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Beauty is in the eye of the Byzantine Beholder


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45 minutes ago, voulgaroktonou said:

Here's another Anastasius with bearded bust. It is Sear 22.

S0022.jpg

Whoah, now that is definitely a beard!! 🤯

Edit: just found another one on acsearch: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=207143

CNG comments there: "The clearly limned beard on Anastasius is unexplained. The beard has traditionally been seen as a sign of mourning, but there is no known death of an important member of the imperial family within the time frame of this coinage to account for it. While no follis in the Metcalf corpus shows a clear bearded bust, other stylistic elements of the portrait place it in his sub-group "d", his so-called "experimental" series. These display a number of anomalous details in facial details and adjuncts not seen on the regular issues. Metcalf explains them as possible transitional dies between the main stylistic groups. The bearded bust may just represent a trial of a new style portrait."

Edited by Severus Alexander
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@voulgaroktonou That is a fascinating coin and a truly fantastic example. 

@Severus Alexander Given the context of @voulgaroktonou's example of a bearded Sear 22, the CNG comment no longer makes sense. Sear 14 and the (unlisted) type with the wreath are both small module issues issued during Anastasius' first reform, which would certainly seem to back up the theory, but Sear 22 is a large module issue, which makes it ineligible to be a part of the "experimental" series (which was theorised to have been issued near the beginning of the first reform). Or at the very least there were two (or perhaps three?) separate issues, all with bearded portraits, which would allow the CNG example to be an "experimental" issue, but that would raise more questions than it'd answer.

 

I am surprised that that the bearded type(s) have not been discussed more widely given how distinct they are from all other issues.

Edited by Zimm
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Another to add, at first glance, it is ugly, but to a Byzantine collector it is very cool for multiple reasons. 

Rare and an ugly example from the collection of Simon Bendall. 

This Alexius III half tetarteron was acquired by me with a bit of luck. The auction firm CNG made a simple mistake that allowed me to win the coin. Simon Bendall had two examples in his collection when it was put up for auction after his death. The better of the two examples was placed after this example, bidding on this coin stopped short because everyone wanted the other example(I had already been outbid on the second example). I won it, it was only coin that Bendall owned that sold at a reasonable price on that sale. 

This ragged example has become one of my favorites in my collection.

m3.jpg.028cc89d456694553d57c7c050f9b078.jpg

ALEXIUS III ANGELUS-COMNENUS AE HALF TETARTERON SBCV-NL DOC 6 CLBC 8.4.2



OBV Full Length Figure of the Virgin, nimbate, orans, wearing tunic and maphorion turned to r. Manus Dei in upper r. field.

REV Full length figure of emperor wearing stemma, divitision, and colored piece and jeweled loros of a simplified type.; holds in r. hand scepter cruciger and in l. Globus cruciger

Size 15mm
Weight 1.97gm
DOC lists 1 examples with weight 2.13gm and sized at 18mm

This came from the collection of the late Simon Bendall. This coin is thought to have been minted in Constantinople the only half tetarteron thought to be minted from there.

Edited by Simon
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I do like this thread.  Beauties these are not, but I really like them... First, a trio of Phocas half folles - my favorite is the bottom left, nice contrasting sand patina and a wretched broken-potato-chip oversized flan:

Byz-PhocashalffollislotDec2022(0).jpg.3edcf9fd54b05de689cc039f7182b4a2.jpg

This Constantine X Ducas was bycatch from an eBay lot with other things I really wanted - but once I got it in hand, I think it is my favorite from the lot.  I have three others, but this is the one with the most intact legend, and it is by far the heaviest, so yeah, sorry to report, this is an upgrade for me: 

Byz-ConstantineXDucasfollislotJan2023(0).jpg.7abf31de1c5cb3c4057782bef7451ead.jpg

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On 1/4/2023 at 3:12 PM, Severus Alexander said:

I look forward to cleaning this year 12 Constantinople of Justinian:

image.jpeg.9447703e3a61ce896b3b5a0cb226d57c.jpeg

The patina under the crud is pretty robust so I think it will turn out well after a  mechanical cleaning.  I had been wanting one from the first year of the reform, and got this for a very reasonable hammer.

