painting

[antwerpen2306]

may I show a painting of the 16/17/18 century ? It is for me also a part of my collection of ' antiquities ' and I am making now an inventory with explications for my daughter. What is your opinion ?

[DonnaML]

I'm not the boss here, but it certainly would be OK with me!

[JeandAcre]

@antwerpen2306, may I second and third that?  Glad it's still this early where you are; I'm Reallllly looking forward to this!

 

[JeandAcre]

...Honest, @antwerpen2306, this is only the first illustrated manuscript I found under this subject.

 

If memory begins to serve, there are plenty of comparable examples.  If I had pictures of my copper engravings of English castles by the Buck brothers, c. 1730s, I wouldn't blink at posting those.  ...Please, Please post this!

[JeandAcre]

...In the interests of full disclosure, during the initial, stoned phase of my undergrad career, I --just, Watch this-- majored in Art History, for at least a couple of quarters. 

...Following years of less formal study (and bookended by Humanities majors along comparable lines).  Faced with the prospect of having to thin the bookshelves a little, the art books are going Nowhere.  The breadth of your chronological range just makes the prospect of seeing the painting that much more fun.  ...Of Course it's an 'antiquity!'  Just, Get Over being so scared of the semantics!  :<}

[ominus1]

....well where's the damn painting @ Bro?!   ^^

Edited May 20 by ominus1

[antwerpen2306]

I am only a few hours here, but I want to show my first painting, it is te oldest and one of the most beautiful. It is the representation of a biblical scene : Rebecca ans Eliëzer at the water well: Genesis 24, 1-20 , dated about 1550.

The description will be for beginning next week.

 

Afmetingen : 88 cm x 57 cm.

Olieverf op paneel.

Periode : midden of derde kwart 16^de eeuw.

Voorstelling : Rebecca en Eliëzer bij de waterput.

[jtlart]

I like the painting but feel that the frame is a distraction that does not complement the artwork. Too much black around the edges.Those camels deserve more.

[antwerpen2306]

The frame is the original one as in use in that period. I have a second painting with a similar one of the middle of the 17 century. 

[JeandAcre]

The bright coloring strikes me as really distinctive.  Do you have an idea of where it's from?  If you made me hazard a guess, I'd venture maybe Venice.  But I'm not well enough acquainted with Venice to know what I'm talking about; Titian, for one, is nothing like this.

[Alegandron]

10 hours ago, jtlart said:

I like the painting but feel that the frame is a distraction that does not complement the artwork. Too much black around the edges.Those camels deserve more.

Agreed.  Hot Neon Pink frame would set it off perfectly.  🙂

 

[antwerpen2306]

@JeandAcre 2 possibilities, the museum on Antwerp said the Southern Netherlands- Antwerp- and Sothebys said the Northern , Amsterdam, I prefer Antwerp. 

[ominus1]

On 5/24/2024 at 7:06 AM, antwerpen2306 said:

frame i

 i dig the frame! 🙂

[ewomack]

@antwerpen2306, that's a beautiful painting! What a fantastic thing to have at hand to look at! The colors look very bright, so I'm guessing this was cleaned at some point in the last 10 - 20 years (cleaning in this context is a good thing, as long as it was done by a trained conservator). If it hasn't been cleaned by a trained conservator (never try to clean paintings yourself - you probably know that), then a cleaning may make the colors even brighter. Again, you probably know this, but it being on panel means it could easily warp with temperature and moisture conditions, which could lead to craquelure and possibly paint loss. I'm guessing you're not storing it in direct sunlight or in a place with wild temperature fluctuations? Sorry, I used to work in a conservation laboratory. I wasn't a conservator but I heard and picked up a lot of "side knowledge."

Again, it's a beautiful painting and it triggers my old conservation instincts! 😁

Edited May 25 by ewomack

[JeandAcre]

Yow!  Huge thanks, @antwerpen2306.  I may have just set a new personal record for the sheer distance by which I was 'off.'  And, Nope, my acquaintance with Dutch painting --until a full century later, anyway-- is equally nonexistent!  Thanks for the enlightenment.  Now I want to go trawling online for more examples of the mid-16th century.

