3 - 18mm Aquilea mint, 378-83 CE DN VALENTINIA - NVS IVN FL AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right CONCOR - DIA AVGGG, Concordia enthroned facing to left, holds orb in r, staff in L In exergue: SMAQS compare the style of that reverse with this next: Valentinian II, AE3 - 18mm Siscia mint, 378-83 CE DN VALENTINIA - NVS IVN FL AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right CONCOR - DIA AVGGG, Concordia enthroned facing to left, holds orb in r, staff in L In exergue: ASISC Valentinian II, AE4 - 15mm Antioch mint, 378-83 CE DN VALENTINIANVS PF AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right SALVS REI - PVBLICAE; Victory leads captive to L Left field: Latin cross; In exergue: ANTA

Nice bronze Sev Alex, something not in RIC VII. I have always like the Dafne reverse, and the fact that it gets tangled up with the campgate reverses. Actually, parsing REIPVB (or reipublicae) as rei + publicae cannot yield "public things" inasmuch as rei is a feminine singular form from the third declension noun "res." It is either genitive or dative singular. Publicae is the associated adjective parsed as a first declension singular to match, which in its unabbreviated form "reipublicae" appears on a solidus of Valens. The word which disambiguates the grammatical case of reipublicae, is the noun "reparatio" a third declension singular which by virtue of prior position forces reipublicae to take the genitive: the restoration of (the) public order/affair/matter. Contrary to my earlier comment, this is not a throwback reference to the Roman republic, but rather, I think, speaks of civil order despite the growing separation of east and west. In this rendering, the figure being elevated by the imperial recognition is the public order, and is feminine by virtue of the grammar of the expression.

Well, think about it. While both Roma and Republica are feminine nouns, If the kneeling figure which is being elevated by the attention of the emperor (large central figure) were Roma, wouldn't the coin inscription have mentioned that? (reparatio romae?) Why does it hearken back to Republica? For many in the east "Roma" was tied to a city; a city they sought to keep at a distance since the time of Diocletian.

A bit above Donna asked: "So: Who is that woman?" after noting, " Could she have been intended as a personification of “the Republic” itself? " Based on the associated text I think you have put your finger on it with that query. The figure in question is to be associated with the "REPARATIO REIBVB(LICAE)," i.e. "Restoration of the Republic." Note that the abbreviated word "REIPVB" is a first declension genitive in Latin (republicae). If we understand the large central figure to be the Imperial personage dujour (Valens or Gratian or whoever), then his gesture is one of elevating the status of the kneeling figure. The inscription is being given a hyper-literal rendering based upon the grammatical gender of Latin first declension nouns. The principal claimant to this treatment of this epithet on coinage (per Stevenson "Dictionary") was Valens, but insofar as his coinage coincided, Gratian must have been a co-claimant to the distinction de jure as part of the Imperial majesty. It was all in a spirit of lighthearted Latin fun.

Six items in sets of two of decreasing size from AE2 to AE4. These range over the whole length of his reign. Gratian AE2 - Rome (or Cyzicus or Heraclea) mint; 378-383 DN GRATIA - NVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right REPARATIO - REIPUB Republica (stg) extends right hand to kneeling figure, holds Victoriola in left In exergue: SMRP (Here the kneeling figure is distinctively male) Gratian AE2 - Siscia mint; 378-383 DN GRATIA (*) - NVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right REPARATIO - REIPUB Republica (stg) extends right hand to crowned kneeling figure, holds Victoriola in left In exergue: BSISC (Here the kneeling figure is distinctively male) [Of the five examples of this reverse type from various mints in my collection, the kneeling figure appears to be distinctively male. The female figure Donna has observed/shown appears to be an interesting variation.] Gratian AE3 - Siscia mint; 367-375 DN GRATIANVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right GLORIA RO - MANORVM ; Roma (stg) extends right hand to bound kneeling figure, holds labarum with chi-rho in left In fields: left- F ; right- A above k (in script?) In exergue: ASISC VE(ligate) (Not sure what to make of the ligature in the exergue. Anyone?) Gratian AE3 - Rome mint; 367-375 DN GRATIA - NVS PF AVG diademed, draped (and cuirassed?) bust right SECVRITAS REIPVBLICAE; Winged Victory/Security (adv left) holds wreath, clouds? at feet In exergue: R.PRIMA (Officina number spelled out. Unusual motif at feet of reverse figure; is this familiar to anyone. I wish it were clearer.) Gratian AE4 - Siscia mint; 378-383 DN GRATIA - NVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right VOT / X X // MVLT / X X in wreath In exergue: ASIS_ (on magnification) Gratian AE4 - Nicomedia mint; 378-383 DN GRATIA - NVS PF AVG diademed, (draped and cuirassed?) bust right VOT / X X // MVLT / XXX in wreath In exergue: SMNB

I have selected four coins for Valens; an AE1, 2 Ae3, and a siliqua. Valens, AE1 - 26x27mm Nicomedia mint, 364 CE DN VALEN - S PF AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right RESTITVTOR REIPVBLICAE, Valens standing facing, head right, holding labarum (L) and victoriola (R). In exergue: SMNA Valens, AE3 -18x19mm Sirmium mint, 364 CE DN VALEN - S PF AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right RESTITV - TOR REIP, Valens standing facing, head right, holding labarum (L) and victoriola (R). In exergue: BSIRM Valens, AE3 -18mm Siscia mint, 364 CE DN VALEN - S PF AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right SECVRITAS - REPVBLICAE, Securitas advancing left holding wreath In exergue: frond+ASISC Valens, Siliqua - 18mm Antioch mint, 367-375 CE DN VALENS - PF AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right VOT X MVLT XX in wreath In exergue: dot+ANT I have chosen three coins for Procopius (an AE2 and two AE3) each having a distinctive reverse detail. Procopius AE2 - 20x21mm Constantinople mint; 365-66 DN PROCO - PIVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust left REPARATIO FEL TEMP <dot> emperor with labarum (L) and shield (R) Chi-Rho above(R); mushroom(?) below(L); In exergue: CONSA Procopius AE3 - 19mm Heraclea mint; 365-66 DN PROCO - PIVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust left REPARATI - O FEL TEMP <dot> emperor with labarum (L) and shield (R) Chi-Rho above(R); dot to(L); In exergue: SMHB Procopius AE3 - 17x18mm Constantinople mint; 365-66 DN PROCO - PIVS PF AVG diademed, draped and cuirassed bust left REPARATI - O FEL TEMP <dot> emperor with labarum (L) and shield (R) Chi-Rho above(R); head of wheat(L); In exergue: CONS<gamma>

Please forgive the clumsy first post. I hope I'm not too late with Valentinus I. Just discovered the list and this seemed like a good place to start. Late to the party and can only hope for another round. AE3 19mm, 2.04g 364-367 O: DN VALENTINI ANVS P F AVG Sirmium R: RESTITV - TOR REIP exergue: ASIRM Goddess stands facing r.; holds ensign/labarum in R (to L) and Victory on orb in L (facing to L) AE3 2.04g R: SECVRITAS REIPVBLICAE Arelate/Constantia Securitas as Victory winged holding wreath adv. to L fields L&R: OF III; exergue: CONST The mark for officina 3 appears in the left and right fields AE3 1.67g O: DN VALENTINI ANVS P F AVG Rome R: SECVRITAS REIPVBLICAE; exergue: R.QVARTA Securitas as Victory winged holding wreath adv. to L The mark for officina 4 appears in the exergue spelled out as QUARTA