Deinomenid Posted September 4 · Supporter Share Posted September 4 I have a reprint in Italian but he constantly switches between Greek, Latin and Italian, with smatterings of German and French. I understand a decent amount in each of these (enough to be dangerously incompetent), but especially as he's quite err flowery, it's exhausting. The book is magnificent in approach, so I don't want to be missing stuff. On the Italian wikipedia site for him it says the original was published in both English and Italian after WWII, but I can't find any sign of the former. La stesura occupò Rizzo per anni, in quanto dovette classificare circa mille e cinquecento calchi e selezionarli per la composizione delle Tavole: la versione integrale (anticipata da Saggi preliminari sull'arte della moneta greca in Sicilia, da Intermezzo di nuovi studi sull'arte della moneta greca e da Siciliae veteres nummi, venne pubblicata solo nel 1946, sia in lingua italiana che in lingua inglese. I even started taking scans of pages to autotranslate but that's no fun and translation sites I know will only translate 1 language into 1 other, not sometimes 5 languages into 1. Many thanks for any help! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisimo Posted September 5 · Supporter Share Posted September 5 I just looked in my files and it seems I only have a pdf of the plates. I’ve never attempted to read the text. Though I have gone through the process of translating primary sources in the past. Most recently F. Herrmann’s reference on the coins of Larissa. …you’re right, it was a slog. Hopefully someone else will be able to help out. I’d like to have it for my digital library as well if it exists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted September 5 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 5 12 hours ago, Curtisimo said: slog. The worst slog for me was years ago translating Erich Boehringer's opus Die Munzen von Syrakus, where you almost sense his frustration at getting through all 700 plus coins, especially the endless series of mass production in the middle, Group III! Just as my sanity began to slip away I got to the afterword, and thought to just grind through it, only to find one of the most uplifting passages I've read on coins, where he asks, after all this, who were the women, shown in such variety of feature over such a length of time, on all these coins. His suggestion - that we were witness to a 100 year visual "catalogue of the priestesses of Artemis in Syracuse" - restored my mind! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennos Posted September 7 · Member Share Posted September 7 I've never heard of an English translation of Rizzo's book. Denis J. Kroh in his book “Ancient coin reference reviews” doesn't mention it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulla80 Posted September 7 · Supporter Share Posted September 7 worth noting that ChatGPT (and other similar LLMs - Large Language Models) are making it easier every day to read texts in languages you cannot read: It can be a little off in what it recognizes as non-Italian text and still fun/useful to play with : The so-called "«nuovo metodo»" (new method) - those monographers who in recent years have given us a few brief essays on what should be the great "«Corpus delle monete siceliote»" (Corpus of Sicilian coins): that is, the collection and publication of all coins and all existing specimens in all collections, both public and private. An undertaking that already seemed extremely difficult, was announced and failed before it even began, and today appears ever more "«chimerica»" (chimerical). "«Vestirla terreni!»" (Clothe it in reality!). You can also experiment with "simplifying flowery language": not perfect - but slog is reduced - and a space where lots of investment is making these tools more powerful every day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted September 7 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 7 @Sulla80 thank you so much! I've been using chatgpt recently as it was way better with ol' Rizzo's eccentricities than the other translators but was still getting stuck on the variety of languages. Your suggestion about adding "with any language that is not Italian etc" is fantastic! Hugely appreciated, as I had no idea I could do that. (I'm not sure I'll ask it to remove the flowery language and endless diatribes against GF Hill as they make it more fun!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulla80 Posted September 7 · Supporter Share Posted September 7 45 minutes ago, Deinomenid said: @Sulla80 thank you so much! I've been using chatgpt recently as it was way better with ol' Rizzo's eccentricities than the other translators but was still getting stuck on the variety of languages. Your suggestion about adding "with any language that is not Italian etc" is fantastic! Hugely appreciated, as I had no idea I could do that. (I'm not sure I'll ask it to remove the flowery language and endless diatribes against GF Hill as they make it more fun!) LOL on the GF Hill rants. A general "prompt engineering" tip: be a descriptive as possible - providing context means that it is less likely to make errors (which are often caused by ambiguity). If you haven't found "Customize ChatGPT" (top right - click your colored dot) - this allows you to provide some default guidance that improves response as well: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelouch Posted September 