Any luck in Leu 16?

[Mucius Scaevola]

I won my 3 targets, rest I oberserved but there was nothing where I would stress my budget out.

I got the following coins:

Hadrian Denarius

Hadrian, 117-138. Denarius (Silver, 20 mm, 3.35 g, 6 h), Rome, 128-circa 129. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P Laureate head of Hadrian to right. Rev. COS III Large crescent; above, six-pointed star. BMC -, cf. 512 (differing bust type). Cohen 458. RIC 924. A very attractive piece with beautiful iridescent toning and an excellent portrait. The obverse a bit weak, otherwise, extremely fine.

 

• Leu Auction 16, 172 - 700 CHF
• Tradart 21, 15 February 2018, 127 - 900€
• Lanz 38, 24 November 1986, 675

 

Domitian Dupondius

Domitian, as Caesar, 69-81. Dupondius (Orichalcum, 28 mm, 13.08 g, 6 h), Rome, 80-81. CAES DIVI VESP F DOMITIANVS COS VII Laureate head of Domitian to right. Rev. CONCORDIA AVG / S C Concordia seated left, holding patera in her right hand and cornucopiae in her left. BMC 238. CBN -. Cohen 39. RIC 335. Some smoothing and minor weakness on the reverse, otherwise, good very fine.

 

• Leu 16, 19 October 2024, 168 700 CHF
• Leu 13, 27 May 2023, 267 600 CHF
• From the Aes Augustorum Collection, formed since the late 1990s

 

And this mainly because of the nice provenance:

Diadumenian As

Diadumenian, as Caesar, 217-218. As (Copper, 24 mm, 10.00 g, 12 h), Rome, summer 217-early 218. M OPEL ANTONINVS DIADVMENIANVS CAES Bare-headed and draped bust of Diadumenian to right. Rev. PRINC IVVENTVTIS / S - C Diadumenian standing front in military attire, head to right, holding aquila in his right hand and scepter in his left; to right, two signa. BMC 159. Clay issue 2. Cohen 9. RIC 212. Rare and with an excellent pedigree. Minor smoothing and the reverse a bit weak, otherwise, good very fine.

 

• Leu Auction 16, 19.10.2024, 182 - 1100 CHF
• From the collection of Dipl.-Ing. Adrian Lang, Leu 12, 15 May 2022, 1296
• Gorny & Mosch 232, 2015, 462 1300€
• From the collections of C. Gollnow, Numismatica Ars Classica 80, 20 October 2014, 143
• "Friend of the Romans" (also C. Gollnow), Münzen & Medaillen 92, 22 November 2002, 151
• Schweizerische Kreditanstalt 7, 27-29 April 1987, 922
• Numismatic Fine Arts XIV, 29 November 1984, 504
• From the collection of Vicomte Louis de Sartiges, Ars Classica XVIII, 10 October 1938, 366

 

 

Did you win something? I thought that this time there were not that many roman coins present.

[Qcumbor]

Congrats.

Nothing here. The few I had pre-selected were out of my league before the auction actually started 

Q

[Mucius Scaevola]

Thanks. Agree, some reached quite crazy prices. My favourite was the Nero dupondius, but out of my league.

Edited October 19, 2024 by Mucius Scaevola

[Theoderic]

There wasn't much within my budget that caught my attention, and the 28% buyer fee (for this one sale only) was a real turn off.

[Mucius Scaevola]

11 minutes ago, Theoderic said:

There wasn't much within my budget that caught my attention, and the 28% buyer fee (for this one sale only) was a real turn off.

28%? 

[tatev]

The Leu buyer fee was 22,5%. Perhaps you are confusing this with the Nomos  auction, where it was 28%.

[Phil Davis]

35 minutes ago, Mucius Scaevola said:

28%? 

I think that's Nomos, not Leu.

[Mucius Scaevola]

Leu has 22,5% buyer‘s premium plus 2% for livebidding. It‘s more or less the usual fee for bigger auctions.

[JAZ Numismatics]

Exceptional busts on all three coins. Well done!

