Papius & Sulla's Last Days

[Sulla80]

My Latest "Notes" page on this coin is available here:

https://www.sullacoins.com/post/the-last-days-of-sulla

an RR denarius from the year after Sulla relinquished the dictatorship.

 

There are more than 231 varieties of this type with only 2 struck by more than 1 die.  Post your coins of L. Papius.  This coin features Obv: subsellium (curule chair) and Rev: sella (seat or bench))

 

[Limes]

Great coin, and I especially like the griffon. And thanks for the write up, I enjoyed reading it. Unfortunately, I don't have any coins of Sulla, or Papius to share. 

[Dafydd]

This is one currently resting in distilled water!

 

TRADE GUILD BEHIND HEAD
SEAR 311
EX KOLNER

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

3.37g
Head of Q Pompeius Rufus right (Consul)
Head of Sulla (Rufus' grandfather) right "Q POM RVFI / RVFVS COS"
Cr 434/1
Pompeia 4

The above was one of my realistic bucket list coins.

I might have a really terrible example of the L. Papius, picked out of a cheap-o pick bag.  However, it might also be one of the other similar looking issues of the time. Mine is not serrate.

[DonnaML]

I really like this issue. Here's my example:

Roman Republic, L. Papius, AR Serrate Denarius, 79 BCE. Obv. Head of Juno Sospita right, wearing goat skin tied under chin; control-symbol of lyre behind/ Rev. Gryphon prancing right, control-symbol of lyre-key below, L. PAPI in exergue. Crawford 384/1 (see also Crawford Vol. II Plate LXVII, control-symbol pair 127 & p. 788), RSC I Papia 1, Sear RCV I 311 (ill.), Harlan, RRM I Ch. 7 at pp. 32-35, BMCRR Rome 2977-3095 [control-symbol pair of lyre and lyre-key is not listed in BMCRR]. 19 mm., 3.79 g., 9 h. [Double die match to two examples depicted at

https://www.bonannocoins.com/l_papius/l_papi_coins.php?type_id=127.00 .]

It took me a while to figure out that the reverse symbol was a lyre key, forming a natural pair with the lyre on the obverse. But it really doesn't look so different from similar impements still used today:

As @Sulla80 points out in his linked blog post, the website at https://bonannocoins.com/l_papius/l_papius_db.php  has photos of many of the pairs of control-symbols. The illustrations in Crawford, at Vol. II Plates LXVI-LXVII, are drawings, not photos.  I also concur in @Sulla80's recommendation of Professor Yarrow's blog post at https://livyarrow.org/digital-resources/papius-pairs/ , which discusses the different types of pairs, in terms of the nature of the relationship between the two. She believes that there are probably at least 246 pairs. I think that Republican control symbols like those used in this issue can be underrated. People aren't necessarily aware of the extent to which they can give you a glimpse of daily life and ordinary objects in ancient Rome.  (By the way, Professor Yarrow includes a photo of the lyre & lyre key combination, but suggests that the latter is actually a plectrum. I wrote to her to express my opinion that a plectrum is something different, and is used to pluck strings to play an instrument, rather than to tighten the strings like a key. I think I probably persuaded her.)

Edited July 23, 2023 by DonnaML

[maridvnvm]

I have too many examples of the Papius types. I don't want to kill the thread with them. The main reason for believing there to be at least 246 die pairs is that one die pair has CCXLVI on each side.

James Bonanno illustrates or cites 232 die pairs, building on Crawford's 211. This indicates that 21 die pairs have emerged in recent years.

Here are 2 from my collection that were unknown to Crawford.

Obv:– Head of Juno Sospita right, wearing goat skin tied under chin. Behind head, Shoe.
Rev:– Gryphon running right; in ex., L. PAPI.; in field, Sandal
Minted in Rome from . B.C. 79.
Reference(s) – RSC Papia 1. RRC 384/1. RCTV 311.
Symbol variety – RRC -. Babelon -. BMCRR -.
3.78g. 19.71 mm. 180 degrees.

