Do you have any numismatic superstitions?

[JayAg47]

Are there any particular beliefs you hold about this hobby? For example, one common thing is not sharing a recent purchase until it's actually in hand.

Or are there certain coins with specific historical significance or backstories that you avoid owning?

[expat]

Apart from not displaying a coin purchase until i physically have it, there is not a single subject or image that I avoid. History is meant to educate people, not to hide it away because the subject might cause distress. Unfortunately, people continue to make the same mistakes over and over again for thousands of years. Take the common postings about the swastika. Apart from a brief period of its use in 1900.s Germany which is prominent in peoples minds, it is a symbol that was in use for 10,000 years. Taken out of context anything can become anathema to people. Just because either a left or right facing swastika is shown on on a Greek coin from more the 2000 years ago, some people refuse to buy one. Why? It had nothing to do with its use a couple of millennia later. Obviously my opinion, others will no doubt see it differently.

[mcwyler]

Agree @expat. My caveat would be that there are some people who like collecting Nazi symbols because they think it's cool.. it's not. They are sad sickos and shouldn't be humoured, in my opinion 

[kirispupis]

I have one strong superstition that I do follow:

I believe the coinage of Phokis from the Third Sacred War is cursed. The reason is the metal was obtained by melting down the sacred treasure at Delphi, and writings suggest that this coinage was treated as such during that time.

Phokis coinage that clearly comes well before and well after the war is fine, but I won't pursue any Phokis coins that even have a possibility of coming from this period. If by some strange fate a person were to "reverse mug" me in the street and force several of these coins in my hand, the only recourse would be to return them to the museum at Delphi, ideally in person to ensure they arrive.

On a non-numismatic note, my mother is forbidden from watching Duke basketball games because every time she does they lose.

Other than those superstitions, I'm fairly normal. 🙂 

[CPK]

No superstitions here. Like @expat I don't consider any period of numismatic history "off-limits" for collecting. I have a number of coins from the USSR, which was at least as hideous a regime as the Third Reich. It's sobering to hold such a coin, read the worn-out slogans, and recall the evil and suffering it brought to so many people - and also the strength and courage of those who resisted and overcame. That, for me anyway, is the main point in collecting such coins - they are historical reminders.

I also don't like posting a coin before I receive it, but that is only because I prefer to use my own pictures and descriptions. Also, I like to be able to examine the coin personally before publicly posting, in case there is a problem with it that necessitates a return. One coin (which I still haven't posted) arrived with spots of very aggressive bronze disease that most certainly were not there in the seller's photo. I managed to defeat the corrosion on round two of treatment, but it's still not quite ready yet for publication. 🙂 

[seth77]

I keep clear of all and any items that have nazi symbols.

[AncientCoinnoisseur]

O avoid bragging about a coin until it gets home safely. Only when I have it in my hands I info-dump you guys with posts, infographics and stuff! (Like I just did with my Lighthouse of Alexandria, and I’m not even done!)  

Now I’m curious about coins mentioned by @kirispupis, how would they look like / what years exactly are we talking about? Do you have any pics?

[Croatian Coin Collector]

I don't have any numismatic superstitions, as for coins I avoid, they are plenty, those of communist countries, of Elizabeth II and the Windsors in general, those ugly commemorative coins the various Pacific countries issue, Saudi Arabian coins, 21st century Croatian coinage, etc. 

[JAZ Numismatics]

6 minutes ago, Croatian Coin Collector said:

I don't have any numismatic superstitions, as for coins I avoid, they are plenty, those of communist countries, of Elizabeth II and the Windsors in general, those ugly commemorative coins the various Pacific countries issue, Saudi Arabian coins, 21st century Croatian coinage, etc. 

Communist Poland issued some beautiful large coins throughout the 60s and 70s, that even included coins commemorating famous Polish kings. I don't know how they got away with that. I will post a thread about them later tonight when I get home.

[Deinomenid]

30 minutes ago, AncientCoinnoisseur said:

Now I’m curious about coins mentioned by @kirispupis, how would they look like / what years exactly are we talking about? Do you have any pics?