[Salomons Cat]

Incidentally, today’s auction was held on biddr, and it seems to me that the accusations made here earlier were unfounded, though I doubt they influenced the decision.

However, congratulations, @Mucius Scaevola! Beautiful coins. I also won the coin that I wanted to have 😊


Julius Caesar, 49-44 BC. Denarius (Silver, 19 mm, 3.86 g), military mint moving with Caesar in Spain, 46-45. Diademed head of Venus to right; behind, cupid. Rev. CAESAR Trophy of Gallic arms; at base to left, draped female captive seated to left, in mourning attitude; at base to right, bearded Gaulish captive seated to right, his head turned back toward trophy. Babelon (Julia) 11. Crawford 468/1. CRI 58. RBW 1639. Sydenham 1014. Beautifully toned and with a spectacular and perfectly centered reverse. Struck from a slightly worn obverse die, otherwise, nearly extremely fine.

[Mucius Scaevola]

@JAZ Numismatics thanks, that was why I chose them 😎

 

@Salomons Cat beautiful! Congrats!

[Croatian Coin Collector]

I don't take part in their auctions anymore.

[Mucius Scaevola]

7 minutes ago, Croatian Coin Collector said:

I don't take part in their auctions anymore.

Well, that‘s very informative. Maybe you also want to explain?😎

[Mucius Scaevola]

1 hour ago, Salomons Cat said:

Incidentally, today’s auction was held on biddr, and it seems to me that the accusations made here earlier were unfounded, though I doubt they influenced the decision.
 

What actually happened? Did I miss a post?

[Qcumbor]

1 hour ago, Salomons Cat said:

Julius Caesar, 49-44 BC. Denarius (Silver, 19 mm, 3.86 g), military mint moving with Caesar in Spain, 46-45. Diademed head of Venus to right; behind, cupid. Rev. CAESAR Trophy of Gallic arms; at base to left, draped female captive seated to left, in mourning attitude; at base to right, bearded Gaulish captive seated to right, his head turned back toward trophy. Babelon (Julia) 11. Crawford 468/1. CRI 58. RBW 1639. Sydenham 1014. Beautifully toned and with a spectacular and perfectly centered reverse. Struck from a slightly worn obverse die, otherwise, nearly extremely fine.

Beautiful !

that one was on my short list. Glad it found a good home.

Q

[Salomons Cat]

2 minutes ago, Mucius Scaevola said:

What actually happened? Did I miss a post?

Yep, apparently. Many people here have speculated about why it’s so rare to win anything at Leu significantly below your maximum bid, and they accused Leu of unethical practices like shill bidding. There has never been any evidence or clear indication to support this. For me, it went a bit too far to make such claims so publicly, as was done here, here, or here. Although I understand that people wanted to make sense of the situation.
However, since this auction took place on biddr, it seems rather difficult to make the same accusations again.

[Salomons Cat]

2 minutes ago, Qcumbor said:

Beautiful !

that one was on my short list. Glad it found a good home.

Q

Thank you! And also thank you for not bidding it up 😀
It was the only one I wanted, and I still can’t quite believe it worked out. I feel like I've been a bit lucky in auctions lately.

[Croatian Coin Collector]

6 minutes ago, Mucius Scaevola said:

Well, that‘s very informative. Maybe you also want to explain?😎

Well, they are an auction house that insists on (as panzerman put so well) working for customs, and here in Croatia that means I would have to pay an additional 25% VAT of top of whatever I pay Leu and another 50 EUR or so in "customs fees", so I have decided that I won't bid in their auctions anymore, I will only bid in the auctions of EU auction houses and the few non-EU ones with common sense.

[Mucius Scaevola]

Got it. Yes, I agree that with many auction houses I had this feeling. But unless I can prove it, I don‘t yell it out in public. 
 

as Roma is not existing anymore, I‘ll make an exception 😎 I really liked their auctions, but it was the worst when it came to maxing out my pre-bids. It taught me to bid live. I remember that I asked Richard B. about it and he got quite mad at me.

 

for the rest, might have been bad luck.

