Coin Microscope? It works well?

[Prieure de Sion]

When the postman rings twice. The package arrives and is immediately unpacked and tried out. First impression - for the money, I'm a bit thrilled. I hope it stays that way.

First. It's much smaller than I thought it would be when I unpacked the little parcel. But it's quite practical for the desk.

Secondly. It comes with lots of accessories and works plug & play (on the Mac). I need to run it on the new iMac with a USB C to USB adapter. But the camera is recognised perfectly. With the app "Photo Booth" you can immediately switch to the USB camera and get started.

Thirdly. You have two options to set distance and zoom. On the right, you can turn to adjust the distance and size. This allows you to set enough distance to capture the whole coin. I think coins up to 50-60mm in diameter will easily fit in the picture. Then you can adjust the zoom and focus on the camera itself.

There is a rotary wheel on the USB cable. You can use it to adjust the brightness of the LED lamp, which is very practical. Turn it off completely and use the ambient light or the internal LED lamp. Which, by the way, is very powerful!

 

 

[Prieure de Sion]

These are the first shots with different strengths of the built-in LED light - I haven't adjusted anything yet, I haven't reworked anything, I don't have a base. Off, medium, strong.

 

[Prieure de Sion]

First tentative steps - a first collage with a Gordianius Denarius with the USB microscope camera...

 

[shanxi]

First impression: Better than i thought. Of course the lighting could be enhanced. (More light on the face).

Problems I see: The head seems to be sharp and in focus, but you loose this sharpness at the rims. Is this a problem of the depth of field? In this case it would be possible to focus the edge. Or is the quality lower outside of the center?

[Prieure de Sion]

3 minutes ago, shanxi said:

Better than i thought. 

Here the same... better than 79 EUR I thought can do...

But, by the way... if it gets not more better - for shop pictures it will do well...

4 minutes ago, shanxi said:

Of course the lighting could be enhanced. (More light on the face).

Yes I need more light...

4 minutes ago, shanxi said:

Problems I see: The head seems to be sharp and in focus, but you loose this sharpness at the rims. Is this a problem of the depth of field? In this case it would be possible to focus the edge. Or is the quality lower outside of the center?

This is the question... I think its an 79 EUR quality problem and normal, that you loose focus at the rims.
But let me check get close on the coin - and play with the focus. 
Or get more outside the coin to get more focus on the rims...

 

Next ... I need more lights 😄 

[Prieure de Sion]

Ahhhh!

If you use a white background/underlay, the camera is overwhelmed. The brighter you make it - the more the camera turns dark. If I make it even brighter - the camera overrides - and it darkens more and more. This is probably due to the white background - which then reflects brighter and brighter. And the camera turns off automatically.

Now I quickly put a simple black background underneath it. Now there is not so much brightness reflecting against the camera and I can give more brightness to the coin.

 

 

I ordered plexiglass photo underlays which were also delivered. They are even better in terms of the background. I'll try them out next. But you can't get rid of the blurred edge. That's probably due to the 79 euros. But honestly. If the whole coin were crisp and sharp, that would scare me more at this price and make any 1000 euro macro equipment pointless. For the price, there MUST be a drawback 🙂

[Kaleun96]

1 hour ago, Prieure de Sion said:

But you can't get rid of the blurred edge. That's probably due to the 79 euros. But honestly. If the whole coin were crisp and sharp, that would scare me more at this price and make any 1000 euro macro equipment pointless. For the price, there MUST be a drawback 🙂

What's the maximum resolution of the images you get from this camera? I don't think it says in the Amazon listing and I'm not sure if the photos you've uploaded are downscaled or cropped.

There's two reasons you might get "soft corners" with this camera: the lens is not flat-field but curved-field, or the lens simply can't resolve the detail outside of the centre and these details will always appear blurry. It's easy to test which of these issues the lens has, though it's likely a combination of both. Move the focus of the lens up/down to see if you can get the edges of the coin to appear sharp - do this while keeping the coin in the centre of the image. If the coin edges always appear blurry, the issue is more that the lens can't resolve detail at the edges and there's not much you can do about it. On the other hand, if you find you can make the edges of the coin sharp by adjusting focus, even if the centre of the coin goes out of focus, you could use focus stacking to merge multiple photos into a single photo that is completely in focus.

I wouldn't give the camera too much leeway on these issues just because it costs 80 euro. It is definitely possible to find lenses that are both flat-field and have excellent ability to resolve detail at the edges and corners of an image for a similar price. Of course, you've bought not only a lens but a full camera setup so it's not exactly a fair comparison. But one could, for instance, pair a couple of Raynox close-up lenses to achieve a similar level of magnification but with much better optical quality and then you a mobile phone to take a photo through the lens system. This has some other challenges and it's a bit awkward to take photos on your phone through another set of lenses but it is possible to get better optical quality at this price point if you know what to buy and happen to already have a smartphone from the last couple of years.