If it were mine, I would leave it as is. It looks old and I love the color. Would it be better if very skillfully cleaned? I doubt it.

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1 hour ago, Valentinian said:

If it were mine, I would leave it as is. It looks old and I love the color. Would it be better if very skillfully cleaned? I doubt it.

Thanks, @Valentinian, I appreciate the feedback. To be sure it isn't a high-priority cleaning job, but it has a bit too much crud on it for my taste. Some detail is lost, especially on the left pendilium, also on the shield. If I do end up cleaning it, I promise I'll be sparing! 🙂 

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On 2/14/2023 at 6:06 PM, Simon said:

Another to add, at first glance, it is ugly, but to a Byzantine collector it is very cool for multiple reasons. 

Rare and an ugly example from the collection of Simon Bendall. 

This Alexius III half tetarteron was acquired by me with a bit of luck. The auction firm CNG made a simple mistake that allowed me to win the coin. Simon Bendall had two examples in his collection when it was put up for auction after his death. The better of the two examples was placed after this example, bidding on this coin stopped short because everyone wanted the other example(I had already been outbid on the second example). I won it, it was only coin that Bendall owned that sold at a reasonable price on that sale. 

This ragged example has become one of my favorites in my collection.

m3.jpg.028cc89d456694553d57c7c050f9b078.jpg

ALEXIUS III ANGELUS-COMNENUS AE HALF TETARTERON SBCV-NL DOC 6 CLBC 8.4.2



OBV Full Length Figure of the Virgin, nimbate, orans, wearing tunic and maphorion turned to r. Manus Dei in upper r. field.

REV Full length figure of emperor wearing stemma, divitision, and colored piece and jeweled loros of a simplified type.; holds in r. hand scepter cruciger and in l. Globus cruciger

Size 15mm
Weight 1.97gm
DOC lists 1 examples with weight 2.13gm and sized at 18mm

This came from the collection of the late Simon Bendall. This coin is thought to have been minted in Constantinople the only half tetarteron thought to be minted from there.

Wow, @Simon, I had no idea that half tetarterons were even issued this late.  It felt as if I was going out of my way to even find a half-decent tetarteron of Isaak II.  ...Well, judge for yourself.  I did like how much of the reverse legend was there, though.

D:\COINS,BYZ,ISAACIIrev.jpgD:\COINS,BYZ,ISAACIIobv.jpg

AE tetarteron of Thessaloniki.
Obv.  The Archangel Michael facing, nimbate, winged, holding scepter and globus cruciger.
[In left and right fields, in multiple lines:  O / X / AP ...] X [/] M [/ I]  (with abbreviations: the Archangel Michael).
Rev.  Isaac facing, wearing crown and loros, holding scepter and akakia.
[As above:  I]CA [/] AK [/] IOC  [...]  L\ [E /] C|-|O[+ /] HC  (“ICAAKIOC L\ECPOTHC;” Isaakios, the (Despot/) Emperor). 
Sear 2005.

 

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50 minutes ago, JeandAcre said:

Wow, @Simon, I had no idea that half tetarterons were even issued this late.  It felt as if I was going out of my way to even find a half-decent tetarteron of Isaak II.  ...Well, judge for yourself.  I did like how much of the reverse legend was there, though.

It is a very nice example @JeandAcre, the archangel on this type has three variations but they are in the notes, not a change in number. It has to do with the device in his right shoulder, trifold device, jeweled scepter and another that escapes my attention right now. Your has that invert on Isaac II chest. I only have one other example similar.

The denomination tetarteron basically ends near the end of the empire, the name changes, to assarion after Andronicus II. David Sear calls the flat coins Assarion but Simon Bendall kept using the term tetarteron. 

