Antiochus VIII Grypos

[Al Kowsky]

I won the tetradrachm pictured below at an internet only auction by Stack's & Bowers on August 21, 2024.

SYRIA. Seleukid Kingdom. Antiochus VIII Grypos, 125-96 BC (struck 121-113 BC). Antioch on the Orontes Mint. AR Tetradrachm: 16.28 gm, 31 mm, 12 h. Obverse: Diademed head of Antiochus facing right. Reverse: Zeus Uranius standing left, holding scepter & star, crescent above, IE above A in left field, O in right field. Stack's & Bowers Global Showcase Auction, lot 45078, August 21, 2024; Ex Archaeological Center Ltd. Auction 61, lot 12, October 20, 2016; Ex Yitzhak Mizrahi Collection, Tiberias, Israel.

I wanted this coin for two different reasons, it has a totally different reverse compared to an example in my collection, & it was previously auctioned by Dr. Robert Deutsch. Despite having a COA by Dr. Robert Deutsch, Stack's & Bowers felt it was important to get a Photo Certificate from NGC, exactly why I'm not sure 🤔.

I befriended Dr. Deutsch about 10 years ago when trying to pinpoint a First Revolt War shekel in my collection. Dr. Deutsch graciously pointed me in the right direction & informed me that he was writing a book on "Jewish Coinage, During The First Revolt Against Rome, 66-73 CE", copyright 2017. I bought a copy of the book & later wrote a review of the book that he was very happy with 😉. Dr. Deutsch is an antiquities dealer, archeologist, epigrapher, numismatist, & author. He received a PhD from Tel Aviv University, was a lecturer in epigraphy at the University of Haifa, & served as president of the Israeli Numismatic Society from 2015-2019.

Dr. Deutsch became embroiled in a bitter legal battle in 2004, along with four other defendants, for marketing forged antiquities 😮. Trial lasted more than 5 years, had 138 witnesses, more than 400 exhibits, & a court transcript over 12,000 pages 🤣! And you thought our legal system was screwed-up 😏.... Judge Aaron Farkash, of the Jerusalem District Court, cleared all 5 defendants of all forgery charges 😃; his opinion was handed down in a 474 page document 🤪! The state was unable to prove the guilt of the defendants, not that they were innocent. The acquittal was a serious "punch in the face" for the Israeli Antiquities Authority, an embarrassment for the Israeli Geological Survey, & professor Yuval Goren of Tel Aviv University. The object that received the most attention at the trial was the ossuary with the inscription "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus". 

This wasn't the end of the debacle 🙄. During the 5 year long trial Dr. Deutsch accrued $800,000 in lawyer expenses, a serious loss in income, & a ruined reputation 😖. In light of this, he decided to sue the Israeli Antiquities Authority for $3.4 million; the case was dismissed 🤨. Most experts believe the Yeshua Ossuary is a genuine period object that later received a fake inscription 🤔.

Pictured below is the other Antiochus VIII tetradrachm in my collection ☺️.

SELEUKID EMPIRE. Antiochus VIII Grypos, 121-96 CE (struck c. 109-96 CE). Antioch on the Orontes Mint. AR Tetradrachm: 16.24 gm, 28 mm, 1 h. Ex CNG Feature Auction 115, lot 322; Ex Grand Haven Collection (purchased from Pegasi Numismatics); Ex NFA XVII, lot 439, June 27, 1986.

Website members are welcome to post any of their coinage issued by Antiochus VIII, or anything else relevant to this post ☺️.

 

 

 

Edited September 3 by Al Kowsky
spelling correction

[TIF]

12 minutes ago, Al Kowsky said:

Despite having a COA by Dr. Robert Deutsch, Stack's & Bowers felt it was important to get a Photo Certificate from NGC, exactly why I'm not sure 🤔.

Looks like you answered your own question:

12 minutes ago, Al Kowsky said:

Dr. Deutsch became embroiled in a bitter legal battle in 2004, along with four other defendants, for marketing forged antiquities 😮.

