Jump to content

How a coin was made: The T. Carisius Denarius (Coin breakdown #1)


Recommended Posts

Hello everyone! 

This is my very first post here, and I hope it won't be my last! 🙂 I love ancient coins, and I especially love making infographics about coins and studying their story. Today I wanted to show you the first of a series of 'coin breakdowns' / infographics I made, using coins from my own collection. 

The one I present to you today is the 'meta-coin' of T. Carisius, showing the goddess 'Juno Moneta' on the obverse (from whom we got all the terms related to money) and the tools for minting money on the reverse. I hope you enjoy it, and let me know if you want me to post the other infographics from this work-in-progress series!

image.jpeg.5a05e84e2acabf37c4c411467f7e6bbe.jpeg

  • Like 19
  • Cool 1
  • Heart Eyes 2
  • Party 1
  • Yes 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen your infographics on Reddit and really enjoy your work. Welcome and thanks for posting here as well. Should lead to very interesting discussions and lots of learning.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I’d like to acquire this denarius type but it’s difficult to find one that’s well struck. I own another type from this same moneyer depicting a Sphinx:

 

image.jpeg.81f33973e8c67188468ad98fcee3e230.jpeg
 

Moneyer issues of Imperatorial Rome. T. Carisius. 46 BC. AR Denarius (20mm, 3.83 g, 3h). Rome mint. Head of Sibyl Herophile right, hair elaborately decorated with jewels and enclosed in a sling and tied with bands / Sphinx seated right. Crawford 464/1; CRI 69; Sydenham 983; Carisia 10. Good VF, toned, areas of flat strike. From the Demetrios Armounta Collection. Ex Baldwin’s 57 (23 September 2008), lot 59.

Edited by MrMonkeySwag96
  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MrMonkeySwag96 said:

I’d like to own this denarius type but it’s difficult to find one that’s well struck. I own another type from this same moneyer depicting a Sphinx:

 

image.jpeg.81f33973e8c67188468ad98fcee3e230.jpeg
 

Thank you all, I am glad these posts are appreciated! I will try to post and make more in the next future, and I hope they will spark interest and start insightful discussions 🙂 

Also, nice one! I still need to get a coin with a Sphinx, I didn’t know there was a Carisius one that had it!!! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

A great post. This coin type was on my wish list for a long time and I was happy to grab an example. Not the best strike but nice enough and showing all the tools.  Great design on this type! and since Vulcan is not the easiest deity to find on coins, for the collectors who want to complete a 12 Olympians set, this is a good compromise. 

image.png.00bc9c3b6dd37bc3950ebc94637a3e0f.png

Regarding the other popular type, with the sphinx, I own one too, but this was not the best purchase I ever made. 

image.png.e2a58e765dc7487347c7687ed51e3816.png

Edited by ambr0zie
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

A great post. This coin type was on my wish list for a long time and I was happy to grab an example. Not the best strike but nice enough and showing all the tools.  Great design on this type! and since Vulcan is not the easiest deity to find on coins, for the collectors who want to complete a 12 Olympians set, this is a good compromise. 

image.png.00bc9c3b6dd37bc3950ebc94637a3e0f.png

Regarding the other popular type, with the sphinx, I own one too, but this was not the best purchase I ever made. 

image.png.e2a58e765dc7487347c7687ed51e3816.png

Nice ones!! I was lucky enough to find my coin in good enough conditions in a local coin shop in Rome (after I had missed this one a while ago that hammered for 1k. I later discovered that I had lost it to that very coin shop in Rome, what are the odds???)

