First Reviews of Gladiator II

[Al Kowsky]

The first reviews of Gladiator II conducted by Rotten Tomatoes are very positive 😃!

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/gladiator-ii-first-reviews-the-grand-spectacle-of-action-and-intrigue-youre-hoping-for/?cmp=EMAIL~ROTTENTOMATOES~20241115_RTTM_MRKT_NLTR_US

Aside from skin color, the appearance of Denzel Washington is very similar to Roman coins of Macrinus 🤨.

I'm going to watch the movie at a wide-screen theater, are you 🤔?

[AETHER]

I only trust IMDB. But hard to have a flop with Denzel.

Edited November 15, 2024 by AETHER

[kirispupis]

I have my tickets already! I had IMAX tickets procured, but was forced to give them up because my significant other feels it's too loud. 😞 

One of my favorite coins is from Caracalla.

Carcalla
AR Denarius 17.75mm 3.10g
212 CE
Obverse: ANTONINVS PIVS AVG BRIT, laureate head right
Reverse: P M TR P XV COS III P P. Salus seated left, holding cornucopia and feeding serpent from patera
RIC IV 196 Rome

 

When I first started collecting ancients, this was one of my first pickups. I bought it because I thought it depicted a gladiator. I was a bit bummed to later learn it's Minerva/Athena.

Commodus
Rome 180-192 CE
AR Denarius 17mm, 2,87g

 

And here's my coin of Denzel Washington.

Macrinus AR Denarius
Rome, AD 217-218
3.58g, 20mm, 12h
IMP C M OPEL SEV MACRINVS AVG, laureate and cuirassed bust to right / SALVS PVBLICA, Salus seated to left, feeding snake coiled around altar.
RIC IV 85; BMCRE 75; RSC 114a
Ex collection of Z.P., Austria

 

I also recently added a timeline on my website for Caracalla. The others will take longer, since I'm going in alphabet order...

[Furryfrog02]

So I haven't been paying too much attention to this movie. I assumed it was another nostalgia cash-grab. I have heard lots of positive things about it though. Unfortunately, I will have to wait until it is streaming before I will have a chance to watch. 

[JAZ Numismatics]

21 hours ago, Al Kowsky said:

Aside from skin color, the appearance of Denzel Washington is very similar to Roman coins of Macrinus 

 

Macrinus was born in Caesarea Mauritania to a family of Berbers. If you look up images of Berbers, you'll see plenty of dark-skinned people, some much darker than Denzel. So actually he's a more realistic choice for the role than a Caucasian.

[JAZ Numismatics]

I currently have this nice bronze of Macrinus from Marcianopolis...

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Didn't a Roman historian also say that he wore an earring?  Or was that Aemilian?  It seems more like Macrinus, though.

I'm not a movie-goer, and I don't think I've ever watched the original Gladiator all the way through, although I enjoyed the wonderful musical score.  It was just perfect!

A podcast mentioned there was a Gladiator II themed popcorn bucket.  (From a google search for images): https://www.ebay.com/itm/226416058267?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=226416058267&targetid=2295557533150&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1023691&poi=&campaignid=21415038205&mkgroupid=173029509068&rlsatarget=pla-2295557533150&abcId=9450164&merchantid=6296724&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlOihk6rhiQMVGzUIBR3GaTSrEAQYBCABEgJ5mvD_BwE

 

Here's my only decent Macrinus coin:

I never noticed before, but look at the ear. Is that a flan flaw or an earring?

 

[Deinomenid]

I hate to be a partypooper  but the real reviews are pretty terrible. With no offense to the mostly largely-unknown sources quoted in the Rotten Tomatoes link. (It's down to 76% there too now).

The Economist (possibly not everyone's  first choice for a film reviewer though it has a decent arts section!) starts like this :

What does “Gladiator II” get wrong?

Its artistic errors are even worse than its historical ones.

What is the silliest moment in “Gladiator II”? Is it when a gladiator rides a rhino in the arena? Or when the hero, Lucius (Paul Mescal), fights alongside his wife in battle? (She has been provided with armour moulded to her breasts, armies in the third century being famous equal-opportunity employers, of course.) Or is it when he battles a computer-generated monkey—part-gibbon, part-Gollum?

Or maybe it is the way he keeps quoting from the first “Gladiator”, saying “Strength and honour” and “I will have my vengeance”—though he avoids asking “Are you not entertained?” Probably because the answer will be: not as much as before.

And goes downhill from there.

Women are improbably emancipated here: fighting in battle and bellowing in the Colosseum alongside the men. It is all very 2024—and very worthy. What it is not is very thrilling.

 

I'll get back in my box now (esp. as I'm sure it will do well!).