That being said, I think your edited photos turned out quite well regardless and the soft edges are not too apparent. Though the photo resolution of these photos is quite small so it is harder to spot mildly out of focus or soft parts of the image anyway.

[Prieure de Sion]

10 minutes ago, Kaleun96 said:

What's the maximum resolution of the images you get from this camera? I don't think it says in the Amazon listing and I'm not sure if the photos you've uploaded are downscaled or cropped.

 

10 minutes ago, Kaleun96 said:

There's two reasons you might get "soft corners" with this camera: the lens is not flat-field but curved-field, or the lens simply can't resolve the detail outside of the centre and these details will always appear blurry. It's easy to test which of these issues the lens has, though it's likely a combination of both. Move the focus of the lens up/down to see if you can get the edges of the coin to appear sharp - do this while keeping the coin in the centre of the image. If the coin edges always appear blurry, the issue is more that the lens can't resolve detail at the edges and there's not much you can do about it. On the other hand, if you find you can make the edges of the coin sharp by adjusting focus, even if the centre of the coin goes out of focus, you could use focus stacking to merge multiple photos into a single photo that is completely in focus.

I mainly want to take 10-20 pictures quickly and easily for coins in the shop. And I have to say that the quality is sufficient for that. 

Right. If the pictures were for my homepage! Then it wouldn't be enough for me! But for the shop it's really enough. I am positively surprised. I get better pictures than some auction houses do with their coins 🙂

 

12 minutes ago, Kaleun96 said:

I wouldn't give the camera too much leeway on these issues just because it costs 80 euro. It is definitely possible to find lenses that are both flat-field and have excellent ability to resolve detail at the edges and corners of an image for a similar price. Of course, you've bought not only a lens but a full camera setup so it's not exactly a fair comparison. But one could, for instance, pair a couple of Raynox close-up lenses to achieve a similar level of magnification but with much better optical quality and then you a mobile phone to take a photo through the lens system. This has some other challenges and it's a bit awkward to take photos on your phone through another set of lenses but it is possible to get better optical quality at this price point if you know what to buy and happen to already have a smartphone from the last couple of years.

As already written. It has to be fast, uncomplicated and the quality has to be reasonably good. Because time is money. If I mess around with a coin for 15 minutes - nothing is earned. Here I can put the coin underneath, all coins are the same size - it's almost like a machine photograph. The picture is directly on the computer. Perfect.

But you can't compare it to a small photo setup next door. But the question is always - which points are important to you?

 

14 minutes ago, Kaleun96 said:

That being said, I think your edited photos turned out quite well regardless and the soft edges are not too apparent. Though the photo resolution of these photos is quite small so it is harder to spot mildly out of focus or soft parts of the image anyway.

Exactly. I repeat myself, sorry. But in the shop the pictures are even smaller. Hardly anyone will notice the small blur at the edge.

[Prieure de Sion]

The black underlays I ordered from Amazon are way too big. and they shine and reflect like a monkey's ass. For now, I have helped myself with a small black foam cushion. Roma London is always so kind to send these little jewellery boxes with foam inside. I took that out and use it as a cushion. It's practical - because I can always change the coin and position it easily.

 

The result is enough for me. Shoot with the USB Mikroskope Kamera:

 

The only thing I'm going to think about calmly this week. I'd like to have pictures for my homepage, of course. And you wouldn't be enough for me. So if I set up something extra for the homepage - why have two systems? But I still have to think about that. I'll photograph a few coins of all metals by the weekend and then I'll see how I feel or don't feel.

But I have to praise the manufacturer. For the price, it's a bit better than I thought.

 

[Prieure de Sion]

Oh yes... with highly reflective modern coins you have to switch off the LED light source. And the overhead light must not come directly from above - as in this example. That would be very reflective.

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Prieure de Sion

[sand]

@Prieure de Sion Your new microscope is very interesting.

With my microscope, when I adjust the focus using the silver fine focus knob, I can focus on the center, or I can focus on the edges. Or, I can focus on higher points of the coin, such as the devices. Or, I can focus on lower points of the coin, such as the fields. With my microscope, the focus seems to depend on the distance from the center of the microscope's lens. Therefore, as I increase the focus distance, the high points of the center become blurry, and the low points at the center become sharp, and the edges become sharp.

Also, I can compromise, and get multiple areas of the coin with mediocre focus, but not the best focus. For example, I can get mediocre focus on both the devices and fields of the coin, but overall not as sharp as when I focus on one particular area or depth of the coin.

This can be seen, in some of my microscope photos earlier in this thread.

I don't know, if this effect is greater, if one is zoomed way in, versus zoomed way out.