I guess SB was worried about residual distrust due to the lawsuit, regardless of whether the distrust was warranted :(.

 

Nice coin 🙂

[Anaximander]

The court drama is a riveting, if sad story, as told. Better to have hashed it out in scholastic journals. 

I have a possible obverse die match for your Antiochos VIII / Zeus Nikephoros enthroned tetradrachm.  It is SC 2309.1 (click photo to enlarge)

     

And similar to your new Antiochos VIII / Zeus Uranus standing, I have SC 2336.2a

    

And I'll add another Antiochos VIII / Zeus Uranus standing tetradrachm that I find interesting... SC 2322.3a 

    

 

[Al Kowsky]

6 hours ago, TIF said:

Looks like you answered your own question:

I guess SB was worried about residual distrust due to the lawsuit, regardless of whether the distrust was warranted :(.

 

Nice coin 🙂

TIF, You're probably right 😉. I considered that too, however, tetradrachms of Antiochus VIII are fairly common & I can't remember seeing one that looked suspiciously fake. I guess Dr. Deutsch will be carrying the baggage of that trial forever 🤔.

[Al Kowsky]

6 hours ago, Anaximander said:

The court drama is a riveting, if sad story, as told. Better to have hashed it out in scholastic journals. 

I have a possible obverse die match for your Antiochos VIII / Zeus Nikephoros enthroned tetradrachm.  It is SC 2309.1 (click photo to enlarge)

     

And similar to your new Antiochos VIII / Zeus Uranus standing, I have SC 2336.2a

    

And I'll add another Antiochos VIII / Zeus Uranus standing tetradrachm that I find interesting... SC 2322.3a 

    

 

Anaximander, Thanks for posting your 3 handsome tetradrachms ☺️. Without doubt, both our coins were struck from the same obverse die 😮!

 

[Ryro]

Incredible coin and story!  And what a stunning Hellenistic portrait 😍 Big coingrats @Al Kowsky!

Here's my bronze A8 with a more beautiful rendering of Helios than I'd remembered:

Antiochus VIII and Cleopatra Thea -
125-121 BC Antioch mint.
Obv: radiate head of Helios right. Rev: BASILISSHS KLEOPATRAS and KAI BASILEWS ANTIOXOY to left and right of owl standing right, head facing, on amphora. 6.34 grams. (.). Near extremely fine. [No Reserve]
Provenance: From the estate of a Cambridge University academic.
Literature
BMC 105; SNG Cop 377; SNG Spaer 2441. Ex: Timeline

Edited September 2 by Ryro

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

That's quite a nice coin.  I have a less spectacular one, maybe VF and porous, probably a sea hoard, purchased c. 1997 from a pick tray of these tets, from Jon Subak.  Mine was porous and c. $75, if I recall correctly.  My non e-buys aren't photographed.

[Al Kowsky]

8 hours ago, Ryro said:

Incredible coin and story!  And what a stunning Hellenistic portrait 😍 Big coingrats @Al Kowsky!

Here's my bronze A8 with a more beautiful rendering of Helios than I'd remembered:

Antiochus VIII and Cleopatra Thea -
125-121 BC Antioch mint.
Obv: radiate head of Helios right. Rev: BASILISSHS KLEOPATRAS and KAI BASILEWS ANTIOXOY to left and right of owl standing right, head facing, on amphora. 6.34 grams. (.). Near extremely fine. [No Reserve]
Provenance: From the estate of a Cambridge University academic.
Literature
BMC 105; SNG Cop 377; SNG Spaer 2441. Ex: Timeline

Ryro, A handsome coin indeed, & enhanced by a lovely patina 🤩. The power of Helios is magnified by the way his rays break through the dotted border ☺️. Elements of the reverse design were clearly inspired by the tetradrachms of the period 😉.

