Would like some opinions on a lysimachos tetradrachm

[CassiusMarcus]

Hi all,

Just curious what you think would cause these little 'cuts' around the edge here? I am not even quite sure what to call them actually. 

As I have not seen this before, it does not appear to be flow lines to me. (Could be wrong)

Let me know what you think / any cause for concern 

Thanks, hope everyone is having a great weekend! 

[Theodosius]

Looks a lot like cleaning marks. 

I agree that they don't look like flow lines, those would be a positive feature above the surface of the coin and these appear to be scratches cut into the face of the coin. 

I don't think I've ever seen that before either.

John

[sand]

Those lines seem strange to me. They don't look like cleaning marks, because they are too deep, and too regular. I searched ACsearch as follows : lysimachos tetradrachm

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=lysimachos+tetradrachm&category=1-2&lot=&date_from=&date_to=&thesaurus=1&images=1&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&currency=usd&order=0 

I looked at the first 300 examples. I didn't see any examples, which had such lines. The lines look sort of like, they have been carved, after the coin was minted. Why anyone would do that, I don't know.

You can look at more of the examples, but you have to register with your email address, to see the large, high resolution photos.

Can you post a photo of the reverse, and the maximum diameter of the coin, and the weight of the coin?

I don't have much knowledge, of Lysimachos tetradrachms. But, there are other Nvmis Forvms members, who have plenty of knowledge of Lysimachos tetradrachms. Perhaps those Nvmis Forvms members will see this thread, and provide their thoughts. It may take a few days.

[CassiusMarcus]

2 minutes ago, sand said:

Those lines seem strange to me. They don't look like cleaning marks, because they are too deep, and too regular. I searched ACsearch as follows : lysimachos tetradrachm

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=lysimachos+tetradrachm&category=1-2&lot=&date_from=&date_to=&thesaurus=1&images=1&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&currency=usd&order=0 

I looked at the first 300 examples. I didn't see any examples, which had such lines. The lines look sort of like, they have been carved, after the coin was minted. Why anyone would do that, I don't know.

You can look at more of the examples, but you have to register with your email address, to see the large, high resolution photos.

Can you post a photo of the reverse, and the maximum diameter of the coin, and the weight of the coin?

I don't have much knowledge, of Lysimachos tetradrachms. But, there are other Nvmis Forvms members, who have plenty of knowledge of Lysimachos tetradrachms. Perhaps those Nvmis Forvms members will see this thread, and provide their thoughts. It may take a few days.

Thank you very much for the response! 

I will just link to the LOT for others, but here is an image as well. https://leunumismatik.com/en/lot/53/54

KINGS OF THRACE. Lysimachos, 305-281 BC. Tetradrachm (Silver, 31 mm, 17.36 g, 12 h), Lampsakos, circa  

LEU has to say about this is as follows: 
*An interesting detail about this coin is that the beaded border on the obverse creates the illusion of a radiate border, similar to the incuse coins from Magna Graecia of the 6th and early 5th centuries BC.*

But I agree, if it was done in ancient times, why would a mint worker or a soldier, or anyone for that matter bother doing something like that? As it does not seem natural to occur during the strike. And if it was, then I have never seen such a thing before as mentioned earlier. 

I look forward to other Lysimachos enthusiasts to weigh in on what may have happened here. FWIW I do believe the coin is genuine. 

[CPK]

I think it's a striking anomaly, not carving or engraving done afterwards. I've seen that sort of smeared border before on ancients, although admittedly not quite that extreme.

Here's an obverse die match, for what it's worth. This coin also shows some smeared/missing border dots:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7852803

[sand]

5 hours ago, CPK said:

I think it's a striking anomaly, not carving or engraving done afterwards. I've seen that sort of smeared border before on ancients, although admittedly not quite that extreme.

Yes. That may be. Now that I look at the coin more carefully, especially in the larger photo in @CassiusMarcus's 2nd post, I see your point. Where dots are present, the lines seem to be perfectly aligned with the edges of the dots, too perfectly to have been carved by hand. Perhaps the enormous pressure exerted on the (possibly hot) metal, when the flan was struck between the dies, combined with the holes in the obverse die where the dots were supposed to be, caused these lines, similar to flow lines.

Edited September 30, 2024 by sand

[robinjojo]

I was thinking at first that they were flow lines from the striking process, but on closer inspection they seem to be part of the die.  The obverse beading is very irregular, but that is likely poor engraving of the beaded border

[NewStyleKing]

why not ask a grading company who has an expert for his opinion ? Someone like David Sear? That will be the only way, no one on here will satisfy!

[Theodosius]

The lines directly under the portrait look cut into the coin after it was struck. Look how sharp the edges of the cuts are, don't see how marks like that could have been struck. Remember, to make indented marks on the face of the coin the rest of the field would have to be planed down so the marks would protrude from the face of the die. That would be a lot of work when preparing the die.

John

Edited October 2, 2024 by Theodosius
Tried to clarify wording

[NewStyleKing]

It looks at some point it's been through a milling machine! I've never seen anything like it and from that alone, without Sear or Vagi I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole! It's very strange!

[CassiusMarcus]

Thanks, everyone, 

I feel like there's more questions than answers haha! 
I do not know how to get in touch with those experts @NewStyleKing so I will likely just pass on this coin TBH 

[NewStyleKing]

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