But, my main purpose for buying the microscope, was to view particular details of coins. For example, to look for signs of a coin being fake. Or, to view details of a coin in real time, while I carefully remove dirt or debris or encrustations from the coin, using a pointy scalpel. For that purpose, my microscope has worked very well.

By the way, can your microscope focus, when it is zoomed way out, for example to photograph a 44 mm diameter coin?

Edited July 22, 2022 by sand

[Prieure de Sion]

1 minute ago, sand said:

By the way, can your microscope focus, when it is zoomed way out, for example to photograph a 44 mm diameter coin?

I will test this in the evening, no problem.

[Constantivs]

34 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

I will test this in the evening, no problem.

This is the question....

[thenickelguy]

I would say that you are doing quite well with it.

Way better than I am. I did learn not to use a white background. I think the farther from the coin, the less outer focus problem we'll have.

[Prieure de Sion]

Don't laugh! 😄 

I have packed the microscope camera away again. It's going back to Amazon tomorrow. Why?

1. the blurred edge cannot be removed. It doesn't bother me for the shop. But it bothers me for the pictures on the homepage. This means I have two systems - pictures for the shop, pictures for the homepage. If I make pictures for the homepage with a good setup - I can also make them for the shop with the same system.

2. exposure. Some coins came out better with a white background, some with a black background. The camera constantly has problems adjusting to changing "coin colours". Sometimes it is too bright, sometimes too dark. If something disturbs it, the whole light setup is disturbed and has to be completely readjusted. You are forced to search and try out the ideal set for each coin. 

I don't want to say the product is bad, because you can't expect more for the money. It is a nice toy under 100 euros. But not ideal for MY purposes. In that case, just under 80 euros is too much - to use it only sporadically.

Now I'm going to buy a fixed tripod and a macro lens for my system camera.

[sand]

1 hour ago, Prieure de Sion said:

Don't laugh! 😄 

I have packed the microscope camera away again. It's going back to Amazon tomorrow. Why?

1. the blurred edge cannot be removed. It doesn't bother me for the shop. But it bothers me for the pictures on the homepage. This means I have two systems - pictures for the shop, pictures for the homepage. If I make pictures for the homepage with a good setup - I can also make them for the shop with the same system.

2. exposure. Some coins came out better with a white background, some with a black background. The camera constantly has problems adjusting to changing "coin colours". Sometimes it is too bright, sometimes too dark. If something disturbs it, the whole light setup is disturbed and has to be completely readjusted. You are forced to search and try out the ideal set for each coin. 

I don't want to say the product is bad, because you can't expect more for the money. It is a nice toy under 100 euros. But not ideal for MY purposes. In that case, just under 80 euros is too much - to use it only sporadically.

Now I'm going to buy a fixed tripod and a macro lens for my system camera.

Like your microscope, my microscope has a feature, in which it automatically adjusts to the amount of light. If I increase the amount of light, then the microscope dims somewhat, to try to keep the amount of light somewhat constant. This doesn't bother me too much, but it can be annoying sometimes.

My main purpose for buying the microscope, was to view particular details of coins. For example, to look for signs of a coin being fake. Or, to view details of a coin in real time, while I carefully remove dirt or debris or encrustations from the coin, using a pointy scalpel. For that purpose, my microscope has worked very well.

For taking photos of entire coins, I use a digital camera. I bought the digital camera 10 years ago or so. It's a Nikon Coolpix 18 megapixels digital camera. I think I remember paying $200 or so, 10 years ago. It has a nice telescoping lens, with auto focus. It's not the best camera for taking photos of coins, but over the years, I've figured out how to work around its quirks. I once tried a tripod, with a long arm, but that didn't work all that well for me, because it still shook, when I pushed the camera button. I suppose I could set it up, so that I could take a photo, without having to push the camera button, but I haven't messed with that. Nowadays, I just try to hold the camera steady, preferably with my hand braced against something, or my arms braced against something, and take 10 photos or so. Usually a few of the photos turn out to be in focus, and I pick the best photo. Ideally, I would like to have a fixed rack or something like that, in which the camera couldn't move when the camera button is pushed, and a camera with manual focus. It seems to me, that would be better. But for now, my crude methods seem to work well enough, for me. However, it can be time consuming. However, my biggest, most time consuming problem, is bits of debris, on the coin, or on the velvet tray. I spend a lot of time, dealing with that. If I were trying to run a coin business, then I'd have gone out of business by now. Here are my photos, of my Alexander The Great posthumous tetradrachm, using my digital camera, not my microscope.

Alexander III The Great Posthumous Issue AR Tetradrachm. 280 BC to 200 BC. Odessos Mint. Price 1163. Diameter = 28 mm. Weight = 16.74 grams. Obverse Heracles In Lion Skin. Reverse Zeus On Throne.

