wizzardzz3000 Posted September 3 · Member Share Posted September 3 Hello everyone, I am very skeptical about the authenticity of this coin, it seems too perfect and detailed to be true, and I couldn't find another documented "N" under the dolphin. Any Istros expert here who could help me authenticate it or not? Thank you! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizzardzz3000 Posted September 3 · Member Author Share Posted September 3 Someone found it on ForgeryNetwork, confirmed fake! 4 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted September 3 · Supporter Share Posted September 3 @wizzardzz3000 you need nerves of steel to buy these. Glad you got the answer. NGC has even slabbed this type!! - MOESIA. Istrus. Ca. 400-350 BC. AR drachm (16mm, 4.29 gm, 12h). NGC MS★ 5/5 - 4/5. Two male heads side-by-side, the left inverted / IΣTPIH, sea eagle flying left, dolphin in talons; N below. AMNG I 433. A fantastic example for this popular type that often comes in much lower grade. HID02901242017 It's quite literally a front page poster for counterfeiting - 6 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ominus1 Posted September 3 · Supporter Share Posted September 3 ...well the counterfeiters done a good job on that one....other than no wear (and maybe weight), it'd be hard to tell just from looking...good job investigating! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romismatist Posted September 5 · Member Share Posted September 5 It's the style that's the dead giveaway on this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkeySwag96 Posted September 5 · Member Share Posted September 5 At 4.88 grams, my example is lighter than the OP’s coin. Is that something to be concerned about? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-monolith- Posted September 5 · Member Share Posted September 5 (edited) Another coin I would like to purchase more often but I avoid due to how many counterfeits are circulating. I purchased this one from Numismatik Naumann a while back. It's a bit low in quality / detail for my taste so I will be upgrading it when I get a chance. @wizzardzz3000 sorry for the purchase, eventually it happens to all of us. Province, City: Moesia, Istros Denomination: AR Diobol Mint: Istros (450 – 420 BC) Obverse: Two young male heads facing, side by side, one upright, the other inverted Reverse: Sea-eagle to left, clutching dolphin in its talons; (I)ΣTPIH above and Θ lower left References: BMCG 3.25.11; SNG Black Sea 250; SNG Cop 200 Edited September 6 by -monolith- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted September 5 · Supporter Share Posted September 5 15 hours ago, MrMonkeySwag96 said: Is that something to be concerned about? Sadly, probably yes. Most coins, even the so-called hoard, are 5-6g. The Historia Numorum example is 6.48g if I'm translating 100 grains correctly. I have dozens of images of the type you have, so really don't know where to start. @Ed Snible's website has lots more information. There are plenty more on forgerynetwork that might help you decide. In case it helps, in the IAPN bulletin I showed above, which has many similar copies, had only this coin as a genuine one for comparison - 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted September 5 · Member Share Posted September 5 (edited) I bought a few of the forgeries when they appeared on the European market - naturally in good faith! Soon the news among dealers spread (no internet at this time!) that this new source consisted only of forgeries. Detectable easily by the "Bulgarian eyes" - here prominent on the cover of the BOC and unfortunately also on MrMonkeyswag's coin. Just look at a lot of coins for learning. These eyes still appear on the market - not only on coins of Istros Regards Klaus Edited September 5 by Dwarf 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted September 6 · Member Share Posted September 6 (edited) On 9/5/2024 at 7:07 AM, MrMonkeySwag96 said: At 4.88 grams, my example is lighter than the OP’s coin. Is that something to be concerned about? The dies are fine one from the same dies had been sold at Robert Ball, Nachfolger, Versteigerung, 5. Dezember 1932 und folgende Tage (Katalog Nr. 8). There plate 26 lot number 1945. https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/ball_nachf1932_12_05/0120/image,info And in the main article about this coinage "Monedele de argint ale cetăţii Istros în epoca elenistică" Mihai Dima is one from the same dies listed as authentic. Plate II page 38 there number 2. https://www.academia.edu/33422621/Monedele_de_argint_ale_cetăţii_Istros_în_epoca_elenistică I have one from these dies too they are fine. All coins in the Ball auction and in the articel are authentic, so if you search for die matches you can be sure taht they are not modern dies fakes from Bulgaria. Edited September 6 by Nemo grammar error 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted September 6 · Member Share Posted September 6 (edited) I collect coins from Apollonia Pontica Drachms (4) , Istros Drachms (6) , Mesembria Diobols (3), HISTIAIA Diobols (8), Chersonesos Hemidrachms (17). The most fake polluted Greek coin emission, where even auction houses are often fooled by the fakes. If you know what you are doing you can easily avoid pretty much all fakes. You can look for die matches to specimens with old pedigree, then you will avoid most fakes but for HISTIAIA for example you will have to check Christodoulos fakes too because he made HISTIAIA fakes. To be aware of all published and unpublised fakes of this emissions if helpfull, too. (But not really necessary because you can avoid modern dies fakes by only buying coins which are die matches to coins with old pedigree except maybe for cast fakes of authentic ones where it can be helpful to know twins etc.) Edited September 6 by Nemo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted September 6 · Member Share Posted September 6 (edited) Here a nice photo what the forgery-dies of the "black sea hoard" looked like (Thanks to Ed Snible) http://digitalhn.blogspot.com/2017/09/black-sea-hoard-dies.html I think that MrMonkeyswag's coin comes from a different die than Dima's plate 38/2 - but leave the comparison to everyone's liking Thanks anyway for providing the link to auction and article. Regards Klaus Edited September 6 by Dwarf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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