Thefts from the BM and ignored

[NewStyleKing]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66543589

In recent weeks the tale of long term thefts by a curator at the BM that was seemingly ignored by "the management". Rumour has it eBay was used as a selling vehicle!

A bit like the baby murders at The Countess of Chester hospital blocked and ignored over years by "The management"

 

What do management do? Attend champagne receptions, BS 100% and when it gets difficult  blank it and take a dip in de nile!

[Salomons Cat]

Quote

The Telegraph has reported that between 1,000 and 2,000 items are missing, according to sources, and that the figure is "closer to 2,000".

This obviously raises questions about the museum's record-keeping and security.

That's a high number. Whoever stole these 2000 pieces of whatever could be one of the top rated antique coins sellers on ebay now.
Because I don't know what else could be inside the BM in such a high number?

Edited August 22, 2023 by Salomons Cat

[NewStyleKing]

Roman cameos and gems....... But I volunteer to oversee the Athenian coin collections.........although I have coins they don't!

[Salomons Cat]

Oh, I had to read it again:

Quote

treasures, which dated from the 15th Century BC to the 19th Century AD,

What could that be 🤔
The only thing that I can think of are coins. As usual 😂

I'm also quite sure that I have a coin that the British Museum doesn't have.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Salomons Cat

[Phil Anthos]

"Rumour has it eBay was used as a selling vehicle!"

I'm shocked!!!  😲

[Rand]

BM story has been the final straw in changing my perception about museums as undisputed public' goods'.

We need museums, of course, but is it time for them to evolve? They cannot be bottomless storage places for everything found in the ground from the millennia past and what would be 'the present' for future generations… over millions of years ahead (I am an optimist).

Public museums are relatively new from a historical perspective, and some evolution is expected.

Letting the public be 'custodians' of some artefacts, such as coins, may not be unreasonable. Scientists do not need endless duplicates of the same coins.

For most research purposes, academics need good images and a few high-quality metrics (weight, size, metal analysis). Would it be more helpful to obtain those, sell the coins to the public and use the money to keep a universal coin registry of the coins, learning from them and knowing who holds them when more analyses are needed? I am sure many collectors would not mind helping researchers.

[Limes]

1 hour ago, Salomons Cat said:

Oh, I had to read it again:

What could that be 🤔
The only thing that I can think of are coins. As usual 😂

I'm also quite sure that I have a coin that the British Museum doesn't have.

"Police are now investigating the theft of items including gold, jewellery and gems of semi-precious stones."

Its all in the news article. This too:

"Some of them ended up on eBay, being sold for considerably less than their actual estimated value."

"None of the treasures, which dated from the 15th Century BC to the 19th Century AD, had recently been on display and had been kept primarily for academic and research purposes, the museum said. The majority of them were kept in a storeroom." 

the BM has thousand and thousands of items, many on display, even more in storage. Its also not Fort Knox, so its not a surprise that stuff gets stolen. The article also has a nice overview of earlier thefts. Its impossible to be open to public, and get nothing stolen, or even destroyed/broken. Same goes for your staff. People are people, and the circumstances of thrustworthy staff members can also change that they are more open to stealing. We dont know what happened. Also, the thefts took place over a long period of time, so its even harder to notice. I dont expect anyone to count all.the millions of items every night, to see if something is missing....

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Limes

[Limes]

8 minutes ago, Rand said:

BM story has been the final straw in changing my perception about museums as undisputed public' goods'.

We need museums, of course, but is it time for them to evolve? They cannot be bottomless storage places for everything found in the ground from the millennia past and what would be 'the present' for future generations… over millions of years ahead (I am an optimist).

Public museums are relatively new from a historical perspective, and some evolution is expected.

Letting the public be 'custodians' of some artefacts, such as coins, may not be unreasonable. Scientists do not need endless duplicates of the same coins.

For most research purposes, academics need good images and a few high-quality metrics (weight, size, metal analysis). Would it be more helpful to obtain those, sell the coins to the public and use the money to keep a universal coin registry of the coins, learning from them and knowing who holds them when more analyses are needed? I am sure many collectors would not mind helping researchers.

Yes and no. For coins, well, maybe, but not all coins of course. Some coin displays are nice and add value to a historical display about e.g. Greece. And then there are items that I cant see how they are to be given 'to the public', e.g. larger items,.or very fragile items. 

But I do agree that the use of storage of so many items puzzles me too.. Is it really necessary? For 'Scientific research', yes, but I do wonder of all those artefacts are worthy of such research. Well, Im not familiar with the world of research and museum storages, so its just a thought, an uneducated opinion. I think more learned members may elaborate on this. Ill stop now. 

[Salomons Cat]

3 minutes ago, Limes said:

"Police are now investigating the theft of items including gold, jewellery and gems of semi-precious stones."

Its all in the news article. This too:

"Some of them ended up on eBay, being sold for considerably less than their actual estimated value."

"None of the treasures, which dated from the 15th Century BC to the 19th Century AD, had recently been on display and had been kept primarily for academic and research purposes, the museum said. The majority of them were kept in a storeroom." 

This could still mean that it were 1997 gold coins, 1 piece of jewellery and 1 semi-precious stone… 

Just kidding. You‘re right - it was a hard day at work and my attention span is really not good anymore and I didn‘t read the article well enough.

10 minutes ago, Rand said:

Public museums are relatively new from a historical perspective, and some evolution is expected.

[…]

For most research purposes, academics need good images and a few high-quality metrics (weight, size, metal analysis). Would it be more helpful to obtain those, sell the coins to the public and use the money to keep a universal coin registry of the coins, learning from them and knowing who holds them when more analyses are needed? I am sure many collectors would not mind helping researchers.

Cataloguing coins and giving access to high quality images would certainly be great. Auction houses do exactly this all the time and the pictures and metrics are saved in databases… At the same time, most coins in museums are probably stored in some boxes get forgotten.

So, auctions could actually be more beneficial for the public than museums when it concerns coins?

[David Atherton]

3 hours ago, NewStyleKing said:

A bit like the baby murders at The Countess of Chester hospital blocked and ignored over years by "The management"

Don't you mean a bit like an auction house trafficking in stolen/looted coins with fake provenances?

[John Conduitt]

Maybe this curator was not in it for the money, given he was selling everything so cheaply. Maybe he is a hero of artefact liberation 🤣

[DLTcoins]

And it just keeps coming. In this one, at least, an antiquities dealer is the hero rather than the villain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/23/ittai-gradel-british-museum-theft-evidence/

[Deinomenid]

Telegraph's cartoonist on it.

[Harry G]

Apparently the BM have managed to recover approx. 2000 items from the theft

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66626619

[Deinomenid]

6 hours ago, Harry G said:

Apparently the BM have managed to recover approx. 2000 items from the theft

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66626619

Sadly  not. The article  says "some" of the 2000 objects have been found. But as the BM couldn't be bothered to catalogue so many of  its  items it's going to be hard to  prove they even owned them! It's  incredible really. Why a former politician  is  in charge of a major British museum is beyond me.