On the basis  Kirispupis doesn't have any, here's one. I'm still alive  🤫

Phokis, Federal Coinage AR Triobol. Third Sacred War issue. Struck under Onymarchos, 354-352 BC. Bull's head facing / Laureate head of Apollo to right, kithara behind, Φ-Ω across lower fields.

[DonnaML]

17 minutes ago, Croatian Coin Collector said:

I don't have any numismatic superstitions, as for coins I avoid, they are plenty, those of communist countries, of Elizabeth II and the Windsors in general, those ugly commemorative coins the various Pacific countries issue, Saudi Arabian coins, 21st century Croatian coinage, etc. 

What do you have against the late lamented Liz?

[DonnaML]

Like many of us, I superstitiously avoid posting photos of coins I've bought before they actually arrived.

The rest aren't superstitions -- I just don't like the idea of owning the following (among others):

Coins depicting Hitler and/or Nazi symbols

Coins issued by Hitler's allies and collaborators, e.g. Vichy France, Mussolini's Italy, Croatia under Ante Pavelić, etc.

I don't know if Soviet coins depicted Stalin when he was in power, but if they did I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to buy one

Roman "Judaea Capta" coins

Coins depicting or directly implying the rape or murder of women, e.g. the two famous coins of L. Titurius Sabinus referencing the rape of the Sabine women and the burial of Tarpeia.

Arguing with me about my feelings won't change my mind, so please don't bother!

 

Edited November 7, 2024 by DonnaML

[AncientCoinnoisseur]

@Deinomenid Thanks for the pic! They are actually very pretty, I’m almost tempted to get one just for the ‘aura’ of the coin per se!

[John Conduitt]

I don't have any superstitions. It's impossible to draw lines between atrocities committed throughout history to all sorts of people. That doesn't mean I buy coins of the 3rd Reich or the rape of the Sabine women since I would at least need to be motivated to buy such a coin, which I'm not.
 

5 hours ago, expat said:

Just because either a left or right facing swastika is shown on on a Greek coin from more the 2000 years ago, some people refuse to buy one. Why? It had nothing to do with its use a couple of millennia later.

This is a good point. Anything the Nazis used (or, indeed, stole) is blacklisted, even though all that does is ensure the association continues for longer than it otherwise would. So it is with Charlie Chaplin moustaches, the name Adolf and the salute, which may even have been Roman, and was certainly used in the US pledge of allegiance from the 1890s until the Nazis copied it. Yet for some reason the VW Beetle is much loved, becoming the subject of American children's films, even though it was conceived by Hitler.
 

1 hour ago, Croatian Coin Collector said:

Elizabeth II and the Windsors in general

That is very specific. George V, George VI, Elizabeth II and Charles III. Perhaps you will like something from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

Edward VII Halfpenny, 1905

Bronze, 25mm, 5.5g. Head 1; EDWARDVS VII DEI GRA BRITT OMN REX FID DEF IND IMP. Britannia seated with shield holding trident, facing right; HALF PENNY, 1905 (S 3991-1905).
 

39 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

I don't know if Soviet coins depicted Stalin when he was in power, but if they did I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to buy one

They do not. This is a typical coin from his time (and turns out to be the year of his death!). It was the same style in 1924 (the year of Lenin's death) and 1991 (the year of the Soviet Union's death). People had a lot of these in their change pots when I went there in the 1990s, including my Russian teacher, whose name was Adolf (born in the 1920s). The same is true of Russian coinage, which has now been sullied by Putin but hasn't been changed to depict him - yet.

[seth77]

Stalin did appear on the 50 and 100 Czechoslovakian Korun coins of 1949.

[ambr0zie]

The only superstition I have was "discovered" long before starting to collect ancient coins. 

On my first (and last) ebay purchase, I found a scarce modern coin that was a big target. It was a solid VF, with a perfect patina and a decent price. 

I bragged about it to some friends, only to find out after a few days that the seller can't find it anymore and got a refund 😐

Funny enough, the same thing happened a few months after this, another modern coin from the same period, from a local site similar to ebay. Same story. But this annoyed me badly and I just mentioned to the seller that I will make this story very popular. He gave me another coin (same type) in a similar condition. 