 

 

 

[JAZ Numismatics]

45 minutes ago, Deinomenid said:

I hate to be a partypooper  but the real reviews are pretty terrible. With no offense to the mostly largely-unknown sources quoted in the Rotten Tomatoes link. (It's down to 76% there too now).

The Economist (possibly not everyone's  first choice for a film reviewer though it has a decent arts section!) starts like this :

What does “Gladiator II” get wrong?

Its artistic errors are even worse than its historical ones.

What is the silliest moment in “Gladiator II”? Is it when a gladiator rides a rhino in the arena? Or when the hero, Lucius (Paul Mescal), fights alongside his wife in battle? (She has been provided with armour moulded to her breasts, armies in the third century being famous equal-opportunity employers, of course.) Or is it when he battles a computer-generated monkey—part-gibbon, part-Gollum?

Or maybe it is the way he keeps quoting from the first “Gladiator”, saying “Strength and honour” and “I will have my vengeance”—though he avoids asking “Are you not entertained?” Probably because the answer will be: not as much as before.

And goes downhill from there.

Women are improbably emancipated here: fighting in battle and bellowing in the Colosseum alongside the men. It is all very 2024—and very worthy. What it is not is very thrilling.

 

I'll get back in my box now (esp. as I'm sure it will do well!).

 

 

 

Well now I have to see it! I wonder if it's bad enough to be entertaining. I also wonder if they knew that Macrinus never actually made it to Rome to see the Colosseum...

[Phil Anthos]

Historical fact has never been a priority with this franchise before, so why bother now?

[DonnaML]

Speaking of accuracy, it seems from the reviews I've read that Geta and Caracalla are depicted as deranged, fey teenagers (sort of like the stereotype of Elagabalus) and co-emperors, with nothing about the latter murdering the former. Is Diadumenian in the movie? Any of the Julias?

Lucilla is apparently still alive in this movie, 30 years or so after she was assassinated.

If this movie takes place 16 years after the end of the first one, shouldn't Septimius Severus still be the emperor? Is he even mentioned in the movie?

And Macrinus was a lawyer and bureaucrat, not an ex-slave and arms dealer involved in the "gladiator business."

Plus, a lot of people really hate the CGI animals, etc.

The battle of Salamis is described, according to one comment I read, as having been between the Persians and the Trojans!

So: no plans to see it, as fondly as I remember the first movie. I can accept a lot in terms of liberties with history taken for artistic purposes, but this sounds like nothing is accurate except some of the characters' names.

Edited November 16, 2024 by DonnaML

[Furryfrog02]

I don't know...but neither of my Macrinus coins look anything like Denzel...

[Croatian Coin Collector]

9 hours ago, JAZ Numismatics said:

Macrinus was born in Caesarea Mauritania to a family of Berbers. If you look up images of Berbers, you'll see plenty of dark-skinned people, some much darker than Denzel. So actually he's a more realistic choice for the role than a Caucasian.

Yeah right...:

 

The "dark-skinned people" you mention aren't Berbers, they are mixed-raced people or blacks who live in traditional Berber areas, some of them might have adopted aspects of Berber culture, but they are no more Berber than an ethnic Pole living in a traditional Zulu area in South Africa is a Zulu, so actually Denzel Washington isn't a realistic choice at all, and in any case Macrinus himself was undoubtedly racially Caucasian:

 

[Croatian Coin Collector]

As for this movie full of ahistorical trash, I am not going to watch it.

[Al Kowsky]

The movie Gladiator II was never meant to be an accurate historical account of Roman history, it is purely entertainment just as the original movie Gladiator. In regards to skin color, there is no mention in any historical text that Macrinus was dark skinned. If anyone believes that Macrinus or any other Roman emperor was dark skinned or Negroid, you may find the link below of interest.

https://theromanempire.quora.com/Were-there-black-emperors-of-Rome#:~:text=Septimius Severus%2C the Roman emperor,Libyan%2C his mother an Italic.

[JAZ Numismatics]

38 minutes ago, Croatian Coin Collector said:

Yeah right...:

 

The "dark-skinned people" you mention aren't Berbers, they are mixed-raced people or blacks who live in traditional Berber areas, some of them might have adopted aspects of Berber culture, but they are no more Berber than an ethnic Pole living in a traditional Zulu area in South Africa is a Zulu, so actually Denzel Washington isn't a realistic choice at all, and in any case Macrinus himself was undoubtedly racially Caucasian:

 

Fair enough - I admit I didn't spend much time researching it!

[jfp7375]

It seems clear the movie is full of historical inaccuracies. So was the first one. The point is just to enjoy a theatrical representation of ancient Rome, a dramatic story, and some cool fight scenes. 

