leeshiel

12 hours ago, Romismatist said:

@leeshieldid you find this with your metal detector as well? Nice artefact!

Thanks, yes it was i dont buy anything,

The crown will keep this one it will be the best example on the PAS database. https://finds.org.uk/

36 minutes ago, seth77 said:

This is probably Duplessy 213c and the symbol separatif is probably trefle not triangle. The L in the obverse legend is also decorated with a globule which is recorded by Duplessy as 213b. Both variations date to 1305.

Many thanks it's now in the hands of the British museum, as a coin it's nothing made into a dress hook in this condition it's very rare.

1 hour ago, Spaniard said:

Was it an MD find?

Yes it was, i dont buy anything i only collect what i find.

55 minutes ago, LONGINUS said:

Welcome to the forum, @leeshiel — Great post!

 🤝

Thank you.

12 hours ago, Spaniard said:

Nice coin with lovely patina.

Thank you.

4 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

Yes RIC IX, 94b, Roma seated on cuirass (or 106a, which seems to be identical but dated later).

Thanks John.

Nice little coin lovely natural patina it looks better in hand,

I believe it to be a Siliqua Theodosius I Trier mint RIC IX 94b but i could be wrong.

13 hours ago, DCCR said:

It's hard to say. I've checked all [1] the coins recorded from these dies and this is the only one that shows the roundel in front of the horse.  The roundel is poorly engraved on a number of other dies so it might have been this shape from the start.   Die breaks on the obverse and reverse put Lee's coin after the CR one, and the entire paw (actually a hairlock) seems to be broken on that, so it does look like Lee's is recut, although it would be nice to see some other coins that show this portion as well to be sure.

 

[1] Caveat - some of the coins don't have die numbers assigned to them so I can't be sure they aren't matches.  I quick check suggests that they aren't, but I'm not die matching them to be 100% sure

 

Many thanks,

I have found this link i will have a good luck through it.

https://iacb.arch.ox.ac.uk/id/abc.1722

4 minutes ago, idesofmarch01 said:

Recently I added two more coins to my very small (now three) Celtics.  One of them was this Corieltauvi stater; the obverse is described as "Wreath, crescent and cloak motifs forming stylized head of Apollo" so I've included a typical Greek Apollo stater to illustrate the "non-stylized" Apollo:

[Britannia, the Corieltauvi AV Stater. North East Coast series. Circa 60-50 BC. 6.17 g.  18.5mm Wreath, crescent and cloak motifs forming stylised head of Apollo; line of pellets at neck truncation / Disjointed lunate horse to left with many pellets above, pellet-in-annulet before, crescent and pellet above decorated base below.]

My most recent Celtic addition is this Easter Celtic "Colchis" or "Kolchis,", the obverse described as "Stylized head of Athena" and the reverse described as "Highly stylized Nike."  I've included a typical Athena/Nike stater for comparison.

[Eastern Celts 'Colchis.' (16.45mm, 3.62  g. 7h) Undetermined mint. Gold stater 2nd/1st century BC. Stylized head of Athena.  Rev. Highly stylized Nike.]  I especially like this Celtic coin's reverse with the abstract angel's wings.

 

Very nice your Corieltauvi  has been in discussion in this thread nice coin,

https://www.sixbid.com/de/roma-numismatics-ltd/9878/spain-gaul-and-celtic/8480491/britannia-the-corieltauvi-av-stater?term&orderCol=lot_number&orderDirection=asc&priceFrom&displayMode=large&auctionSessions=&sidebarIsSticky=false

15 minutes ago, Spaniard said:

@leeshiel...Wow!...Great video..

I'm interested in if you kept the soil block with imprint?...A lovely reminder...

Thank you, no i didn't i guess it would have been hard to preserve,

The day i found it i wasn't finding much and i was heading to another field when i came across some large pebbles that was sounding off pebbles shouldn't make my machine go bleep,

Knowing Celts/Romans etc cooked with pebbles i presumed they had been in contact with a bronze cooking pot i started to search the area  and found it close to the pebbles,

If i didn't have this knowledge i would never have found it.

1 hour ago, John Conduitt said:

Don't forget that the obverse and reverse dies will have different volumes. If there was only one 'Corieltauvi stater' type, there would be a sort of relay of dies from start to finish. If the obverse die lasted longer, you could have 10 matches for that and only 3 for the reverse. One side of the coin is rarer than the other, while the combination of the two might be unique. This would be true of many coins, so they would be common in being unique.

Thanks John i am sure Dr Sills will be aware of this

I have received this information when i asked elsewhere previously "not Dr Sills", this is a near match  https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/chris-rudd/catalogue-id-chris-10019/lot-d7f46bca-8d49-4c6a-8413-a8b201010ba9?fbclid=IwAR1jhYB6r75amcfL8XZzBBMp2N2buLKwXfPo_y05EGtdnadzb1olCIT4UTo

Apart from

One very interesting thing is that the obverse die in the link you provided is earlier as Lee's obverse die has been re-touched - the top 'bear's paw' has had a new 'claw' added

14 minutes ago, DCCR said:

What is it you still want to know?  John Sills won't value it for you and will probably just direct you to Liz at Chris Rudd Ltd.

I am wanting to know how many coins recorded struck from similar/same dies its OK saying 86 is recorded but most of them are from different dies,

40 minutes ago, leeshiel said:

learn more about this coin is to contact Dr Sills https://www.arch.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-john-a-sills

I wasn't going to ask for value, if you take time to read through the thread CR wants to view the coin before they will provide any information and i am not prepared to send them the coin at this stage.