No more bragging for me, although once or twice I told some forum colleagues about fresh purchases right after the auction. Now I realize this habit should stop. Of course these were bad coincidences, but I think sometimes we attract good/bad things with our minds. 

I do not have any superstitions about coin types. I do not like violence but still, some or my favorite coins depict violence or other inappropriate acts. For me, these are separate items - agreeing/disagreeing with an action or a belief and refusing a coin with it. 

Edited November 7, 2024 by ambr0zie

[Hrefn]

I certainly would not argue that collectors who wish to avoid certain coins are somehow wrong.  We are emotional creatures, every bit as much as we are rational ones.  I am not even sure collecting coins is a rational activity.  Certainly, it would be a very unusual person who collected coins on a purely rational basis;  we all purchase what we like, not what some syllogism proves we should buy.  It is completely understandable that a collector might avoid Nazi imagery on coins, for example.

However, there is hardly a coin in our cabinets which is not dipped in blood, figuratively speaking.   

Here are 4 examples from my own collection.

The first is a well know type of Julius Caesar.  In his conquest of Gaul, his memoirs record that he massacred an enormous number of men, women and children in retaliatory or punitive actions.  It is estimated he enslaved a million Gauls.   

The second is a dinar of al-Mansur minted in Iraq, AH 157 = AD 774. Kalima in three lines; Qur'an IX, 33 in outer margin / Continuation of kalima in three lines; date formula in outer margin. Album 212; Bernardi 51. 4.27g, 19mm, 5h.  Al-Mansur founded the city of Baghdad, and established the Abbasid dynasty.   When the last of the Umayyad forces surrendered to him after a promise of safe conduct, he treacherously had them slain.  He executed his uncle, the general who helped him rise to power, and numerous rivals.  His greed at the division of spoils caused at least one rebellion.   

The third coin is of Basil II, nicknamed Bulgaroctonos or the Bulgar slayer.  Having crushed the Bulgarians, Basil exacted his vengeance cruelly—he was said to have captured 15,000 prisoners and fully blinded 99 of every 100 men, leaving one one-eyed man in each cohort to lead the rest back to their ruler.  The Bulgarian ruler Samuel reportedly died of shock and grief.

The fourth coin is of Timur, perhaps better known as Tamerlane.   Of his cruelty, or his body count, we shall not speak.  

The sad truth is that there are numerous tyrants in history who could rival the evils committed by more contemporary malefactors, although Mao, Stalin, and Hitler do lend the twentieth century a certain unwanted distinction in numbers of deaths, facilitated by their access to the resources of modern nation-states.  The coins they have left behind are historical documents as well as stores of wealth and a medium of exchange.  Everyone must decide for him- or herself whether the blood and smoke which lingers around them supersedes their value as bits of history.  And even if one acknowledges the historical value, that doesn’t obligate one to collect them in defiance of one’s feelings.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[El Cazador]

56 minutes ago, Hrefn said:

I certainly would not argue that collectors who wish to avoid certain coins are somehow wrong.  We are emotional creatures, every bit as much as we are rational ones.  I am not even sure collecting coins is a rational activity.  Certainly, it would be a very unusual person who collected coins on a purely rational basis;  we all purchase what we like, not what some syllogism proves we should buy.  It is completely understandable that a collector might avoid Nazi imagery on coins, for example.

However, there is hardly a coin in our cabinets which is not dipped in blood, figuratively speaking.   

Here are 4 examples from my own collection.

The first is a well know type of Julius Caesar.  In his conquest of Gaul, his memoirs record that he massacred an enormous number of men, women and children in retaliatory or punitive actions.  It is estimated he enslaved a million Gauls.   

The second is a dinar of al-Mansur minted in Iraq, AH 157 = AD 774. Kalima in three lines; Qur'an IX, 33 in outer margin / Continuation of kalima in three lines; date formula in outer margin. Album 212; Bernardi 51. 4.27g, 19mm, 5h.  Al-Mansur founded the city of Baghdad, and established the Abbasid dynasty.   When the last of the Umayyad forces surrendered to him after a promise of safe conduct, he treacherously had them slain.  He executed his uncle, the general who helped him rise to power, and numerous rivals.  His greed at the division of spoils caused at least one rebellion.   