Twenty years ago I got assistance from a great collector named Chris Connell, he has several articles in the Celator. I asked a question on Yahoo forums about the late denominations. Here is his reply that he allowed me to share back then.

I posted the same question on the Byzantine  Yahoo Groups. I received this reply from a fellow collector.

The coins that David Sear calls assarion are called tetarteron by Simon
Bendall.  The word assarion means "smallest," so it appears to be a
nickname for the tetarteron.  The assaria and tetartera that I have seen
are flat coins, not scyphate.

Tornese appears to be a French name for a billon coin that was applied
to low denomination Byzantine coins whose name in that culture we are
not sure of.  It appears that Tornese are billon, where tetartera are
copper.

The AE stamenon appears to be a word applied to billon and copper
trachea.  These coins are scyphate (the word scyphate, btw, is a
descriptive word for cup shaped coins).

The follaro was the Byzantine Empire's last copper coin, struck after
the other coins were no longer minted.  The follaro is too tiny and to
thin a coin to be scyphate.  Its name is also an Italian word for a coin
whose actual name in the Byzantine culture we do not know, but I suspect
that the Byzantines called it a follis, even though this tiny crude coin
was a far cry from the follis coins of the early empire.

--Chris Connell

As for me, I started just collecting this denomination from the 12th century, it has left me with many mysteries about the coin and the values it represented. As for SBCV-2005 I am ashamed to let you know how many examples I have but here is one in great condition I won in a group lot I recently purchaed. It was from a Leu auction. 

2005c.jpg.a9977082e7bb0763b36014b2a711bc89.jpg

Isaac II Angelus, first reign, 1185-1195. Tetarteron (Bronze, 21 mm, 3.33 g, 4 h), Thessalonica. O / X - X / MI Facing bust of the Archangel Michael, beardless and nimbate, holding spear in his right hand and globus cruciger in his left. Rev. [...]KI/OC Facing bust of Isaac II Angelus, wearing crown and loros, holding cruciform scepter in his right hands and akakia in his left. SB 2005. Light areas of weakness, otherwise, good very fine.

It is a very nice example @JeandAcre, the archangel on this type has three variations but they are in the notes, not a change in number. It has to do with the device in his right shoulder, trifold device, jeweled scepter and another that escapes my attention right now. Your has that invert on Isaac II chest. I only have one other example similar.

The denomination tetarteron basically ends near the end of the empire, the name changes, to assarion after Andronicus II. David Sear calls the flat coins Assarion but Simon Bendall kept using the term tetarteron. 

Twenty years ago I got assistance from a great collector named Chris Connell, he has several articles in the Celator. I asked a question on Yahoo forums about the late denominations. Here is his reply that he allowed me to share back then.

I posted the same question on the Byzantine  Yahoo Groups. I received this reply from a fellow collector.

The coins that David Sear calls assarion are called tetarteron by Simon
Bendall.  The word assarion means "smallest," so it appears to be a
nickname for the tetarteron.  The assaria and tetartera that I have seen
are flat coins, not scyphate.

Tornese appears to be a French name for a billon coin that was applied
to low denomination Byzantine coins whose name in that culture we are
not sure of.  It appears that Tornese are billon, where tetartera are
copper.

The AE stamenon appears to be a word applied to billon and copper
trachea.  These coins are scyphate (the word scyphate, btw, is a
descriptive word for cup shaped coins).

The follaro was the Byzantine Empire's last copper coin, struck after
the other coins were no longer minted.  The follaro is too tiny and to
thin a coin to be scyphate.  Its name is also an Italian word for a coin
whose actual name in the Byzantine culture we do not know, but I suspect
that the Byzantines called it a follis, even though this tiny crude coin
was a far cry from the follis coins of the early empire.

--Chris Connell

As for me, I started just collecting this denomination from the 12th century, it has left me with many mysteries about the coin and the values it represented. As for SBCV-2005 I am ashamed to let you know how many examples I have but here is one in great condition I won in a group lot I recently purchaed. It was from a Leu auction. 

