A remarkable ancient imitation

[Valentinian]

I have had this coin since 2003. You might find it interesting.

19 mm. 3.06 grams.
T CAESAR VESPASIANVS, head of Titus right
PON MAX TR P COS VI, Victory on prow left, holding wreath and palm.

It is an ancient imitation, remarkably well done. 
Titus fourrée (silver-plated) denarius with a reverse of Vespasian. The silver plating is almost complete, with tiny holes at 6:30 on the rim and just before the nose, plus the crack at 1:00 on the reverse rim. Also, there are slight bulges below Victory's arm and either side of her legs where (I think) the silver is not well attached to the core. The clinching factor is that it is a hybrid, which is far more common for imitations than for official coins.

RIC II.I Vespasian obverse for Titus of #971-4, dated 77-78, and reverse of #777 ("C2", dated 75 for COS VI).

I have collected ancient imitations and many have amusing portraits for being so crude. Some have poor attempts at an official portrait. Casts from official originals can have perfect style, but only a few fourrés have an excellent portrait. This is one of them. 

Show us some ancient imitations.
 

 

[Victor_Clark]

I have been working through a little (pun intended--these are 12mm) hoard  of unofficial SALVS REIPVBLICAE coins from Alexandria, struck during rule of Theodosius I, circa A.D. 388-392.

 

 

 

 

[Heliodromus]

There's an EID MAR fouree in the upcoming Triton sale that looks official, or extremely close, and is discussed by Aaron Berk in his latest podcast # 57 (at 41:40). He says that some of these are believed (known?) to have been struck with official dies, but not much discussion around that.

 

Edited January 2 by Heliodromus

[Valentinian]

Here is a link to the Triton EID MAR:
https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/view/4-FAT97X/the-republicans-brutus-late-summer-autumn-42-bc-ar-denarius-175mm-375-g-12h-military-mint-traveling-with-brutus-and-cassius-in-western-asia-minor-or-northern-greece-l-plaetorius-cestianus-magistrate-good-vf
 

It has a video as well as photographs. 

[Postvmvs]

I collect local imitations of Postumus (and his successors). Here are a few that I have acquired recently:

[airhead1983]

My only 2024 purchase, but, it’s sparked a new fascination!

The Headless Praying Mantis imitation. 
 

Erin

 

[Parthicus]

I've always felt this imitation of a Constantine I coin had a certain charm:

 

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

It is indeed a remarkable fourree!

Here's my only remarkable fourree, with as good or better style than the original:

(original description, from 2010)

C. Norbanus fourreé Denarius (plated), ca. 83 BC, Rome.
Obv: C NORBIANVS, control number LXXXV to left, diademed head of Venus right.
Rev: Corn ear, fasces and caduceus reverse.
18-20 mm, 3.16 g
Syd. 739

Almost extremely fine. The light weight and the apparent small breaks on the reverse make it highly probable that this is an extremely well done ancient fourrée.

[Victor_Clark]

40 minutes ago, Parthicus said:

I've always felt this imitation of a Constantine I coin had a certain charm:

 

 

Unofficial VLPP's...That's one of my favorite collecting areas...I have 160 uploaded and several hundred more to go

 

https://constantinethegreatcoins.com/barb2/

 

a recent acquisition--

 

Edited January 3 by Victor_Clark
added a coin...cause I have had 2 large glasses of whiskey!

[hotwheelsearl]

why anybody would make an imitation of a low-value reduced FTR to begin with is beyond me. This is like the counterfeit US 1 cent coin I found when I was a kid. Why.....

[hotwheelsearl]

1 hour ago, Victor_Clark said:

 

Unofficial VLPP's...That's one of my favorite collecting areas...I have 160 uploaded and several hundred more to go

 

https://constantinethegreatcoins.com/barb2/

 

a recent acquisition--

 

Victor, I am a huge fan of yours. I absolutely love the VLPP barbs, especially the ones with a good local artistic style. I believe some of these must have been produced by local Celtic artisans inserting their cultural style into these coins. They often are well-executed with a strong stylization component and what must have been a high level of pride in artistry.

 

Here is mine, with a beautifully stylized obv and rev that has a heavy focus on dots. Unlike yours, the obv text has some "letter-like" forms while the rev has the IIIIIIIII motif. I like my reverse because the celator made it completely symmetrical, with just a few IIIs on each side and a very interesting attempt at representing the shield with a circle of dots with more dots inside. .

[maridvnvm]

This Vespasian was a well plated fouree. The blown areas are clear to see on both sides where the plating separated from the core.

[maridvnvm]

I evidently also have a liking for ancient imitations as I have gathered several from a wide range of periods.....

Egypt, Athens Imitative, Silver tetradrachm
Obv:– Head of Athena right, droopy eye, crested helmet with olive leaves and bent-back palmette, wire necklace, round earring, hair in parallel curves.
Rev:– ΑΘΕ, right, owl standing right, head facing, erect in posture, olive sprig and crescent left, all within incuse square;
Minted in Egypt from . B.C. 420 - 380.
Reference:– cf. SNG Cop 31 ff., SGCV I 2526 (Athens),

The metal did not fill the die completely on the obverse resulting in the rough flat high area near Athena's temple. A test cut on the reverse was filled with pitch in antiquity.

