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my first Islamic gold coin


Nerosmyfavorite68

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Being a bit of an opportunist I picked up this humble and fairly cheap slightly debased gold coin.  It's presumably clipped and a bit worn, but I considered this the best one of the ones which were remaining.  There was one which was allegedly rarer and $100 more, but I used the difference on two throw-in coins.

It's a bit confusing how I should catalog the coin.  The listing was as such: Farrukhzad ibn Mas'ud (AH 444-451 / AD 1053-1060). Caliph al-Qa'im (AH 422-467 / AD 1031-1075). Title of Abu Shuja' & mu'ayyid al-mu'minin

So, is Farrukhzad ibn Mas'ud the local leader of Ghazni? What's the Abu Shuja' & mu'ayyid al-mu-minin?

What does a full example look like and what should it weigh?

This was the best compromise example of those available.  The gold wasn't too pale and this was one of the larger/heavier ones.  It was also pretty cheap.

Ghaznavid-FarrukznadIbnMasud-1053-1060-AVDinar-24.58mm3.05gAlbum1633clipped.jpg.092ccb07e44faf7ad5bbe849810747a6.jpg

Attribution: Album 1633
Date: AH 444-451 / AD 1053-1060
Size: 24.58mm
Weight: 3.05 grams

 

Heraclius-610-641-AEFollis-S805-32.53mm12.20dealertagfor75Yr4ACON.jpg.8e17106af2d7afdcf1f937a2afcde2dc.jpg

This was a throw-in, chosen for its large flan.  The description states 32.53mm, but it must be c. 35 or 36mm high.

Sear 805 is the comfort food of the Byzantine series, and I must have at least 10 of these, perhaps more.

The listing noted a tag of a "well-known dealer". It was the same yellow color and font of HJB, but didn't have th ename on  it, and HJB generally has a printed back with the firm name. The coin's probably a bit too ugly for HJB, so I guess it might be a mystery.  I've also seen tags of Nick Ecounopolis (probably butchering the name), which also looked similar, IIRC, but that also had a name on it.

AbderaThrace-ARTetrobol-375-360BC-15.27mm2.27gholed-obvgriffinMO-P-EI-....jpg.635f790338f8fefb8b047ec8e004f2d8.jpg

Attribution: May 408 type
Date: 375-360 BC
Obverse: ABΔHPI / TEΩN, griffin crouching left
Reverse: M O - Π - E I - ??, head of Apollo right in linear square border
Size: 15.27mm
Weight: 2.27 grams

 

The leathery surfaces shown on the picture concerned me a bit, but it's from a reputable dealer, and is probably due to crystallization.  However, in person the coin looks far better and the price was low.  I'm glad I tossed this one into the shopping basket.

 

Edited by Nerosmyfavorite68
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1 hour ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

It's a bit confusing how I should catalog the coin.  The listing was as such: Farrukhzad ibn Mas'ud (AH 444-451 / AD 1053-1060). Caliph al-Qa'im (AH 422-467 / AD 1031-1075). Title of Abu Shuja' & mu'ayyid al-mu'minin

So, is Farrukhzad ibn Mas'ud the local leader of Ghazni? What's the Abu Shuja' & mu'ayyid al-mu-minin?

What does a full example look like and what should it weigh?

This was the best compromise example of those available.  The gold wasn't too pale and this was one of the larger/heavier ones.  It was also pretty cheap.

Ghaznavid-FarrukznadIbnMasud-1053-1060-AVDinar-24.58mm3.05gAlbum1633clipped.jpg.092ccb07e44faf7ad5bbe849810747a6.jpg

Attribution: Album 1633
Date: AH 444-451 / AD 1053-1060
Size: 24.58mm
Weight: 3.05 grams

 

 

 

The ruler's full protocol is Jamal al-Dawla wa Kamal al-Milla Abu Shuja' Farrukhzad bin Mas'ud Mu'ayyad Amir al-Mu'minin. Because the die is only so large, he is cited as Abu Shuja' Farrukhzad Mu'ayyad Amir al-Mu'minin. For practical collector purposes, "Farrukhzad" is enough. Farrukhzad was sultan of the Ghaznavid Empire. The coin also cites his spiritual overlord, the 'Abbasid caliph al-Qa'im. The mint and date are legible: Ghazna, AH [4]44. Album 1633.

https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=49107

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farrukh-Zad_of_Ghazna

Edited by DLTcoins
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Last year I bought a silver stater from @KenDorney that was formerly from the inventory of Nick Economopoulos. The coin came with Nick’s tag, however I haven’t taken a picture of the tag. I’m too lazy to dig through all my paperwork to look for it:

image.jpeg.3222d82401e70b633dbd492e3ba274f3.jpeg
 

Lucania, Metapontion, 340 - 330 BC Silver Stater, 19mm, 7.53 grams Obverse: Wreathed head of Demeter right. Reverse: Ear of barley with leaf on left, mouse above leaf, META upwards on right. BMC 123 // Johnston Class A, 8.16 // HN Italy 1570 ex Economopoulos Numismatics, with his tag.

 

 

Edited by MrMonkeySwag96
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IIRC the very nice Alexius III trachy with his tag had similar font, but was full-sized and bore his name at the bottom.

What should a dinar of that time weigh?  Trawling through vcoins I'm seeing a couple of listings as high as 4.3, but the low 3's seems to be the most common weight for the Ghaznavids.  Is 4 the 'norm'?

It's a shade more pale than a Nicephorus III electrum nomisma that I have; a Nicephorus which is on the 'finer' side of his reign.

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Hi again, @Nerosmyfavorite68.  I couldn't confirm it in this instance but, as it sounds like you already knew, 'official' clipping was a common Islamic means of remonetization.  I've seen lots of it in Andalusian coins, especially the taifas (later 11th c. CE), in both gold and silver.  Frequently, a prominent 'tell' is that, since it was official, no real attempt was made even to be discrete about it.  Here are two, less and more like your example, respectively.

image.jpeg.8813716679eb0e69703da4a66dfafccc.jpeg

Valencia, Al-Malik, half-dinar (Vives 1078). 

image.jpeg.4619ab5ea44f1309356c2e884ff562dd.jpeg

Toledo and Valencia, Yahya al-Mamun.  Electrum fractional dinar (less pale in hand).  Vives 1097.

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The price for the dinar was cheap and the coin is fairly forgettable, but the educational value was high, and isn't that what numismatics are (or should be) all about?

I forgot to add, the mystery tag for the Heraclius was about 40% as large as regular HJB tags.  I should just email the dealer and ask if he remembers who the 'well-known' dealer was.

The original tag states aVF, but it's more like aF.  One wonders how long the 805's stayed in circulation. It must have been quite a while, and that also brings up the mystery of how they were valued compared to the shrunken later issues.

I have 10+ 805's, but if I have an 806, it must have been an Allen Berman junk box one.  I have no records of having one.  Anybody remember the 4 coins for $20 deal? That was fun. The 1990's coins were about the same quality as the Heraclius, albeit with a better desert patina and usually not as large.

The post office did try and destroy the package; it arrived crumpled and a bit dirty, but the contents survived.  The Marc B advertising round coin insert acts as both advertising and as the cardboard inner mailer.  I found those quite useful as coasters under the glasses in my kitchen show cabinet.

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