I'll see it and try to enjoy it for what it is!

[DonnaML]

7 hours ago, Croatian Coin Collector said:

Yeah right...:

 

The "dark-skinned people" you mention aren't Berbers, they are mixed-raced people or blacks who live in traditional Berber areas, some of them might have adopted aspects of Berber culture, but they are no more Berber than an ethnic Pole living in a traditional Zulu area in South Africa is a Zulu, so actually Denzel Washington isn't a realistic choice at all, and in any case Macrinus himself was undoubtedly racially Caucasian:

 

It would be extremely unwise to speculate, based on modern-day photos, regarding the appearance (or skin color, or "race") of indigenous Berbers/Amazigh prior to -- or at any point during -- the significant admixture over the last few thousand years with other North African populations, Phoenicians, Romans/Italians, Arabs, and even sub-Saharan Africans. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbers and the various illustrations. Let alone regarding the skin color of a specific individual who lived 1,800 years ago whose ethnic ancestry is known to have been mixed. 

Are we supposed to draw these conclusions from ancient Saharan rock art like this?

Or perhaps from this Egyptian statuette representing a Libyan Berber from the reign of Rameses II ?

Also, in deciding that "dark-skinned people" "aren't Berbers, they are mixed-raced people or blacks who live in traditional Berber areas," are we applying the one-drop rule?

I don't believe for one moment that the moment one crosses the Mediterannean, "indigenous African" automatically = sub-Saharan African.  But I don't think the other extreme is correct either. And I don't think there's anything wrong with casting someone like Denzel Washington in a movie that isn't intended to be a historical documentary. 

Of course one must also consider the "Moors" who invaded Spain 500 years after Macrinus, given that they were "Berbers" themselves. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors. I've seen contemporaneous depictions of them with all sorts of appearances. It's quite clear that by the time of Tudor England, 800 years after that invasion, "Moors" were thought of as being dark-skinned, swarthy, etc. Othello and all that. How that conception developed, I don't know.

Edited November 17, 2024 by DonnaML

[mcwyler]

Personally I don't see anything wrong in casting any person as any other person. A number of reasons…
1. Actors are paid to pretend to be someone they aren't. It's their job.
2. While casting a black person as a white person or vice versa may sometimes not succeed in suspending disbelief in the audience, why get cross about it? See (5).
3. In Shakespeare's time women were played by men. All of them apparently. We don't burn his books today for traducing equal opportunities.
4. Sometimes an apparent miscasting may help. Granted this will normally be comedy not historical drama.
5. Life's too short.
 

[AncientJoe]

I just saw the new Gladiator in theaters and enjoyed it! It was about as historically accurate as a Marvel movie but still visually stunning.

Edited November 23, 2024 by AncientJoe

[kirispupis]

Just finished watching it. The movie wasn't horrible, but I had a difficult time getting into it. Every twist is well telegraphed and there are no real surprises in who makes it and who doesn't. I also wonder whether at times it was made intentionally incorrect.

• A naval battle between the Persians and the Trojans
• Talking about "gold denarii", then repeating "denarii"
• A female senator

The original is one of my wife's favorite movies, but I never really liked it. We both agreed that the sequel wasn't very good. That being said, the major issues are plot and drama. I felt the actors chosen did a good job in their roles.

[Limes]

I saw the movie yesterday. I can't help compare it to the first movie, which was absolutely fantastic. In that sense, it doesn't help that the movie refers to the first movie all the time, too. Some plot elements are boring, to be expecting, and some elements are completely missing and should have been given more attention. And then there are smaller parts that are simply annoying. I mean, stop making the main character say that he's not the speech-giving guy, when he gives a lot of speeches throughout the movie. The end of the film was completely unnecessary, and simply silly. I care little about historical inaccuracies, but I do believe if you make a movie a bit more historical accurate, it overall improves the quality. 

 Nevertheless, overall, it was entertaining. The fighting scene's were fun to look at. Macrinus and Geta were played really well. It was fun to see some of the character of the first movie return. I did like that a couple of times the terrible smell of the city was mentioned. At least that is accurate 🙂

Most importantly, here's the real denarius:

 

[JAZ Numismatics]

My Gladiator II review.

[Al Kowsky]

26 minutes ago, JAZ Numismatics said:

My Gladiator II review.

It's been said "You can't make a horse by cutting the ears off a donkey".

[-monolith-]

Overall production cost: $250 million - $310 million

Opening week domestic ticket sales: $55 million

What else do I need to say. I will watch it for "free" when it streams digitally that way I can change the channel when I get bored.