From the Harald Ulrik Sverdrup Collection. Ex CNG. From a small hoard of 5 Athenian and 4 Athenian imitative issues.

Early in his reign the Egyptian Pharaoh Hakor, who ruled from 393 to 380 B.C., revolted against his overlord, the Persian King Artaxerxes. In 390 B.C. Hakor joined a tripartite alliance with Athens and King Evagoras of Cyprus. Persian attacks on Egypt in 385 and 383 were repulsed by Egyptian soldiers and Greek mercenaries under the command of the Athenian general Chabrias. Perhaps these coins were struck to pay the general and his Greek mercenaries."

17.157g, 25.3mm, 270o

[maridvnvm]

Claudius Ae AS Ancient imitative

Obv:- TI CLAVDIVS CAESAR AVG P M TR P IMP, bare head left
Rev:- CONSTANTIAE AVGVSTI S-C, Constantia, helmeted and in military dress, standing left, holding long spear in left hand
Minted in Rome. A.D. 41-50
Reference:- RIC 95, Cohen 14, BMC 140

The style looks a little crude and the legends lack uniformity though are quite legible. It is also light, weighing in at only 7.85 gms. The die orientation is 180 degrees.

[ambr0zie]

Another Flavian imitation. The obverse is decently copied, although not perfect, but on the reverse there were large issues with remembering how to write the letters. 

 

A very tiny VRBS ROMA (10 mm)

A Julian II double maiorina

[Heliodromus]

7 hours ago, hotwheelsearl said:

why anybody would make an imitation of a low-value reduced FTR to begin with is beyond me. This is like the counterfeit US 1 cent coin I found when I was a kid. Why.....

I'm not sure of the value of the later reduced fallen horseman, but ...

The three FEL TEMP denominations had varying degrees of silver content, with the fallen horseman being of the most valuable denomination with 3% silver (the other two had 1.5% and 0% silver). I'm not sure about 348 AD when the FEL TEMPs were issued, but at the time of Diocletian's monetary reform the silver:copper value ratio was 100:1, meaning that for a 5% silver nummus, almost 85% of the value was from the silver content!! Similarly for the fallen horseman, a LOT of the face value would have come from the silver content, so there was a lot of profit to be had by forging them in 100% bronze.

The silver content was also the motive for the VLPP imitations - the VLPP was part of a coinage reform that had upped the declining silver content to ~5% and therefore created an opportunity for imitations.

 

Edited January 3 by Heliodromus

[maridvnvm]

Here is a small fallen horseman.....

Constans Ancient imitative
Obv:– D N CONSTA-N[S P F AVG], Pearl diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:– [FEL TEMP RE--IARAIIII, Soldier standing left, knee raised, spearing a fallen horseman who is wearing a Phrygian helmet, reaching backwards
Tiny barbarous imitation.

1.22 gms. 180 degrees. 12.77 mm

This one is much bigger

Constantius II - Ancient imitative

Obv:– D N CONSTAN-TIVS P F AVGV, Pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed bust right
Rev:- FEL TEMP REPARATIO, Helmeted soldier to left, shield on left arm, spearing falling horseman; shield on ground at right. Horseman is bearded and falls forward clutching horse's neck
4.58gms. 23.49mm. 0 degrees

There are FEL TEMP imitations of the hut and galley types too...

[John Conduitt]

I have a lot of imitations but not so many of denarii and not so nice. Plated coins don't seem to survive well.

I presume the reason they counterfeited low value coins was because it was easier to pass them off. I also don't know that they were all that 'low value' - worth something like an hour's work for a skilled tradesman. So not like today, where small change is used to prevent staff theft and can be nominal value.

This is silver. I'm not sure how much less silver there is than in an official coin. Not much, I don't think, but a small percentage made it worth it.

Valens Imitation Siliqua, 377-383

Imitating Trier. Silver, 18mm, 2.18g. Pearl-diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right; D N VAPGN-SI P F AVG. Roma seated left on throne, holding inverted spear and Victoriola on globe; VRBS ROMA; TRPS in exergue (cf RIC IX 27). From the Colkirk (Norfolk) Hoard 2020, deposited 402. PAS: NMS-AC7F17.

The Gallic Empire seemed to have more imitations than official coins. But then they were not forgeries as such.

Tetricus I Barbarous Radiate, 274-280

Imitating Colonia Agrippinensis. Bronze, 13mm, 0.86g. Radiate head left; (IMP TET)RICVS (P F AVG). Salus standing facing, head left; SA(LVS AVGG) (cf RIC V2, 127). From the Whitchurch (Somerset) Hoard.

The Celts produced a lot of 'bronze cores'. I don't think anyone knows if they were official or not. Many are amazingly close to the official coins, so perhaps they simply struck two metals with the same dies.

Catti ‘Tree Type’ Fourée Stater Core, 1-20

Dobunni (Gloucestershire). Bronze, 18mm, 3.47g. Tree. Disjointed horse with triple tail right; ornaments around, wheel with uneven spokes below; CATTI above (cf ABC 2057; cf Van Arsdell 1130-1). Catti (‘the cat’) ruled after Corio and possibly inherited the northern Dobunnic lands from Bodvoc.

[maridvnvm]

@Victor_Clark That's a nice looking group. I have one in my imitative collection.

[Heliodromus]

1 hour ago, John Conduitt said:

This is silver. I'm not sure how much less silver there is than in an official coin. Not much, I don't think, but a small percentage made it worth it.

You could get a rough idea by an accurate density measurement. Silver is 10.49 g/cm^3 and Bronze is 7.4-8.9 (Copper 8.9, Tin 7.3).

Judging by how debased denarii got (< 50% silver by time of Septimius Severus), while still appearing silver in color, it'd be surprising if there wasn't substantial bronze content. Even Constantine's short-lived "trier billion" denomination, with only 20% silver, had a pretty good silverish appearance.

Can you be sure it's not a fouree ?

 

[maridvnvm]

I have a few imitative denarii too. My main focus is those that imitate the eastern mint denarii of Septimius Severus. A pair that share an obverse die but have different reverse types, bought 8 years apart is notable amongst them.

 

[David Atherton]

17 hours ago, Valentinian said:

I have had this coin since 2003. You might find it interesting.

19 mm. 3.06 grams.
T CAESAR VESPASIANVS, head of Titus right
PON MAX TR P COS VI, Victory on prow left, holding wreath and palm.

It is an ancient imitation, remarkably well done. 
Titus fourrée (silver-plated) denarius with a reverse of Vespasian. The silver plating is almost complete, with tiny holes at 6:30 on the rim and just before the nose, plus the crack at 1:00 on the reverse rim. Also, there are slight bulges below Victory's arm and either side of her legs where (I think) the silver is not well attached to the core. The clinching factor is that it is a hybrid, which is far more common for imitations than for official coins.

RIC II.I Vespasian obverse for Titus of #971-4, dated 77-78, and reverse of #777 ("C2", dated 75 for COS VI).

I have collected ancient imitations and many have amusing portraits for being so crude. Some have poor attempts at an official portrait. Casts from official originals can have perfect style, but only a few fourrés have an excellent portrait. This is one of them. 

Show us some ancient imitations.
 

 

Probably one the best plated Flavian denarii I've ever seen. Wow.

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

Hard to understand the motive behind ancient imitations but clearly there must have been a tidy profit to be made otherwise why bother.

I'm thinking of the FTR Constantius copies from Sri Lanka let's say. Somehow these coins had value in the international trade at the time. Commodities from the Roman Empire left the port of Berenike in Egypt, crossed the Arabian sea and the Indian Ocean to get to Ceylon. Presumably valuable spices and other things from South Asia made their way back to the Roman world.

[Victor_Clark]

4 minutes ago, Ancient Coin Hunter said:

Hard to understand the motive behind ancient imitations but clearly there must have been a tidy profit to be made otherwise why bother.

The easiest answer is coin shortage. From my page that is mainly about 4th century AD unofficial issues...with info from Pierre Bastien,  "Imitations of Late Roman Bronze Coins, 318-363" 

Bastien, Pierre. “Imitations of Late Roman Bronze Coins, 318-363.” ANSMN  30 (1985) : 143-177.

There are two terms in use to describe how widespread counterfeiting was-- endemic and epidemic.1 Endemic is typified by smaller outbreaks and although somewhat sporadic, was almost always present to some extent. Epidemic counterfeiting was on a large scale and generally over a large area. The time period 318- 363 had five periods of epidemic counterfeiting. The first was after the monetary reform of Constantine in 318 and lasted until 330. This reform included adding more silver to the VLPP coinage (the imitative/counterfeit VLPP's are the real focus of this page). Other coins that were commonly copied during this first period were VIRTVS EXERCIT, BEATA TRANQVILLITAS, VOTA, SARMATIA and PROVIDENTIAE coins. The second period started during the last years of Constantine's reign and ended between 342 and 348. Some common counterfeits were GLORIA EXERCITVS, VRBS ROMA and CONSTANTINOPOLIS types. The third period came after the reform of 348 which introduced the maiorina and the commonly copied coins were the various FEL TEMP REPARATIO types. The fourth period followed the usurpation of Magnentius in A.D. 350, GLORIA ROMANORVM and VICTORIAE coins were some of the common types counterfeited. The last period of epidemic counterfeiting occurred after the fall of Magnentius.

 

https://constantinethegreatcoins.com/barb2/

[Heliodromus]

28 minutes ago, Victor_Clark said:

The easiest answer is coin shortage.

I think in general there are two motivations, which would apply at different times.

1) Simple fraud - trying to pass a cheap imitation of a coin as the real thing, whether that's a fourree or base metal VLPP.

2) Coin shortage - unofficially produced coinage, not trying to be deceptive about what they are made of, where it'd seem the only profit to be had was the difference between production cost and the value they were accepted at (i.e. seignorage). Minims might be a good example of this.