Edited July 22, 2022 by sand

[Etcherdude]

@sand that’s a beautiful hand-held tet shot.

In my experience, a good camera and a copy stand really are your best bet. Copy stands can be improvised or found online cheaply.

Here’s an example:

https://www.amazon.com/MINI300-Digitizing-Documents-Photography-Megapixel/dp/B07T2TMJZ6?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A2I0X2KR87388X
 

 

[sand]

9 minutes ago, Etcherdude said:

@sand that’s a beautiful hand-held tet shot.

In my experience, a good camera and a copy stand really are your best bet. Copy stands can be improvised or found online cheaply.

Here’s an example:

https://www.amazon.com/MINI300-Digitizing-Documents-Photography-Megapixel/dp/B07T2TMJZ6?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A2I0X2KR87388X
 

 

Thanks @Etcherdude

That copy stand looks like something, that may be very helpful, to decrease camera shake, when I push the camera button. Perhaps, I'll look at some copy stands, on Amazon.

Edited July 22, 2022 by sand

[Prieure de Sion]

13 minutes ago, Etcherdude said:

@sand that’s a beautiful hand-held tet shot.

In my experience, a good camera and a copy stand really are your best bet. Copy stands can be improvised or found online cheaply.

Here’s an example:

https://www.amazon.com/MINI300-Digitizing-Documents-Photography-Megapixel/dp/B07T2TMJZ6?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A2I0X2KR87388X
 

 

 

 

I think that's really the best thing. I also already have a wireless remote release for my camera. Together with the macro and the stand, I now think this is the best solution.

[Etcherdude]

13 minutes ago, sand said:

Thanks @Etcherdude

That copy stand looks like something, that may be very helpful, to decrease camera shake, when I push the camera button. Perhaps, I'll look at some copy stands, on Amazon.

If your camera has a shutter timer, that and a copy stand that will prevent shake when you take long exposures. Or yes, as you say @Prieure de Sion, a remote.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Etcherdude

[sand]

5 minutes ago, Etcherdude said:

If your camera has a shutter timer, that and a copy stand that will prevent shake when you take long exposures.

That's an excellent idea. Now that I think about it, my camera has a delay option, for either 2 seconds delay, or 10 seconds delay. Thanks @Etcherdude

Edited July 22, 2022 by sand

[Severus Alexander]

@Prieure de Sion, see this photography setup using a phone that was linked in another thread:

https://artemis-collection.com/photography/coin-photography-on-a-budget/

An excellent way to go!  Good photos, flexible setup, quick to use, cheap.  The lab jack in particular is a great idea, I got one for myself (albeit for my SLR setup rather than a phone).  Ring lights and other dimmable LED lights are available very cheaply on Amazon.

The only improvement I would suggest is that for black background photos, velvet is the best light absorber.  Better than felt, better than foam core, better than super-black paint.  Just pick up a swatch from a local fabric store.

[Prieure de Sion]

40 minutes ago, Severus Alexander said:

An excellent way to go!  Good photos, flexible setup, quick to use, cheap.  The lab jack in particular is a great idea, I got one for myself (albeit for my SLR setup rather than a phone).  Ring lights and other dimmable LED lights are available very cheaply on Amazon.

I already have a DSLR camera - if I did, I would build the setup for my camera and not the iPhone.

42 minutes ago, Severus Alexander said:

The only improvement I would suggest is that for black background photos, velvet is the best light absorber.  Better than felt, better than foam core, better than super-black paint.  Just pick up a swatch from a local fabric store.

Ah ok - velvet - I'll give that a try.

 

Just for fun, I made a small provisional set-up. I think a steady hand is very important, especially when zooming. you shake - but you think you don't shake so much. But you do. 

I took a dark background, then a metal sleeve where I put the coin. With a little distance to the background, the edge of the coin actually stands out much better.

And my tripod consists of three books (Greek Imperial Coins by David Sear, The Battle for Rome by Felix Dann and Quo Vadis by Henryk Sienkiewicz) - I put the iPhone on them. It really is that much better with a 3x zoom. And then by timer autoshot. 

I tried a few iPhone lighting filters.

 

 

Very well, it remains so. The microscope camera goes back to Amazon tomorrow and I'll invest in a small setup here and build something solid. I think that's better.

[Severus Alexander]

Some two-by-fours and some screws will make you a serviceable copy stand for your SLR:

The holes in the upright are for a long bolt to attach the camera with.  Just add wooden spacers to get the camera the right distance out.  Cheap and easy! 😄 Along with the lab jack.  I hook the camera up to my computer to take the photo (via the Canon software) and see a full size version immediately.

[Prieure de Sion]

4 minutes ago, Severus Alexander said:

 Cheap and easy!

 

That is even cheaper. And it has an advantage - you can't read your Tripod - if I get bored - I can start reading... 😄 😛