Captch Posted June 9, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 9, 2023 Hey all, I'm going through my collection and was reminded that my example of this coin: https://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=304594 isn't referenced in Schlumberger's Numismatique de l'Orient latin. Does anyone have a copy of Malloy or Metcalf that can double check that the reference is correct and share what the D-S-F-T is all about? Here's my version of the coin by the way. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captch Posted June 9, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted June 9, 2023 @Edessa since you just posted about medieval Antiochean coinage, I'm taking the liberty of @ing you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edessa Posted June 9, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2023 50 minutes ago, Captch said: @Edessa since you just posted about medieval Antiochean coinage, I'm taking the liberty of @ing you... Glad to oblige. Yes, the attribution looks correct. Metcalf says D-S-F-T stands for "Domine, salvum fac Tancredum" = God Save King Tancred. Both sources note that this issue of the third type is frequently overstruck on re-used flans of the second type: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=495250 There is a good chance that this might be your under-type. Metcalf also notes that some of the third type were overstruck on the first type. https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=473586 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broucheion Posted June 9, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 9, 2023 Hi @Captch, Here is the listing in Malloy’s Coins of the Crusader States 1098-1291 : - Broucheion 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captch Posted June 9, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted June 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, Edessa said: Yes, the attribution looks correct. Thank you so much! I assume that it's St. Peter that's depicted on the obverse. 4 minutes ago, Edessa said: this issue of the third type is frequently overstruck on re-used flans of the second type That makes sense with Schlumberger's argument about the second type - that maybe it was a little too daring to depict Tancred in local dress and cause a stir. I will have to see if the dots below St. Peter's cross looks like any of the words stamped on the obverse of that second type. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captch Posted June 9, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted June 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Broucheion said: Here is the listing Thank you so much! This is awesome. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captch Posted June 9, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted June 9, 2023 (edited) @Broucheion It looks like my coin is in Schlumberger after all from the note you attached, just on a different plate than all of Tancred's other coins. If I follow what he wrote in that section correctly, that's because there is (was?) some debate as to where the final coins of Tancred's were minted, since he also was prince of Galilee. So that coin gets stuck into the section dealing with secondary baronies of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, since it's possible they could have been minted in Tiberias. Confusing... Edited June 9, 2023 by Captch 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth77 Posted June 9, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 9, 2023 There was some debate about assigning these to Galilee but there are two problems with this attribution: 1. their pattern of distribution is fully northern Syrian and coastal, so radiating from Antioch 2. there is no copper-based monetary system at Jerusalem at this point, so the introduction of such a system by a vassal of the king in his domain at this early stage is very unlikely This system of pseudo-Byzantine coinage was in place in Syria though even before the Crusaders arrived, some of the coppers that had been traditionally assigned to Trebizond (and still are by some auction houses) are in fact Syrian variations of the folles of the 11th century. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edessa Posted June 9, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2023 Here is my example. Crusader States, Principality of Antioch. Tancred. Regent, AD 1101-1112. Æ Follis (24mm, 4.89g, 6h). Third type. Obv: Nimbate figure of St. Peter standing facing, raising hand in benediction and holding long cross; [S/P/Ε]-TRVS across fields. Rev: Cross; Đ-S/F-Ŧ in quarters. Latin acronym of "Domine, salvum fac Tancredum" = God Save King Tancred. Ref: Metcalf, Crusades 71; CCS 6. Near Very Fine, green patina, overstruck on an earlier issue, probably of the second type. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted June 9, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 9, 2023 (I'm just impressed by anyone who has Schlumberger! I'm sure he'd be a fascinating complement to Malloy, not just in this instance.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broucheion Posted June 9, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 9, 2023 Hi @JeandAcre, A PDF of Schiumberger's "Numismatique de l'Orient latin" (1878) is available free of charge via the Internet Archive at https://archive.org/details/numismatiquedelo00schl/ - Broucheion 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted June 10, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 10, 2023 (edited) Huge thanks, @Broucheion! Duly bookmarked. (Edit:) But no, @Captch, if you have any interest in pursuing the series, you're likely to want to find a copy of Malloy, Coins of the Crusader States; yep, in print. I only have the first of two editions, going back to 1994. But within the confines of a full-scale, bound reference, Malloy was very good at keeping up to date with the latest research from numismatic journals, including (to wallow in the obvious) hoard evidence. Edited June 10, 2023 by JeandAcre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captch Posted June 10, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 @JeandAcre duly noted. It's frustrating as a new collector that secondary sources are so much harder to find than the coins themselves 🙂. I've been able to make pretty good use of my school's ILL program, but sometimes I need a reference ASAP! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted June 10, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 10, 2023 @Captch, if I run into a copy somewhere online, I'll write you here. Right, all I have of Malloy is the first edition, which is all I feel any need of. There might be other, cheaper copies of that around; one can hope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edessa Posted June 11, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted June 11, 2023 Looks like Kolbe & Fanning have a Second Edition for $110 plus shipping. Brooklyn Gallery has one on eBay for $77 plus shipping. Not too many listngs out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted June 11, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted June 11, 2023 8 hours ago, Edessa said: ooks like Kolbe & Fanning have a Second Edition for $110 plus shipping. Brooklyn Gallery has one on eBay for $77 plus shipping. Not too many listngs out there. Allen Berman still has a stack of the 2nd edition of Malloy's Coins of the Crusader States and sells them for 75 USD: http://www.bermania.com/toppage1.htm . He is very knowledgeable about medieval coins and a pleasure to deal with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrachyEnjoyer Posted June 16, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 16, 2023 On 6/9/2023 at 6:35 PM, JeandAcre said: (I'm just impressed by anyone who has Schlumberger! I'm sure he'd be a fascinating complement to Malloy, not just in this instance.) I have some of the crusader works including Schulmberger. If anyone would like photographs of pages, please ask. I al happy to help 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamnaskires Posted June 16, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 16, 2023 Perhaps worth mentioning here that David Ruckser's Coins of the Crusaders is also available for free online, at academia.edu. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted June 16, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 16, 2023 Many thanks, @TheTrachyEnjoyer and @Kamnaskires. I for one don't have anything ugent at the moment, but that's only this moment! Bookmarking this page. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.