[shanxi]

Cleopatra Thea and Antiochos VIII.

Seleukid Kingdom. Ake-Ptolemaïs.
Cleopatra Thea and Antiochos VIII.
Dated SE 187 (126/5 BC)

Obv.: Head of Artemis right, quiver and bow over shoulder
Rev.: ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣΗΣ ΚΛΕΟΠΑΤΡΑΣ to right, ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΥ to left, bow and quiver, ΙΠΡ (date) below.
Æ, 15 mm, 2,97 g
Ref.: HGC 9, 1194; SC 2275.

 

[Celator]

That's quite the trial. As I recall as of a few years ago dealers must register their inventory in order to be able to sell, putting a lot of them out of business. Nice tets in this post!

Antiochos VIII
Mint: Sidon
AR Tetradrachm
Year 197, 116/115 BC
Obvs: Diademed head of Antiochos right within fillet border.
Revs: BAΣIΛEΩΣ ANTIOXOY EΠIФANOYΣ, Zeus Ouranios standing left, holding star and scepter. Outer left, ΣIΔΩ IEP Σ٩P in three lines above monogram. Date in exergue, all within wreath.
28x30mm, 16.22g
Ref: SC 2330.2; HGC 9, 1197g(R2)

[ela126]

I actually have 1. I believe this is Acke mint. Purchased from Brad Bowlin earlier this year. one of the few Greek coins in my collection.

[Al Kowsky]

5 hours ago, shanxi said:

Cleopatra Thea and Antiochos VIII.

Seleukid Kingdom. Ake-Ptolemaïs.
Cleopatra Thea and Antiochos VIII.
Dated SE 187 (126/5 BC)

Obv.: Head of Artemis right, quiver and bow over shoulder
Rev.: ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣΗΣ ΚΛΕΟΠΑΤΡΑΣ to right, ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΥ to left, bow and quiver, ΙΠΡ (date) below.
Æ, 15 mm, 2,97 g
Ref.: HGC 9, 1194; SC 2275.

 

shanxi, Thanks for posting this lovely bronze miniature, you're lucky the date is still visible 🤩. The obverse composition was very popular on Greek coins of that period. Pictured below is a Tet of that period I sold a few years ago ☺️.

[Al Kowsky]

4 hours ago, Celator said:

That's quite the trial. As I recall as of a few years ago dealers must register their inventory in order to be able to sell, putting a lot of them out of business. Nice tets in this post!

Antiochos VIII
Mint: Sidon
AR Tetradrachm
Year 197, 116/115 BC
Obvs: Diademed head of Antiochos right within fillet border.
Revs: BAΣIΛEΩΣ ANTIOXOY EΠIФANOYΣ, Zeus Ouranios standing left, holding star and scepter. Outer left, ΣIΔΩ IEP Σ٩P in three lines above monogram. Date in exergue, all within wreath.
28x30mm, 16.22g
Ref: SC 2330.2; HGC 9, 1197g(R2)

Celator, Thanks for posting this handsome tetradrachm, the engraver did an exceptional job on the reverse 🤩!

[Al Kowsky]

1 hour ago, ela126 said:

I actually have 1. I believe this is Acke mint. Purchased from Brad Bowlin earlier this year. one of the few Greek coins in my collection.

ela126, Thanks for posting this handsome tet., & the attribution is correct. Pictured below is another example of this type that was recently auctioned by Coin Cabinet Ltd. for $287. 

