Medieval Monday

[Roerbakmix]

5 hours ago, Severus Alexander said:

new sceat, Series X "Wodan Head".  A bit grotty but purchased cheap in a group lot and provenanced to the ground on the Isle of Wight (a PAS coin) :

Maybe @Roerbakmix can help me with cleaning this one.  Maybe.  But I see enough silver to suppose it may show promise.

That’s a neat coin, and scored for a very nice price. I totally forgot about the Timeline auction. 

I doubt it will clean well; difficult to see on those pictures. 
 

here’s my new series x:

[John Conduitt]

15 minutes ago, Roerbakmix said:

here’s my new series x:

I've been looking for one of these in as good condition as this for a very long time. Plenty of Series X coins come up but they're either not in great condition or the prices run away. I'm hoping prices have softened a little so one might come my way!

[Roerbakmix]

5 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

I've been looking for one of these in as good condition as this for a very long time. Plenty of Series X coins come up but they're either not in great condition or the prices run away. I'm hoping prices have softened a little so one might come my way!

Thanks. This one was from MPO. If I remember correctly I bought it for 600 including %, which is a fair price. The minor earth deposits don’t bother me, and are probably easy to remove. 

[Severus Alexander]

9 hours ago, Roerbakmix said:

That’s a neat coin, and scored for a very nice price. I totally forgot about the Timeline auction. 

I doubt it will clean well; difficult to see on those pictures. 
 

here’s my new series x:

Wow, @Roerbakmix, what a fabulous coin!!!  I like it better with the deposits left on, they don't bother me at all either.

Thanks for the thoughts on my cheapie example.  (I see it's a lot scarcer with the beast facing left, so at least it's a rare cheapie. 🙃)  The glimmer of silver gave me some hope of cleaning possibilities compared to my caked-over K/N mule, but you would know a lot better than I do.  Yeah, 50 quid + juice is pretty good for 2 sceats, even ones like those two were.  I think it's neat they were found on the Isle of Wight; plus I didn't have any continental sceats.  Box checked at a bargain price, I always like that.

[John Conduitt]

1 minute ago, Severus Alexander said:

Wow, @Roerbakmix, what a fabulous coin!!!  I like it better with the deposits left on, they don't bother me at all either.

Thanks for the thoughts on my cheapie example.  (I see it's a lot scarcer with the beast facing left, so at least it's a rare cheapie. 🙃)  The glimmer of silver gave me some hope of cleaning possibilities compared to my caked-over K/N mule, but you would know a lot better than I do.  Yeah, 50 quid + juice is pretty good for 2 sceats, even ones like those two were.  I think it's neat they were found on the Isle of Wight; plus I didn't have any continental sceats.  Box checked at a bargain price, I always like that.

Yes those are good buys. A coin would have to be in a far superior condition to beat something with a findspot.

[UkrainiiVityaz]

Henry III (1216-1272) penny minted at Canterbury S-1372vf a longcross coin minted late in the reign of Henry III.

Edward I (1272-1307) first coinage penny again minted at Canterbury very early in the reign of Edward I.  Both of these pieces were part of the Colchester hoard of 1969 - a hoard of over 14k pennies consisting of mostly voided longcross coinage but also had some very rare and early coins.  The coins were surmised to have been buried by a Jewish merchant when Edward I announced a pogrom against Jewish residents in England.

[John Conduitt]

48 minutes ago, UkrainiiVityaz said:

Edward I (1272-1307) first coinage penny again minted at Canterbury very early in the reign of Edward I.  Both of these pieces were part of the Colchester hoard of 1969 - a hoard of over 14k pennies consisting of mostly voided longcross coinage but also had some very rare and early coins.  The coins were surmised to have been buried by a Jewish merchant when Edward I announced a pogrom against Jewish residents in England.

Nice coins. The Colchester Hoards are interesting. The merchant(s) seems to have got some of his coins directly from the mint and buried them in 3 separate containers (with depositions in 1237, 1256 and 1278). This Class 6 was very scarce before the hoard was found and only one was known by this moneyer - but there were 1,916 in the hoard. So if you have a Class 6 struck by Ion at Bury St Edmunds it's likely to be from the Colchester II Hoard 1969.

Henry III Posthumous Issue (under Edward I) Class 6 Long Cross Penny, 1272-1275

Bury St Edmunds. Silver, 18mm, 1.53g. Crude bust holding sceptre with III to left, naturalistic hair curls like an Edward I bust; no initial mark, legend begins at 11 o'clock; HENRICVS REX III. Long cross, Ion moneyer; ION- O(N)-SAN-TAD. (S 1377). From the Colchester II Hoard 1969.

[JeandAcre]

@UkrainiiVityaz and @John Conduitt, probably no surprise, but I'm especially liking your initial issues of Edward I.  

I have one that was bought too long ago to have pics.  No great loss, since it doesn't compare favorably to either of yours.  From here, there's an ongoing element of mystery regarding the contrast of this issue with the strikes of the Henry III long crosses, and Edward's New Coinage (thank you, from 1279), that bookend it.  @UkrainiiVityaz, regardless of the exact occasion of the Colchester Hoard(/s), I'm having to think about what even wealthy Jews were dealing with prior to Edward's pogrom.  Thank you, he had precedent, notably going back to the massacre at York, apparently in celebration of Richard I's coronation.  ...History is not for wimps.

Edited June 22, 2022 by JeandAcre

[Roerbakmix]

14 hours ago, Severus Alexander said:

Wow, @Roerbakmix, what a fabulous coin!!!  I like it better with the deposits left on, they don't bother me at all either.