EDIT: I wanted to add that the irony of this coin is that it almost always has a weak strike. For a coin representing the minting process, that is kinda funny 🙂

Edited by AncientCoinnoisseur
  • Like 2
  • Mind blown 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very well done, you’re a real artist. Bravo ! Just a precision: The instruments represented on the reverse of this Carasia denarius were for a long time considered as the production implements of monetary workshops. It is NOW believed that they are in fact only the tools associated with the god of metallurgy, Vulcan.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ocatarinetabellatchitchix said:

Very well done, you’re a real artist. Bravo ! Just a precision: The instruments represented on the reverse of this Carasia denarius were for a long time considered as the production implements of monetary workshops. It is NOW believed that they are in fact only the tools associated with the god of metallurgy, Vulcan.

Huh, I didn't know that! The pileus makes sense, since it is not exactly like a 'punch die', although we know that they used all these tools because museums have them displayed, so while they might represent the tools associated with Vulcan, they can very well represent both things (i.e. the pileus might in fact be a punch die made it to look like a pileus, and the other tools were in fact used during the minting process, so it could be a way to pay hommage to both the minting process and Vulcan himself!).

It is just my theory though 🙂 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted · Supporter

Great post and great graphics. Thank you. This was also on my "hit list" for some time and I noticed fluctuations in price , I guess dependent on how many were offered and how many people were looking for one at auction. I suggest this is a "rite of passage" coin for most collectors as it is so iconic.

image.png.516223c79001195881e3f8254faa7be5.pngimage.png.0ce9a9f2ad1c785c18ffa7b3076c2945.png

T. Carisius. Silver Denarius (3.89 g), 46 BC. Rome. MONETA behind, draped bust of Juno Moneta right. Reverse: T CARISIVS, coining tools: tongs, anvil with garlanded die above, and hammer; all within wreath tied at the top. Crawford 464/2; HCRI 70; Sydenham 982a; Carisia 1a. Some light porosity noted. NGC Photo certificate grade Ch XF; Strike: 4/5, Surface: 3/5. Now liberated from slab. Ex - Ira and Larry Goldberg. 
Ex The William Oldknow Collection.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Dafydd said:

Great post and great graphics. Thank you. This was also on my "hit list" for some time and I noticed fluctuations in price , I guess dependent on how many were offered and how many people were looking for one at auction. I suggest this is a "rite of passage" coin for most collectors as it is so iconic.

image.png.516223c79001195881e3f8254faa7be5.pngimage.png.0ce9a9f2ad1c785c18ffa7b3076c2945.png

T. Carisius. Silver Denarius (3.89 g), 46 BC. Rome. MONETA behind, draped bust of Juno Moneta right. Reverse: T CARISIVS, coining tools: tongs, anvil with garlanded die above, and hammer; all within wreath tied at the top. Crawford 464/2; HCRI 70; Sydenham 982a; Carisia 1a. Some light porosity noted. NGC Photo certificate grade Ch XF; Strike: 4/5, Surface: 3/5. Now liberated from slab. Ex - Ira and Larry Goldberg. 
Ex The William Oldknow Collection.

Thank you, and nice coin you have there! Such a happy looking Juno 🙂 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Before I sold my collection of Roman Republican coins, I had a nice trio of Carisius coins 😊 I do however think that the theory suggesting the reverse of RRC 464/2 being tools to mint coins is incorrect, its just a sales gimmick to increase the price of the type. I'm very convinced the reverse just has attributes to Vulcan.

 

588_1.jpg?maxwidth=1600&maxheight=1600

image00912.jpg

587_1.jpg?maxwidth=1600&maxheight=1600

Edited by Michael Stolt
  • Like 8
  • Heart Eyes 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Michael Stolt said:

Before I sold my collection of Roman Republican coins, I had a nice trio of Carisius coins 😊 I do however think that the theory suggesting the reverse of RRC 464/2 being tools to mint coins is incorrect, its just a sales gimmick to increase the price of the type. I'm very convinced the reverse just has attributes to Vulcan.