[Prieure de Sion]

Antiochos VIII Epiphanes (Grypos); Tetradrachm of the Seleucid Empire Period 121-96 BC; Material: Silver; Diameter: 29mm; Weight: 16.59g; Mint: Akko Ptolemais, Seleucid Empire; Reference: SNG Spear 2591; Houghton-Lorber II, 515, 2336; Newell, LSM 27, 32; Provenance: Hess-Divo Auctions Zurich (18/19. May 2010); Obverse: diademed head of Antiochos VIII to right; Reverse: Zeus Oranios (Zeus of the heaven or Zeus as ruler of the heavens) standing left, crescent over head, Sceptre in right hand, left hand outstretched, 8 rayed sun in palm, DOP monogram below, all within wreath of olive leaves. The Inscription reads: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΥ ΕΠΙΦΑΝΟΥΣ for BASILEOS ANTIOCHOU EPIPHANOUS (Basileus Antiochos Epiphanes, King Antiochos VIII Epiphanes).

 

[Al Kowsky]

4 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

 

Antiochos VIII Epiphanes (Grypos); Tetradrachm of the Seleucid Empire Period 121-96 BC; Material: Silver; Diameter: 29mm; Weight: 16.59g; Mint: Akko Ptolemais, Seleucid Empire; Reference: SNG Spear 2591; Houghton-Lorber II, 515, 2336; Newell, LSM 27, 32; Provenance: Hess-Divo Auctions Zurich (18/19. May 2010); Obverse: diademed head of Antiochos VIII to right; Reverse: Zeus Oranios (Zeus of the heaven or Zeus as ruler of the heavens) standing left, crescent over head, Sceptre in right hand, left hand outstretched, 8 rayed sun in palm, DOP monogram below, all within wreath of olive leaves. The Inscription reads: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΥ ΕΠΙΦΑΝΟΥΣ for BASILEOS ANTIOCHOU EPIPHANOUS (Basileus Antiochos Epiphanes, King Antiochos VIII Epiphanes).

 

P. de Sion, Thanks for posting this exceptional example 🤩! BTW, I like your new avatar photo 😍.

[Al Kowsky]

5 hours ago, Celator said:

That's quite the trial. As I recall as of a few years ago dealers must register their inventory in order to be able to sell, putting a lot of them out of business. Nice tets in this post!

Antiochos VIII
Mint: Sidon
AR Tetradrachm
Year 197, 116/115 BC
Obvs: Diademed head of Antiochos right within fillet border.
Revs: BAΣIΛEΩΣ ANTIOXOY EΠIФANOYΣ, Zeus Ouranios standing left, holding star and scepter. Outer left, ΣIΔΩ IEP Σ٩P in three lines above monogram. Date in exergue, all within wreath.
28x30mm, 16.22g
Ref: SC 2330.2; HGC 9, 1197g(R2)

Celator, Seeing your Sidon tet. triggered my memory. I sold a Sidon tet. years ago with the same date as your coin, pictured below. 

[Celator]

23 minutes ago, Al Kowsky said:

Celator, Seeing your Sidon tet. triggered my memory. I sold a Sidon tet. years ago with the same date as your coin, pictured below. 

Nah I don't see a resemblance 

[DonnaML]

Not only my only Antiochos VIII, but my only Seleucid coin. It's so far outside my main collecting areas that I'm vaguely considering trying to sell it.

Syria, Seleucid Empire, Antiochos VIII Epiphanes (Grypon) Tetradrachm, 109-96 BCE Antioch Mint. Obv. Diademed head of Antiochos VIII right / Rev. Zeus Nikephoros seated left on high-backed throne, holding Nike on outstretched right hand and scepter in left; to outer left, E/P monogram above A [Antioch]; ΔI monogram below throne; BAΣΙΛΕΩΣ ANTIOXOY EΠIΦANOYΣ; all within laurel wreath. Seleucid Coins [SC] Pt. 2, 2309; Seleucid Coins Online [same] (see http://numismatics.org/sco/id/sc.1.2309 ); Seaby 7145 (ill.) [Sear, David, Greek Coins & their Values, Vol. II: Asia & Africa (Seaby 1979)]; Hoover HGC 9, 1200 [Hoover, Oliver, Handbook of Syrian Coins, Royal and Civic Issues, Fourth to First Centuries BC, The Handbook of Greek Coinage Series, Volume 9 (2009)]; Newell SMA 405 [Newell, E.T., The Seleucid Mint of Antioch (1918)], SNG Israel 2554-55 [Spaer, A.  &  A. Houghton, Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Israel I, The Arnold Spaer Collection of Seleucid Coins (London, 1998)]; BMC 4 Seleucid Syria 2 (p. 98) (ill. Pl. XXVI, No. 3) [erroneously attributed to Antiochos XI] [Gardner, P., A Catalog of the Greek Coins in the British Museum, Vol. 4, The Seleucid Kings of Syria (London, 1878)].  27 mm., 16.2 g.  Purchased Feb. 12, 2020 from Frank S. Robinson, Auction 111, Lot 146.