The third coin is of Basil II, nicknamed Bulgaroctonos or the Bulgar slayer.  Having crushed the Bulgarians, Basil exacted his vengeance cruelly—he was said to have captured 15,000 prisoners and fully blinded 99 of every 100 men, leaving one one-eyed man in each cohort to lead the rest back to their ruler.  The Bulgarian ruler Samuel reportedly died of shock and grief.

The fourth coin is of Timur, perhaps better known as Tamerlane.   Of his cruelty, or his body count, we shall not speak.  

The sad truth is that there are numerous tyrants in history who could rival the evils committed by more contemporary malefactors, although Mao, Stalin, and Hitler do lend the twentieth century a certain unwanted distinction in numbers of deaths, facilitated by their access to the resources of modern nation-states.  The coins they have left behind are historical documents as well as stores of wealth and a medium of exchange.  Everyone must decide for him- or herself whether the blood and smoke which lingers around them supersedes their value as bits of history.  And even if one acknowledges the historical value, that doesn’t obligate one to collect them in defiance of one’s feelings.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great coins - Caesar in particular. But did you stumble upon gold coins of Tamerlane? - would love to own one someday 

[Hrefn]

3 hours ago, El Cazador said:

Great coins - Caesar in particular. But did you stumble upon gold coins of Tamerlane? - would love to own one someday 

Sadly, that coin is silver.   And they tend to be carelessly struck, as well.  

[sand]

I don't post a coin, until it is in my hands. Not because of superstition. I just hate the thought of posting a coin, and everyone thinks I have it, and then I don't have it.

I'm not a superstitious person in general. I do have a few minor fears, learned in childhood, which I would call "fears of highly improbable things", which I sometimes allow to affect my behavior, or which sometimes give me an uneasy feeling. Fear of looking at a mirror in a dark room. Fear of allowing my feet to hang off of the edge of the bed, unless my feet are covered by a blanket. Fear of my ventriloquist dummy (I still have the dummy, go figure). Fear of moths and butterflies. Fear of deep water. Et cetera. Some persons would call those fears "superstitions".

But for coins, I can't think of any superstitions, that I have. I have various fears, such as fear of my coins being stolen, fear of ordering coins from outside of the USA (I live in the USA), fear of dropping a coin, fear of putting coins in any sort of plastic, fear of the government banning the collecting of ancient coins, etc. But no superstitions.

Edited November 8, 2024 by sand

[JAZ Numismatics]

3 hours ago, sand said:

I don't post a coin, until it is in my hands. Not because of superstition. I just hate the thought of posting a coin, and everyone thinks I have it, and then I don't have it.

I'm not a superstitious person in general. I do have a few minor fears, learned in childhood, which I would call "fears of highly improbable things", which I sometimes allow to affect my behavior, or which sometimes give me an uneasy feeling. Fear of looking at a mirror in a dark room. Fear of allowing my feet to hang off of the edge of the bed, unless my feet are covered by a blanket. Fear of my ventriloquist dummy (I still have the dummy, go figure). Fear of moths and butterflies. Fear of deep water. Et cetera. Some persons would call those fears "superstitions".

But for coins, I can't think of any superstitions, that I have. I have various fears, such as fear of my coins being stolen, fear of ordering coins from outside of the USA (I live in the USA), fear of dropping a coin, fear of putting coins in any sort of plastic, fear of the government banning the collecting of ancient coins, etc. But no superstitions.

You can't get rid of the ventriloquist dummy. He'll come back, and that's when the evil shit starts happening.

[DonnaML]

26 minutes ago, JAZ Numismatics said:

You can't get rid of the ventriloquist dummy. He'll come back, and that's when the evil shit starts happening.

Somebody's been watching the "Dead of Night" segment with Michael Redgrave playing an insane ventriloquist named Maxwell who has an evil dummy named Hugo.

[seth77]

I am not superstitious because it is bad luck to be superstitious.

[Rosa Potatos]

dead of night? what a great movie- saw it when little and it's haunted me since!

[David Atherton]

The only superstition I have is not posting new purchases until they are in hand ... and perhaps that's not superstitious, but practical!