 

588_1.jpg?maxwidth=1600&maxheight=1600

image00912.jpg

587_1.jpg?maxwidth=1600&maxheight=1600

Nice trio you had there! Still, the obverse with Juno Moneta would make you think that the coin has some association with the coins themselves, given the correlation with Juno Moneta, the mint and the word for ‘coin’. I want to believe it’s a mix of both 😉

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/4/2024 at 3:03 PM, AncientCoinnoisseur said:

Hello everyone! 

This is my very first post here, and I hope it won't be my last! 🙂 I love ancient coins, and I especially love making infographics about coins and studying their story. Today I wanted to show you the first of a series of 'coin breakdowns' / infographics I made, using coins from my own collection. 

The one I present to you today is the 'meta-coin' of T. Carisius, showing the goddess 'Juno Moneta' on the obverse (from whom we got all the terms related to money) and the tools for minting money on the reverse. I hope you enjoy it, and let me know if you want me to post the other infographics from this work-in-progress series!

image.jpeg.5a05e84e2acabf37c4c411467f7e6bbe.jpeg

Wow, amazing presentation, so detailed and very informative! Absolutely love it, learned a ton - thank you!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted · Supporter

Great coins and thread. I'm with you, I want to believe they are the tools for making coins, but understand the current concensus is Vulcan's tools (which is still pretty rad). Either way, I've not read anything unequivocal either way, so am resigned to not being sure. 

 

2733142_1649690299.l-removebg-preview.png

Screenshot_20230102_123025-removebg-preview.png

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, AncientCoinnoisseur said:

Nice trio you had there! Still, the obverse with Juno Moneta would make you think that the coin has some association with the coins themselves, given the correlation with Juno Moneta, the mint and the word for ‘coin’. I want to believe it’s a mix of both 😉

Moneta is present on several other types, so nothing too uncommon seeing her name. If the reverse was associated with coins, I would like to think the design would have been different, perhaps a scene where coins are minted (like the voting scene on the Licinius Nerva type), or actual dies and coins, not just blacksmithing tools and Vulcans cap. image.png.7fe8f1059052fa8a98a755d5c2bc17f8.png

Here is a rare control mark in Phil Davis collection, that I'd consider closer related to coins, as it actually depicts them:

image.png.77b7e2786de1dc7859f14e2f6b31bcea.png

 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/6/2024 at 6:55 PM, AncientJoe said:

An excellent post and a warm welcome to this side of the coin internet!

Thank you all for the warm welcome and the additional information! I will post more infographics (and I just won 8 coins yesterday, so more cool breakdowns to come!)  

I don’t know if it is customary here to answer the comments one-by-one, I don’t know if this would clog the thread, but I read each and every one of you!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 7/4/2024 at 3:03 PM, AncientCoinnoisseur said:

Hello everyone! 

This is my very first post here, and I hope it won't be my last!

Welcome to Numis Forums!

Long ago the "tongs" of the Crepusius type were thought to be for picking up hot flans. Of course, if you think about it, or have ever used tongs or even pliers, you realize they couldn't do that job. (Plus, research no longer suggests flans were struck hot.) Those tongs might just be tool of Vulcan, but I don't think so. I think the "tongs" were used to hold the pile die. Lots of ancient dies are extant (over 100 are listed in Conii e scene di coniazone by Travaini and Bolis, in Italian) but almost all have been judged to be counterfeiter's dies. However that many be, they probably used technology similar to official mints. The counterfeiters dies are often short, a couple of inches, and rarely as long as six inches. Even the long ones have hardly enough room to hold by hand and if you imagine actually doing it, wouldn't you like to have some distance between your left hand hand holding the die and the heavy hammer repeatedly coming down hard? The tongs could be designed to hold the pile die.  That would allow the left hand to hold the die (even it was short) and protect the hand somewhat from the shock of the strike. Or, maybe there were two people involved, as in the photo of a modern reenactment (with a short pile die).

image.jpeg.b33e438dea677cdb6f757dd917ccf734.jpeg

There is a lot we don't know about ancient minting. 

Edited by Valentinian
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...