 

Edited September 2 by DonnaML

[Al Kowsky]

59 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

Not only my only Antiochos VIII, but my only Seleucid coin. It's so far outside my main collecting areas that I'm vaguely considering trying to sell it.

Syria, Seleucid Empire, Antiochos VIII Epiphanes (Grypon) Tetradrachm, 109-96 BCE Antioch Mint. Obv. Diademed head of Antiochos VIII right / Rev. Zeus Nikephoros seated left on high-backed throne, holding Nike on outstretched right hand and scepter in left; to outer left, E/P monogram above A [Antioch]; ΔI monogram below throne; BAΣΙΛΕΩΣ ANTIOXOY EΠIΦANOYΣ; all within laurel wreath. Seleucid Coins [SC] Pt. 2, 2309; Seleucid Coins Online [same] (see http://numismatics.org/sco/id/sc.1.2309 ); Seaby 7145 (ill.) [Sear, David, Greek Coins & their Values, Vol. II: Asia & Africa (Seaby 1979)]; Hoover HGC 9, 1200 [Hoover, Oliver, Handbook of Syrian Coins, Royal and Civic Issues, Fourth to First Centuries BC, The Handbook of Greek Coinage Series, Volume 9 (2009)]; Newell SMA 405 [Newell, E.T., The Seleucid Mint of Antioch (1918)], SNG Israel 2554-55 [Spaer, A.  &  A. Houghton, Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Israel I, The Arnold Spaer Collection of Seleucid Coins (London, 1998)]; BMC 4 Seleucid Syria 2 (p. 98) (ill. Pl. XXVI, No. 3) [erroneously attributed to Antiochos XI] [Gardner, P., A Catalog of the Greek Coins in the British Museum, Vol. 4, The Seleucid Kings of Syria (London, 1878)].  27 mm., 16.2 g.  Purchased Feb. 12, 2020 from Frank S. Robinson, Auction 111, Lot 146.

 

Donna, Thanks for posting this very attractive example 🤩! If you decide to sell the coin you might consider listing it in The Cabinet of this website 😉.

[Anaximander]

On 9/2/2024 at 7:31 PM, DonnaML said:

Syria, Seleucid Empire, Antiochos VIII Epiphanes (Grypon) Tetradrachm, 109-96 BCE Antioch Mint. Obv. Diademed head of Antiochos VIII right / Rev. Zeus Nikephoros seated left on high-backed throne, holding Nike on outstretched right hand and scepter in left; to outer left, E/P monogram above A [Antioch]; ΔI monogram below throne; BAΣΙΛΕΩΣ ANTIOXOY EΠIΦANOYΣ; all within laurel wreath. Seleucid Coins [SC] Pt. 2, 2309; Seleucid Coins Online [same] (see http://numismatics.org/sco/id/sc.1.2309 ); Seaby 7145 (ill.) [Sear, David, Greek Coins & their Values, Vol. II: Asia & Africa (Seaby 1979)]; Hoover HGC 9, 1200 [Hoover, Oliver, Handbook of Syrian Coins, Royal and Civic Issues, Fourth to First Centuries BC, The Handbook of Greek Coinage Series, Volume 9 (2009)]; Newell SMA 405 [Newell, E.T., The Seleucid Mint of Antioch (1918)], SNG Israel 2554-55 [Spaer, A.  &  A. Houghton, Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Israel I, The Arnold Spaer Collection of Seleucid Coins (London, 1998)]; BMC 4 Seleucid Syria 2 (p. 98) (ill. Pl. XXVI, No. 3) [erroneously attributed to Antiochos XI] [Gardner, P., A Catalog of the Greek Coins in the British Museum, Vol. 4, The Seleucid Kings of Syria (London, 1878)].  27 mm., 16.2 g.  Purchased Feb. 12, 2020 from Frank S. Robinson, Auction 111, Lot 146.