13 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

This is what I meant when I was talking about categorisation driving 'rarity'. It's subjective and rather arbitrary.

Thank you for the detailed explanation John you have put to words my thoughts,

I think the way forward to learn more about this coin is to contact Dr Sills https://www.arch.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-john-a-sills

Thank for your time and help i will update the thread if i get to learn more.

36 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

Ok fair enough. That makes sense. They need to know it's real.

Scarcity is tricky to value. Most Celtic coins are at least scarce. In ABC, only two of 16 uninscribed Corieltauvi gold staters are common, with most very or extremely rare. But all 16 could be said to be part of the same series. So scarcity is entirely dependent on categorisation, and a 'scarce' variety is some way from the rarest.

You're right about the condition. But valuing on condition is not easy, since prices are rather open ended with the highest condition coins. Roma sold this (previously Chris Rudd) for £3,200 in September, about £4,000 with fees. This one sold for £1,400 at Spink in 2014, so that's £1,750 with fees. This from Leu was a similar price last year, but a worse coin. Again, a similar price from CNG in 2020, while this was a little less in 2018 (both good coins). AH Baldwins sold a much worse one in 2016 for £380. So that's quite a range, although it's hard to see it being less than £1,750, while £4,000 is the top end.

Thank you for taking time to look and provide information John appreciated,

It's all confusing to me all coins you have listed are Spink reverence 29 fair enough my coin is Spink reverence 29, but every coin is different to mine in one way or another so how do you determine what coin is rare ?,

DCCR stated 86 coins recorded how many variants out of the 86 is known, maybe i am missing the obvious,

Take this coin for instance just a quick glance it's totally different.

4 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

You could email Liz Cottam at Chris Rudd for an idea of value. They would know the differences in value based on condition and dies. Most coins in their auctions go for at least double the estimates, although of course, the ones that go higher have condition and rarity.

Thanks John i did email them when i first discovered it, they wont tell you anything unless you send them the coin to look at,

8 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

although of course, the ones that go higher have condition and rarity.

According to the listing above from 2018 my coin is scarce and in better condition.

On 11/22/2022 at 8:15 PM, Al Kowsky said:

I think the best way to evaluate Celtic coins is to see what prices they are fetching in European auctions, where the real market is. American auction results can be misleading because the collector base here is small but growing. An excellent source to explore is the website www.celticcoins.com, where prices realized on Chris Rudd auctions are available. I downloaded the entire John Fellows Collection, Part 2, Auction 170 . May 17, 2020, that includes the prices realized. My coin type & yours were in that auction, & listed as Rare 😊. I bought my ABC 1022 from a CNG auction, slabbed by NGC: AU, Strike 5/5, Surface 4/5. 

Many thanks it's hard to find prices this coin is from the same die

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/chris-rudd/catalogue-id-chris-10019/lot-d7f46bca-8d49-4c6a-8413-a8b201010ba9

But all i can find out is it started at £1400 i know CR will put a come and get me estimate on it so i would presume it went for more, in the listing it states (EF, large flan of golden gold, sharply struck, full horse. Heavyweight, handsome, hard to find in such superlative condition. SCARCE)

I guess the only way to find it's true value is to put it through auction but going on the above i would imagine 3/4£K.
 

4 hours ago, DCCR said:

Nice find Lee 🙂.  ABC is 12 years old and many of the rarity ratings are out of date now.  If it was listed as scarce in a Chris Rudd auction then it's at least scarce now (51 to 100 coins).   I've just checked and there are 86 recorded in the CCI at the moment.

If you are on Facebook and want to find out more about Celtic coins, I can recomend this group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2375591872472089

Many thanks that group identified it,

46 minutes ago, Al Kowsky said:

Thanks for sharing the video, it gives the coin greater importance 😊.

Thank you,

What sort of value would you put on the coin please it's not for sale but it would be nice to have a ball park figure, the one that CR sold through auction started off at £1400  i don't know the hammer price as they dont publish them but it's condition wasn't a patch on mine

1 minute ago, Al Kowsky said:

Of course I consider your coin rare, as I do mine 🤩. I used the Chris Rudd reference just to make it clear it's not my opinion, it came from the printed page of Rudd's book 😉. His book ANCIENT BRITISH COINS is the bible for British Celtic coins.

Thanks i thought the quote was disputing it,

i know very little about Celtic coins my information was taken from a coin sold by CR that was from the same die.

If you haven't guessed i am a metal detetorist the moment i found it.

20 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

Where did you get it from?

I found it in a field John.

3 hours ago, Al Kowsky said:

Thanks for posting your interesting gold stater of the Corieltavi tribe (considered Rare by Chris Rudd),

Your welcome thanks for the information, (so its not a rare coin? considered by you) i think Chris considered it scarce maybe it is in this condition? your example is a bit battered around the edge and worn.

North East Coast. Left Type. Sills Mint B, fig.8. c.60-50 BC. Gold stater. 19mm. 6.09g. Wreath motif with leaves facing inwards, horizontal line of pellets below./ Lunate horse left, pellets and crescent above, large pellet below, zigzag exergual decoration. ABC 1722, 0VA 804, BMC 193-99, S 29. SCARCE.

9 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

More than £500, less than £1000.

Thanks John that's good to know.

13 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

It's a lovely coin. Worth a fair bit now too.

Thank you John i might do a little more toning of the reverse,

What sort of value would you put on the coin please it's not for sale but it would be nice to have a ball park figure.

This is about as good as it gets.

49 minutes ago, Spaniard said:

Interesting idea using a thorn as a tool

:-).

https://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/conservation-journal/using-thorns-to-conserve-the-hoard