7 · Member Share Posted September 7 On 9/5/2024 at 2:08 PM, Deinomenid said: The worst slog for me was years ago translating Erich Boehringer's opus Die Munzen von Syrakus, where you almost sense his frustration at getting through all 700 plus coins, especially the endless series of mass production in the middle, Group III! Just as my sanity began to slip away I got to the afterword, and thought to just grind through it, only to find one of the most uplifting passages I've read on coins, where he asks, after all this, who were the women, shown in such variety of feature over such a length of time, on all these coins. His suggestion - that we were witness to a 100 year visual "catalogue of the priestesses of Artemis in Syracuse" - restored my mind! This sounds interesting, what coins were Boehringer referring? I've generally seen just Arethusa on coins from Syracuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted September 7 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 7 @Lelouch he didn't specifically say, but the inference was that the reverses (with a handful of exceptions) in general used a priestess of Artemis across the life of the study, which is approximately 100 years. The study was of the tetradrachms, didrachms and some smaller change. Who knows if it is right, but it was uplifting! "It must have been the case that certain women were designated by the state who had to be depicted by the artists on the coins. The only question is where and how these women were determined. We cannot suppose that the selection was made in an agon of beauty that we know for boys and men, for few of these faces are beautiful. Nor can it be assumed that the governing personalities arbitrarily designated women, even if they must have had a certain influence....... especially because the priest not only represents and "depicts" his god, but is usually identified with him, for which we have innumerable proofs from antiquity. If we assume this, we have on in our tables [of coins in his book] not only a list of coins, but also a catalogue of the Priestesses of Artemis of Syracuse." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelouch Posted September 7 · Member Share Posted September 7 @Deinomenid It does indeed sound very nice. Just curious, do you know if Boehringer ever mentioned Arethusa? Tried to find a pdf of it now, could find the die couplings which I remember looking at since I before since I have a bunch of Syracuse octopus coins, but not the actual pdf. But all of the coins, especially tetradrachams, from Syracuse I have seen identify themselves as Arethusa. Die Münzen von Syrakus was in 1929. There is also Calciati, R. Corpus Nummorum Siculorum. The Bronze Coinage which is 1983 - 1987, and even he seems to have been hesistant to identify them as Arethusa as can be seen in this link. But now it seems like everyone is confidently saying that the tets, didrachams, and bronzes are all Arethusa. I wonder if there is some other evidence that caused that. Somewhat related, I also remember reading this tetradracham lot https://nomosag.com/nomos-32-33/365 where it talks about "it has been suggested that the two different heads on Kimon's dekadrachms are actually portraits of those two wives [of Dionysios I]". Arethusa is a follower of Artemis, it definitely could be that some of the other ones are based on Priestesses of Artemis of Syracuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennos Posted September 7 · Member Share Posted September 7 22 minutes ago, Lelouch said: But now it seems like everyone is confidently saying that the tets, didrachams, and bronzes are all Arethusa. I wonder if there is some other evidence that caused that. The name APEΘOΣA appears on this die by Kimon. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted September 7 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 7 10 minutes ago, Lelouch said: if Boehringer ever mentioned Arethusa? Yes, often. 10 minutes ago, Lelouch said: Tried to find a pdf of it now Freely available online. Academia etc is a good place to look. There are 3 parts, in case you download the "wrong" one. 11 minutes ago, Lelouch said: from Syracuse I have seen identify themselves as Arethusa. The point being made in the afterword isn't who it represents, but who the actual image is of. Sorry if you meant the deity behind the image! If so there are endless debates about this, and the answer likely lies in a mixture, though Arethusa is the current bookies' favourite. The below coin - very sadly not mine -is marked as Arethusa too, though this encourages some to think as she is named as such then that's to distinguish from others that were not. Arguments can get a little circular here. 🙂 Kore, Cyane, etc are also mentioned, as is the possibility Arethusa was seen as Artemis-Arethusa. 29 minutes ago, Lelouch said: it has been suggested that the two different heads on Kimon's dekadrachms are actually portraits of those two wives [of Dionysios I] No comment on Kimon showing Doris and Andromache! 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted September 7 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 7 Nice coin @Brennos! 🙂 Double post of image, sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelouch Posted September 7 · Member Share Posted September 7 Thank you both @Brennos @Deinomenid for the info! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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