 

Your Antiochos VIII appears to also be a die match for the OP. Another one!  

That is an impressive attribution/bibliography all wrapped up in one. For someone who doesn't collect Seleukid coins, you sure managed to hit all the right sources: SC, Sear, HGC, Newell, SNG Spaer, and BMC.  You could add: SNG Cop 7 (Seleucid Kings) #394; ACNAC Dewing 2630 & Norman Davis 276.

Here's another tetradrachm: Cleopatra Thea & Antiochos VIII. 

  

 

[Al Kowsky]

1 hour ago, Anaximander said:

Your Antiochos VIII appears to also be a die match for the OP. Another one!  

That is an impressive attribution/bibliography all wrapped up in one. For someone who doesn't collect Seleukid coins, you sure managed to hit all the right sources: SC, Sear, HGC, Newell, SNG Spaer, and BMC.  You could add: SNG Cop 7 (Seleucid Kings) #394; ACNAC Dewing 2630 & Norman Davis 276.

Here's another tetradrachm: Cleopatra Thea & Antiochos VIII. 

  

 

Anaximander, I wouldn't "bet the farm" that these two coins are an obverse die match 🧐. 

[DonnaML]

3 hours ago, Al Kowsky said:

Anaximander, I wouldn't "bet the farm" that these two coins are an obverse die match 🧐. 

 

3 hours ago, Al Kowsky said:

Anaximander, I wouldn't "bet the farm" that these two coins are an obverse die match 🧐. 

Definitely not. And not a reverse die match either,  although they're closer.

[Kaleun96]

4 hours ago, Al Kowsky said:

Anaximander, I wouldn't "bet the farm" that these two coins are an obverse die match 🧐. 

It is interesting how similar the pattern, shape, and distribution of the hair curls are on the obverse given how different everything else is. Either they had a very strict "style guide" to follow (e.g. two big swooping curls below the ear, one swooping above the ear over the diadem, a clockwise pattern of pairs of curls emanating from the crown of the head etc) or it's the same engraver just introducing some variety to the proportions and size etc.

The similarities seem, to me, to be too close for it to be chance or a loose following of some example they were given. The number of curls, their direction, distribution and shape are almost identical in many places. I guess it likely points to it being the same engraver, that would seem to be the simplest explanation.

[DonnaML]

1 hour ago, Kaleun96 said:

It is interesting how similar the pattern, shape, and distribution of the hair curls are on the obverse given how different everything else is. Either they had a very strict "style guide" to follow (e.g. two big swooping curls below the ear, one swooping above the ear over the diadem, a clockwise pattern of pairs of curls emanating from the crown of the head etc) or it's the same engraver just introducing some variety to the proportions and size etc.

The similarities seem, to me, to be too close for it to be chance or a loose following of some example they were given. The number of curls, their direction, distribution and shape are almost identical in many places. I guess it likely points to it being the same engraver, that would seem to be the simplest explanation.

Interesting observation. The hair curls are definitely either the same or extremely similar. In fact, the upper portion of the profile (the eyes and nose) looks identical or nearly identical as well on the two coins. The biggest difference is obviously the chin. (Depending on which was issued first, either he gained a lot of weight or had chin liposuction in between the two portraits.) But the similarities are almost certainly too close to be coincidental.