[antwerpen2306]

@ominus1I understand you keep the frame ? It is normal, I have another painting with a similar frame about 100 years older and two contemporaneous of the same time.

@ewomack I also was surprised by the colors. I don't know of any cleaning the last 100 years. The painting is now on the same place since 1986 when we came in the house, the room is a little be dark but not to. It is in our living room, so the temperature and the moisture is about the same all the year, I hope. I think you have to give me some recommendations for later paintings.

@JeandAcreI knew the origine of these painting by family and I learned a lot of art history, an eternity ago, but it was very fascinating to do this work. I hope to give more explanations tomorrow, I Tried to copy my work in Flemish here to give you an idea, but it is impossible

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[antwerpen2306]

in the 16° century, Antwerp was one of the most important cultural centra. Many artists went to Italy and introduced the Renaissance coming back. Here we have a good example of this evolution. The subject of the painting changed : no more religious but different subjects like Bible scenes ... The environment and the persons were painted in the way as usual : landscapes for here, antic clothing as they imagined in that time, but there are also more direct indications to the Antiquity, as this details show : the jug with the relief : it is imitating an ancient jug with a typical antique relief. The dagger is a typical oriental model.

 

 the camels are looking like a horse, because nobody knew how they looked. One camel has a small medaillon, looking like a medusa shield for camels.

At left, the well is represented as a satyr, represented in the Roman way as a man with legs and a beard. 

.

We have now also a whole landscape represented, with a village and hills. This was unknown earlier.

I mention only a few details to show the difference between a painting of the 16° century an one of an earlier period.

 

.

 

[antwerpen2306]

I hope to have time to give my interpretation of this painting, 16° century, city view, mayge Bruges

[antwerpen2306]

sorry, tomorrow

[antwerpen2306]

It is a view, maybe from Bruges. Oil on panel, 42 cm x 32 cm. Sometimes, you can see about the same view now.

I think it is an early painting of the 16° century and it need some cleaning. I asked for a price and they said : 2250 € ( about 2500 US$ ), so I preferred not to clean  and buy some coins.

A last one for this period : oil on wood, 47.5 x 40 cm

[JeandAcre]

These are absolutely brilliant, @antwerpen2306.  It's easy to imagine the last one, and ones like it, having been a signifcant influence of Claude Lorrain, in the following century.  I love the tree branches bending in the wind.  

...It's fun to consider the origins of whole genres, like landscape and (since I'm a Cezanne freak) still lifes.  Opens a whole dimension to their appreciation.

[antwerpen2306]

@JeandAcreart is beautiful, I spended ours on this and the other paintings. Often I regret to not know more of this art, but I had only 2 hours of lessons on art in my first year at the university. I understand it, I choised Antiquity.

[JeandAcre]

@antwerpen2306, the good news is that you can easily 'make up ffor lost time!'  I briefly majored in Art History as an undergraduate, but by contrast, never had a course in medieval history in my life.

[antwerpen2306]

I had in my first year 66/67# at the University of leuven Greek and Roman history,historiography, philosophy...for 3/4quarterof the time and 1/4 other historical periods, art, later philosophy.... I studiedalso a master in ancient archeology and a bachelor Egyptean and Coptic languages. All this was possible, once you had a bachalor, in that time named a kandidatuur in Flemish, then you had only to follow the specialities.

 

 

 

 

 

[antwerpen2306]

so, back home in Antwerp for some days. I regret really to not have the possibilities of a computer in my other home, but my wife says all the time I am spending to much time.

Beginning with the painting : 17 century, 47 cm x 36 cm, oil on canvas representing Christ as Salvator Mundi in a flower wreath, more details tomorrow as it is already 8 o clock in the evening now.