An unpublished symbol pair with five examples currently known. This is likely the best of the five examples. (Richard Schaefer)

and one that I regularly trot out in such cuircumstances

Obv:– Head of Juno Sospita right, wearing goat skin tied under chin. Behind head, Dolphin wrapped around anchor.
Rev:– Gryphon running right; in ex., L. PAPI.; in field, Hippocamp
Minted in Rome from . B.C. 79.
Reference(s) – RSC Papia 1. RRC 384/1. RCTV 311.
Symbol variety – RRC -. Babelon -. BMCRR -.

A previously unknown symbol pair and the only known example as far as I have been able to confirm.

[Marsyas Mike]

Very interesting thread (and article on your site) @Sulla80

Here is my only one - it has a chisel and a hammer (carpenter's tools):

Roman Republic       Denarius  L. Papius  (79 B.C.)  Rome Mint Trade Guild: Carpenters Head of Juno Sospita right, wearing goat's skin; chisel behind / L PAPI in ex. Gryphon springing right; hammer below. Crawford 384/1, type 30; Sydenham 773; Papia 1. (3.60 grams / 17 mm) eBay Mar. 2019

Here is an imitation of some sort.  A while back I posted this on CT, where @red_spork was a big help:  https://www.cointalk.com/threads/rr-l-papius-denarius-geto-dacian-monetary-imitations.306498/

Geto-Dacian (?) Imitation Roman Republic Denarius L. Papius (c. 79 B.C.)

Head of Juno Sospita right wearing goat's skin; symbol behind (upside-down cauldron?) / Gryphon springing right; symbol below (knife?).  Sim. Crawford 384/1 (for symbols, see Plate LXVI 105); Papia 1. (4.37 grams / 18 mm) eBay Nov. 2017  

 

[Sulla80]

6 hours ago, Marsyas Mike said:

Very interesting thread (and article on your site) @Sulla80

Here is my only one - it has a chisel and a hammer (carpenter's tools):

Roman Republic       Denarius  L. Papius  (79 B.C.)  Rome Mint Trade Guild: Carpenters Head of Juno Sospita right, wearing goat's skin; chisel behind / L PAPI in ex. Gryphon springing right; hammer below. Crawford 384/1, type 30; Sydenham 773; Papia 1. (3.60 grams / 17 mm) eBay Mar. 2019

Here is an imitation of some sort.  A while back I posted this on CT, where @red_spork was a big help:  https://www.cointalk.com/threads/rr-l-papius-denarius-geto-dacian-monetary-imitations.306498/

Geto-Dacian (?) Imitation Roman Republic Denarius L. Papius (c. 79 B.C.)

Head of Juno Sospita right wearing goat's skin; symbol behind (upside-down cauldron?) / Gryphon springing right; symbol below (knife?).  Sim. Crawford 384/1 (for symbols, see Plate LXVI 105); Papia 1. (4.37 grams / 18 mm) eBay Nov. 2017  

 

The Geto Dacian imitation is especially awesome!

[Marsyas Mike]

Bringing up this thread again because I landed another one of these - it has a sistrum (a kind of rattle associated with Isis) as the obverse control.  It is so large it seems more a part of the design, rather than a measly control symbol!

Roman Republic Denarius Serratus L. Papius (79 B.C.) Rome Mint Trade Guild: Unknown Head of Juno Sospita wearing goat's skin right, sistrum behind / Griffin leaping right, plate of fruit below, L· PAPI in exergue Crawford 384/1, symbol 91; Papia 1; Sydenham 773. (3.75 grams / 18 x 17 mm) eBay August 2023  

Control Symbol/Die-Match: Áureo & Calicó Auction 263; Lot 1077; 10.2014 (Wildwinds example)

Agora Auctions Sale 101; Lot 284; 20.07.2021

Control Symbol Match (only): Soler y Llach Subasta 1127; Lot 505; 14.06.2022

Here are the die-matches I found: