sellers HATE this one sneaky trick! (accusations of fraud + libel = free coin)

[hotwheelsearl]

This is a fun one. Sold a provincial Philip II for $24, a good price for the coin.

Buyer claims they did not receive it. I said sorry, tracking shows it was delivered.

Buyer says no, I didn't get it. Further he then says that I relisted the same coin again and sends me a link to a DIFFERENT coin.

I said no, that's NOT the same coin, it's clearly different. Buyer accuses me of fraud.

I said tracking shows it's there, if it was in your mailbox and now is not, then contact postal authorities to report a theft.

Radio silence for a few days and then buyer appeals to eBay, who naturally sides with them.

Buyer gets a free coin.

 

[CPK]

That's rotten. How could eBay side with the buyer if tracking showed it had been delivered? Doesn't that release you as seller of the responsibility? If not then, at what point?

Sorry to hear of this! Is there any recourse to take as seller?

[John Conduitt]

I've heard of this happening a lot. As I understood it, if you have proof of postage eBay are not meant to side with the buyer.

What I don't understand is the concept of eBay as arbitrator. They are not law enforcement and re-funding a buyer without agreement of the seller and against the proof of postage evidence would appear to be theft.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

That's awful.  I at least was honest when I had two lost coins over the years, and insisted on waiting a month for it to show up before anything was refunded.

[metapontius]

The buyer must have filed a "not as described" against you and not a "not received".

Ebay will almost always side with the seller on a "not received" charge if the seller provides a tracking number that shows delivered.

A "not as described" filed by the buyer is a little more difficult.  If the seller offers returns, usually Ebay will require the item to be returned for a refund.   If the seller does not offer returns, Ebay will usually just refund the buyer.

If the seller does not respond at all to Ebay for the issue, Ebay will refund the buyer.

Selling on Ebay requires the sellers to know the ropes...  But sometimes that does not even help.

[kirispupis]

This is pretty standard.

When my son had his sports card business, he lost many thousands to these types of claims. It's not just EBay, but credit card companies. No matter what proof he showed that the goods were delivered, the customers always received a refund. It was one of the factors that closed his business because he refused to do what other sellers do - raise their prices to compensate for these low lifes.

This is one reason why I typically don't sell things through EBay. I list them on Facebook Marketplace, who don't allow returns.

[sand]

I recommend, put that buyer on a "bad list", and don't sell to that buyer again. Does Ebay allow that?

[John Conduitt]

57 minutes ago, sand said:

I recommend, put that buyer on a "bad list", and don't sell to that buyer again. Does Ebay allow that?

Yes. I think eBay also keep track of how many claims a buyer makes and how many orders get 'lost', so if a buyer tried this a lot, they would not be able to claim so easily. At least there's the consolation that they wasted a 'life' for a $24 coin 🤣
 

1 hour ago, kirispupis said:

This is one reason why I typically don't sell things through EBay. I list them on Facebook Marketplace, who don't allow returns.

Facebook Marketplace seems to be the Wild West. I hear about scams there far more than anywhere else.

The seller on eBay can also choose not to allow returns, but this doesn't cover you if you fail to deliver at all, which is the allegation here.

Edited November 30, 2024 by John Conduitt

[Phil Davis]

Does this jerk ever sell anything on Ebay? Wouldn't have to be a coin. Fair's fair if you do the same thing back at him.

[savitale]

Sorry to hear about this. Selling on eBay is rife with headaches. I think large retail businesses budget about 2% for "shrink" which is mostly theft. I would not be surprised if 2% of all eBay transactions are also theft. 

[hotwheelsearl]

This has happened a few times before and it's ALWAYS for low-value items. Somehow nobody claims non-receipt of multi-hundred dollar items but once things are in the $25-and-under realm it appears its free reign for theft.

It's quite annoying and frustrating because I feel like a shopkeeper watching someone walk out of the store with stolen goods with nothing I can do about it!

[robinjojo]

Sadly, there will always be people who game the system for nefarious purposes, a scourge for sellers to be sure. 

Isn't there a way to appeal a decision at eBay?

Edited November 30, 2024 by robinjojo

[Ryro]

I had this happen. I just called ebay, jumped through hoops to talk to an actual human, and then had them check that it showed delivered and they sided with me and dropped the dispute. Though, I did that as soon as the person claimed they didn't receive it. I hope you haven't waited too long. But have you tried calling ebay? 

The person then tried to give me negative feedback. I called back and had it removed. Their processes suck, but if you're willing to make a call they usually make the right decision in my experience. 

[hotwheelsearl]

I am shocked right now. I went through the appeal process and amazingly, it was decided in my favor. I’m dumbstruck because eBay almost NEVER sides with the seller.

[wuntbedruv]

Of course, the upshot of this behaviour from their end is they have the coin but you also have their address, which is useful ammunition to have.

Glad to hear your appeal was accepted!

[maridvnvm]

I had a somewhat similar incident on ebay. I sold a coin and shipped it tracked and signed for. The buyer told me that they had not received the coin and that it had obviously been either stolen en-route or that I was acting fraudulently and had not shipped the coin. I had provided him with the tracking information and informed him that it had been signed for 3 day previously. He informed me that the name of the person that had signed was nothing to do with him and that he had not received the coin. The name on the tracking was one letter shifted from the buyer name i.e. a typo by the postman. This went on for several more days with his accusations getting more inflammatory. I emailed him the signature, with the date and time which showed that someone with his surname had signed for it. It turned out that it had been taken in by a family member and it had been put aside but they had not told him. He had started escalation to ebay for a refund but then reluctantly withdrew this in the end.

[Original Skin Coins]

Glad your appeal went through! I've actually found eBay to be one of the more seller-friendly platforms. I've had a few chargebacks on buyer orders, and eBay fought/covered them all, and I've not yet had an issue with a item showing delivered and eBay siding with a buyer dispute. They do have a tendency to "lose" coins in their international shipping hub (including an expensive JC elephant denarius I sold), but they always eat the loss for those as well. And they have plenty of US-based customer service employees, who have generally been pretty helpful to me over chat or over the phone (and who seem to have a fair amount of authority/autonomy to take action). 

On a different platform, I once lost $2000 on a chargeback fraud order after they left me out to dry, even with signature tracking and restricted delivery. That one was particularly frustrating as I looked up the buyer and found they had a prior felony conviction for dealing meth! It's tough to argue through the nuances of that with a Chennai-based CS associate reading line-by-line through an SOP though. 

Edited December 2, 2024 by Original Skin Coins

[AETHER]

im glad you got ur funds back. I can't see eBay not siding with you since there is tracking. 

[hotwheelsearl]

8 hours ago, Original Skin Coins said:

Glad your appeal went through! I've actually found eBay to be one of the more seller-friendly platforms. I've had a few chargebacks on buyer orders, and eBay fought/covered them all, and I've not yet had an issue with a item showing delivered and eBay siding with a buyer dispute. They do have a tendency to "lose" coins in their international shipping hub (including an expensive JC elephant denarius I sold), but they always eat the loss for those as well. And they have plenty of US-based customer service employees, who have generally been pretty helpful to me over chat or over the phone (and who seem to have a fair amount of authority/autonomy to take action). 

On a different platform, I once lost $2000 on a chargeback fraud order after they left me out to dry, even with signature tracking and restricted delivery. That one was particularly frustrating as I looked up the buyer and found they had a prior felony conviction for dealing meth! It's tough to argue through the nuances of that with a Chennai-based CS associate reading line-by-line through an SOP though. 

Sheesh, that is something else! It's horrible that you didn't get your money back. Although online sales have gotten better over the years, it's still rife for fraud and theft, unfortunately.

 

I am one of the lucky ones...

[Curtisimo]

I’m glad that this worked out well for you @hotwheelsearl.

I suspect that most of these types of claims are by bad actors trying to game the system but I think it is possible that some buyers really don’t get the coins they bought even if it is showing as delivered. I’ve had stuff delivered to my neighbors before and I was freaking out looking around for my package. Luckily they are honest people and brought it to me.

Another time I bought a coin on eBay and the only thing I received was an envelope with a coin shaped hole in the side. I can only assume that the seller just placed or taped the coin to the envelope without wrapping it in cardboard like most people do. I sent him a photo of the envelope with the hole and he didn’t want to refund me. I had to make my first ever eBay claim. I bet that seller thought that I was ripping him off. There is always the possibility of a mishap when having stuff shipped.