2005c.jpg.a9977082e7bb0763b36014b2a711bc89.jpg

Isaac II Angelus, first reign, 1185-1195. Tetarteron (Bronze, 21 mm, 3.33 g, 4 h), Thessalonica. O / X - X / MI Facing bust of the Archangel Michael, beardless and nimbate, holding spear in his right hand and globus cruciger in his left. Rev. [...]KI/OC Facing bust of Isaac II Angelus, wearing crown and loros, holding cruciform scepter in his right hands and akakia in his left. SB 2005. Light areas of weakness, otherwise, good very fine.

Edited by Simon
I goofed.
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Many thanks, @Simon, for all of this cool detail!  I knew nothing of the modulations of the denomination(s); I just assumed that tetarterons and halves ended with the Dukas dynasty.  ...Anecdotally, I'd seen 'assarions' listed online, but never made the connection to tetarterons.

In a similar vein, it never occurred to me that scyphates (hmm --from the Italian; nope, that was news) could have circulated and been issued as the de facto equivalent of folles.  (Even folles become much smaller from Alexios I, making the transition that much more plausible.)  

In both cases, though, this makes intuitive sense.  To wallow in the obvious, with coins, the monetary dynamics (including international trade) would have been the bottom line.  Witness the innumerable immobilizations of contemporary French deniers and English pennies.  These people were more interested in the mercantile facts on the ground than they were in what numismatists would make of them most of a millennium later!

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One of my favorite comments in the "unpopular numismatic opinions" thread reads:

"Byzantine coinage is objectively ugly, to deny this is to be an aesthetic antirealist."

Of course the person has every right to their opinion and every right to not like Byzantine coinage. But I find the wording interesting because it seems to imply that finding Byzantine coins attractive is some kind of a mistake.

I'm not mentioning the user's name because this isn't meant as an attack on either the person or the opinion. I'm curious to just react to it in what I hope is a non-judgmental way. Basically explore the idea and see where it goes. I don't think that the opinion is either right or wrong. And I'm not being sarcastic when I say it's one of my favorites in that thread. It made me think.

I would consider myself neither an aesthetic realist nor an anti-realist. I think aesthetics rests on more of a continuum overlaying a number of Venn diagrams. Each circle on the diagram represents some kind of ideal of beauty. Somewhere, all of the circles intersect into a vague and semi-collective notion of "beautiful." But everything in the non-intersecting sections of the circles someone, somewhere also considers beautiful. So, though I agree that humans have some degree of shared aesthetics, I think even that strongest sense of shared aesthetic value remains indistinct and nebulous. I don't believe in "aesthetic truths" at all, though I see some argument for a wispy definition of shared beauty, but not a definitional one, such as a geometric formula or an algorithm that determines "the beautiful." So I don't think that aesthetic objectivity exists in a strong sense, but maybe in a weak sense.

Many people find Byzantine coins beautiful. I do. Others here obviously do as well. Yet I can also understand why some people find them ugly. I wouldn't argue with someone who finds them ugly. It also doesn't mean that they are either ugly or beautiful in and of themselves. I have not yet been able to pinpoint exactly why I find Byzantine coins attractive. The closest analogy I can think of relates to my liking of (some) dissonant music. They evoke feelings and thoughts unavailable elsewhere. There is nothing else quite like them. Their use of abstraction feels almost medieval, but not quite. Someday I might find the words to describe it. It's not a religious or an "oceanic" feeling that they inspire. It's something human that, again, seems unexpressed in other coinage. I have yet to get sick of Byzantine coins. I'm not sure if I ever will.

For good measure, here are a few ugly/beautiful examples that I don't think I've shared in this thread before.