[Mucius Scaevola]

14 minutes ago, Croatian Coin Collector said:

Well, they are an auction house that insists on (as panzerman put so well) working for customs, and here in Croatia that means I would have to pay an additional 25% VAT of top of whatever I pay Leu and another 50 EUR or so in "customs fees", so I have decided that I won't bid in their auctions anymore, I will only bid in the auctions of EU auction houses and the few non-EU ones with common sense.

Working for customs? What do you want them to do? Send you the coins as a „gift“ and risk legal charges?

why do you have 25% VAT in Croatia? We have 8% in Luxembourg for ancient collectibles. Germany has what? 7%? Why is it so high in Croatia?

Edited October 19, 2024 by Mucius Scaevola

[Salomons Cat]

1 minute ago, Mucius Scaevola said:

Got it. Yes, I agree that with many auction houses I had this feeling. But unless I can prove it, I don‘t yell it out in public. 
 

as Roma is not existing anymore, I‘ll make an exception 😎 I really liked their auctions, but it was the worst when it came to maxing out my pre-bids. It taught me to bid live. I remember that I asked Richard B. about it and he got quite mad at me.

 

for the rest, might have been bad luck.

No, how could you do that?! Of course he got mad; Roma was such an honest auction house 😄
Anyway - I don't know if I'm just naive to believe that most people are honest.

[Mucius Scaevola]

It‘s not the worst to have, it helps you to stay calm😂 I‘m the opposite, I assume that people try to rip me off

[Croatian Coin Collector]

21 hours ago, Mucius Scaevola said:

Working for customs? What do you want them to do? Send you the coins as a „gift“ and risk legal charges?

why do you have 25% VAT in Croatia? We have 8% in Luxembourg for ancient collectibles. Germany has what? 8%? Why is it so high in Croatia?

They don't risk anything, and no, I don't expect them to send it as a "gift", I expect them to take a car ride across the border to Germany and ship it from there like SINCONA does (SINCONA does charge 5% for this, but that is still way better than paying 25% VAT + 50+ EUR  in customs fees to the communist moochers here).

Because the communists never left power here, they pretend to be "christian democrats" and "social democrats" nowadays, but the country is still run by those who ran it before the Berlin Wall fell, the government here takes around 3/4 of what I earn each year through direct and indirect taxes, and I have zero intention of needlessly giving them any more of my money, so I will avoid the auctions of those who want my money to be spent on financing the communist moochers here rather than on the coins at their auctions.   

Edited October 20, 2024 by Croatian Coin Collector

[Deinomenid]

27 minutes ago, Salomons Cat said:

However, since this auction took place on biddr, it seems rather difficult to make the same accusations again.

For what it’s worth, I prebid directly with them as you still could, not through biddr, partly to avoid the extra bidder fees (false economy) and partly as I was at work this am. Not shockingly, my successes were all at my max.

The coincidences continue… 

[Mucius Scaevola]

14 minutes ago, Croatian Coin Collector said:

They don't risk anything, and no, I don't expect them to sent it as a "gift", I expect them to take a car ride across the border to Germany and ship it from there like SINCONA does (SINCONA does charge 5% for this, but that is still way better than paying 25% VAT + 50+ EUR  in customs fees to the communist moochers here).

Because the communists never left power here, they pretend to be "christian democrats" and "social democrats" nowadays, but the country is still run by those who ran it before the Berlin Wall fell, the government here takes around 3/4 of what I earn each year through direct and indirect taxes, and I have zero intention of needlessly giving them any more of my money, so I will avoid the auctions of those who want my money to be spent on financing the communist moochers here rather than on the coins at their auctions.   

That was more detailed than I expected. Leu doesn't get anything from your customs or my customs. They just simplify their processes, that's it. They don't do it to feed the "communists" or what ever. I smell a lot of anger here, but this isn't Leu's fault.

I understand your anger towards the taxes, but not towards Leu. Smaller auction houses can easier organise this and might even need to do this, to attract more bidders.

Edited October 19, 2024 by Mucius Scaevola