Help to identify old and strange coin or token.

[gransuricata]

Thank you, Ryro, and I gladly accept your apology.
I am simply dabbling in the collection of these types of coins and I can be deceived. Enter this forum, on the recommendation of several European numismatists. My intention is to know if the Greek, Roman or Iberian coins that I obtain are real or not. Thank you so much

[ambr0zie]

@gransuricata- I understand you are from Argentina.

It's a great pleasure to virtually meet a collector from overseas (I am from Romania, so Maradona vs Hagi - most likely these names are familiar to you 🙂 )

I can guarantee you that Ryro is a great guy and a skilled collector, who has been studying and has great knowledge. I am honored to consider him my virtual friend and I learned many things from him.

The problem nowadays is that many people try to promote forgeries, with the intention of selling them. On this forum I haven't seen any attempt. But I am a member of some facebook groups and I see daily idiots trying to sell crappy forgeries hoping that somebody is naive enough.

I don't think you had this intention and from the way you presented the coin, I see you are also a collector, NOT a person trying to trick newstarters. This is my impression. I hope you will stay here longer to prove me right.

Also I am not a native English speaker myself and my English is not perfect. And it will never be. Sometimes we don't manage to express our ideas and we seem fishy to native English speakers.

But I can tell you one thing and I am sure our forum colleagues agree with me - any collector who is polite, willing to learn and friendly is very welcome here.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by ambr0zie

[Restitutor]

Glad to see how well everyone has come together 🙂 Welcome to Numis Forums, @gransuricata, happy to have you here! 

[gransuricata]

ambr0zie, once again very grateful and honored to participate in your forum. I should also mention that I have my home in Argentina, but I am a native of Uruguay and my idol is Luiz Suarez. A big hug.

[gransuricata]

Hi Restitutor. Thank you very much for your message and the pleasure and honor in participating in this forum, it is mine.

[gransuricata]

New query.
As everyone knows, I'm just studying and researching all ancient coins and for that reason anyone who can help me.
After sending an email to a Macedonian institution asking the meaning of the phrase; "AʘƩI", I received as an answer this:
"AʘƩI" - A DZE SI
Adzeians - adzeo-Danai's (Athenians-danai's)

Can someone tell me in English, what does A DZE SI mean or what does it mean, "Adzeians - adzeo-Danai's". Thank you so much.

[DonnaML]

5 hours ago, Ryro said:

I just ask that you don't post too many "what is it?" and "what is it worth?" questions

 

Don't worry, I haven't seen paschka here. Yet!

[Romismatist]

A couple more thoughts to add. In terms of the metallurgical analysis, some forgers have been known to strike modern forgeries on genuine ancient coins, most likely "slugs" that are of such poor quality as to not have much worth above melt value. In addition, the technology is such that more sophisticated forgers will strike fakes with the correct weight as well. These fakes are typically harder to nail down as forgeries. That's why things such as style are important to take into consideration as well.

Collecting ancients is definitely a minefield for the beginner, and there is a lot to learn about genuine and fake coins. At some point, all of us have been taken in by forgeries - I myself have a "black cabinet" with several fakes that I've inadvertently purchased over the years. However, over time, you learn to spot most fakes. I'm sure that there are still several undiscovered ones within the collections of many of us in this forum. That's why purchasing from respected dealers or auction houses is a recommended avenue to those starting out in the hobby.

[gransuricata]

Thank you Romismatist. I find wisdom in his words. Now I must investigate all the coins that I have bought. Maybe you can disappoint me. But you say well; "We've all been fooled at some point." I have a long way to go.

[ambr0zie]

http://www.makedoniaese.com/history lesson.htm

This might be a good start.

6 hours ago, DonnaML said:

Don't worry, I haven't seen paschka here. Yet!

Can I play his role? please?

I promise I will only post easy coins and I will be succinct, I don't want to waste anyone's time. Just some poor photos, "ID HELP" and then "Rare?". Please please please!

[NathanB]

The members here appear to have let the angels of their better nature overpower their spidey senses. 

I think this will probably have to be my last word on this particular matter.  However, for future reference, and speaking in general terms rather than in relation to this particular thread, I would like to draw everyone's attention to a few things, best exemplified by this eBay ad for a fake ancient coin.

Note the manner of presentation:

• calipers: check
• scale: check
• picture of the rim: check
• absolutely horrible, unrealistic overall appearance: check
• specs, including the weight(!): check

eBay has literally hundreds of such ads for modern fake coins at any one time.  In the past, I have even seen orange calipers in the pictures.  Now imagine the seller or maker of this coin saying "a lot of work went into producing it, so it must be an ancient piece."  Unscrupulous sellers try to overwhelm would-be buyers through the use of technical presentation, Nigerian-Prince-email-style diction, and verbal and visual red herrings.

Speaking in very general terms, just because someone says they are not selling anything doesn't mean that they aren't doing research on behalf of someone who is.  A person who is interested in ancient coins may come here to learn about them.  But a person who wants help pretty much exclusively with feedback on (fake) ancient coins in their possession, which they then defend as authentic (before being forced to back off), is someone to beware of.

Edited July 7, 2022 by NathanB

[Romismatist]

The reverse of this piece reminds me of a cruder version of a nomos from Bruttium Kaulonia (although the ethnic is different)

While the obverse is a crude representation of Athena from an Athens tetradrachm. Makes me think that it is a mule fantasy piece.

[Romismatist]

Here's a current example of Greek forgeries for sale on EBay (noted as such in the listing) which might fool an undiscerning collector if sold more unscrupulously... note the identical wear on identical coins despite the different flans...

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Romismatist

[gransuricata]

16 minutes ago, Romismatist said:

The reverse of this piece reminds me of a cruder version of a nomos from Bruttium Kaulonia (although the ethnic is different)

While the obverse is a crude representation of Athena from an Athens tetradrachm. Makes me think that it is a mule fantasy piece.

I found several similarities and characteristics in other coins. Perhaps they wanted to fake a hybrid.

[gransuricata]

¿Qué podrían decirme de esta moneda?

[shanxi]

Antoninus Pius, Alexandria

https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/13544

Edited July 27, 2022 by shanxi