602_to_610_Phocas_AE_Follis_01.png.ca6604dada13e4e2222dd159cd30f3e0.png602_to_610_Phocas_AE_Follis_02.png.de5951a3180fc92c1ccdf50f5cc7989d.png
Phocas (602-610), Æ Follis (33mm, 11.79g), Cyzicus, Dated RY 4 ? (605/6); Obv: δN POCAS+PERPAVG, Crowned bust facing, wearing consular robes and holding mappa and cross, small cross to left; Rev: Large XXXX, ANNO above, II/II (date) to right, KYZA, Sear 665

641_to_668_ConstansII_AE_Follis_01.png.71084ca688c27375a162dc1dae147e57.png641_to_668_ConstansII_AE_Follis_02.png.1b71675e8c40e5be9ce1ece73507ffc6.png
Constans II (641-668), AE Follis / 40 Nummi, Syracuse, 652-3, AE 23-27mm. 6g. Constans standing facing, wearing crown and chlamys, holding globus cruciger in right hand; I/H/Δ to l., I/A to right / Large M; cross above; SCL. MIB 208; DOC 179; S. 1108.

Edited by ewomack
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2 hours ago, ewomack said:

I'm not mentioning the user's name because this isn't meant as an attack on either the person or the opinion. I'm curious to just react to it in what I hope is a non-judgmental way. Basically explore the idea and see where it goes. I don't think that the opinion is either right or wrong. And I'm not being sarcastic when I say it's one of my favorites in that thread. It made me think.

 

My career is in art and sales of art. The coins that we enjoy from the Christian Roman Empire are a type of abstract creations working under a simple philosophy of spiritualism, all beauty is from within, and our outward appearance hinders that beauty.  

Abstract work always requires a greater participation from the viewer, more thought. The most popular art in this world is the literal work, work that requires no thought to understand.  More people buy Kincade’s. than Pollacks and Picassos’, that’s okay, not everyone wants to think when they look at art, the sometimes just want to enjoy the view.

 

I personally chose to skip that topic you mentioned @ewomack, the thread opens the door to arguments and hurt feelings. It is easy to find reasons not to like each other and divide collectors, it is far more difficult to unite people.  

One other comment, most Christian Roman Empire collectors(Byzantine) started out collecting Roman Imperial or other earlier time periods before they collected Byzantine( I did), it seems to be evolution or simple a change in taste.

z5.jpg.2986e7849761e5c2b752e1597d6f482f.jpg

 

Edited by Simon
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24 minutes ago, Simon said:

It is easy to find reasons not to like each other and divide collectors, it is far more difficult to unite people.  

It would be interesting to start a counter-thread called “Universal Truths” that explores the idea of what is common across all areas of ancient coinage that draws us to spend our hard earned money on obsolete money! 

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On 2/20/2023 at 8:00 PM, Simon said:

I personally chose to skip that topic you mentioned @ewomack, the thread opens the door to arguments and hurt feelings. It is easy to find reasons not to like each other and divide collectors, it is far more difficult to unite people. 

I completely understand why you would avoid that thread. Yet the level of decency in it has really surprised me. People share "controversial" opinions and the mood has remained pretty tranquil overall. 99% of the interaction has been extremely polite. I like that we have a community that can get along well even when discussing differences. That's not to say it still could not get out of hand, but so far, so good. We have a very diverse collection of collectors here and I think it's good to embrace and accept our differences.

Edited by ewomack
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Here is a couple examples from a group lot I bought during the pandemic, I was disappointed when I received the group lot it came from, I paid too much for the lot. I am just revisiting them today. 

This half follis of Justinian has a nice weight and heavy green patina, the mint is unclear, I am thinking Constantinople. 

r3.jpg.8262519320c7c7a7debf05e26da601c5.jpg

 

This Hercules coin does not have an attributable mint. 

q6.jpg.3a0ce0d3fc6b5415fd9eb7ec02cb59d4.jpg

 

And a Constans II

r6.jpg.2f6c26ee694e7d06a2715579252f1604.jpg

 

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