Thanks for the thoughts on my cheapie example.  (I see it's a lot scarcer with the beast facing left, so at least it's a rare cheapie. 🙃)  The glimmer of silver gave me some hope of cleaning possibilities compared to my caked-over K/N mule, but you would know a lot better than I do.  Yeah, 50 quid + juice is pretty good for 2 sceats, even ones like those two were.  I think it's neat they were found on the Isle of Wight; plus I didn't have any continental sceats.  Box checked at a bargain price, I always like that.

Your series X isFeveile. Series X and coin circulation in Ribe.pdf indeed the scarcer variety with the fantastic beast to the left. Note that there is a very comprehensive study on the series X (attached volume I which covers the theory, and volume II with the plates and die-study). Also attached an article by Feveile on series X. 

Feveile. Series X and coin circulation in Ribe.pdf Barrett. An analysis of the series X or Wodan monster sceattas. Some implications for trade and exchange in the 8th century AD (volume II).pdf

 

Also, @Severus Alexander, could you share your K/N mule again? I think I remember it, and believe that coin can be cleaned with some success. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Roerbakmix

[John Conduitt]

It's that time again.

'Winetavern Street’ Jeton, 1250-1300London. Pewter, 0.79g. Double-headed eagle. Shield with barry of nine (Mitchiner-Skinner Series D46). Ex Barry Woodside.

[Curtisimo]

Medieval Monday!!!! Here is a Crusader coin I picked up last year that I was extremely happy with.

Crusaders, Duchy of Athens
Regency of Helena Angelina for Guy II de la Roche (AD 1287-1291)
BI Denier Tournois, Thebes mint, struck ca. AD 1287-1288(?)
Dia.: 19 mm
Wt.: 0.82 g
Obv.: + ⦂ ThEBE ⦂ CIVIS ⦂ Chateau tournois
Rev.: + ⦂ G ⦂ DVX ⦂ ATENES ⦂ Cross pattee
Ref.: Malloy 86, Tzamalis GR105

[JeandAcre]

@John Conduitt, that jeton is truly blowing my head off.  I've never seen a jeton before that was any earlier than the Edward penny type or 14th-c. French varieties.

I had to try looking up the coats of arms, proceeding from Cecil Humphery-Smith, Anglo-Norman Armory Two to what was easily findable online.  If these happen to be intended as English coats, the ones they most nearly correspond to are relatively minor families, with no obvious connection to London.  From Humphery-Smith:

Barry or and gules fretty argent, for Le Weede (that's his given name) Barnaige, appearing in Walford's Roll, c. 1275, and

Per pale [the field divided in half --but mostly obscured by the eagle, anyway] azure and gules, a double headed eagle displayed argent, collared or, for John Joice [sic], appearing in the Galloway Roll, c. 1300.

Intriguing as the chronology is, the fact that the jeton is from London poses the possibility either that the heraldic elements don't have any intended significance (a bit of a stretch, to my mind), or that they could represent coats from further afield.  Regarding the latter possibility, the first two that leap to mind are the Hohenstaufen double-headed eagle (minus collar), and Lusignan (La Marche, Cyprus, etc.), barry argent and azure.  In the latter case, the 'fretty' (checquered) element might be reducible to an early attempt at representing the azure tincture in a monochromatic setting.

Regardless, that's Kicking it All Over the place.

@Curtisimo, I'm almost sorry that your solid Duchy of Athens denier got so badly upstaged!  ...I'll need a minute to find something to post, but I promise you, the same thing will summarily happen to it, too.

[JeandAcre]

Stumbled onto this in the deniers on file.  One of my all-time favorite Really Ugly coins, posted long enough ago on the other forum.

Robert II (son and heir of Hugh Capet), 996-1031.  Denier of Laon, coissued with Adalberon, Bishop 977-1030.

Obv.  Ostensible crowned portrait of Robert, facing; ostensible legend (blundered and unstruck beyond recognition): ROB FRAN REX.

Rev.  Adalberon facing, pellets to either side, in field.  (I guess you'll just have to take my and Duplessy's word for it:) +ADALBEO LAD.

Duplessy, Royales v. 1, no. 8.  For both legends, he includes the note, "(et deformations)."

Edited August 30, 2022 by JeandAcre

[UkrainiiVityaz]

Scotland - Queen Mary(1542-1567) Billon Penny (1547)

 

Pennies in 90 percent bronze and 10 percent silver were the first of very few coins struck in Scotland bearing a portrait of Mary, this as an infant. This particular coin is from the first coinage with the portrait of Mary with an arched crown, a particularly rare coin, struck in small quantities, and one of the few with Mary crowned on a coin. The legend on the front of the coin is + MARIA D G R SCOTORVM whilst the reverse is OPIDVM EDNBVR.

Provenance:
Ex David McDonald Collection (Dix Noonan Webb 63, 7 October 2004), lot 710

[ewomack]

It's Monday again?!? Here is my helm denier - 1163 - 1201 - I think it badly needs a new photo

[VD76]

Feudal France. Barony of Grignan . PB Bulla or Seal .  Circa 15th century . 

Obverse  - Armored knight, holding sword in his right hand and with a shield over his left shoulder , charging left on horseback . 

Reverse - Coat of arms of the Adhémar de Monteil family - Shield with three stripes

  + BVLLA : DNI : GRAIGNANI : •  

41.13 gr.

Ex . Editions V. Gadoury . 

 

If anyone has more information please let me know. I found only one mention about that seal with same legend in "UN SCEAU DES ADHÉMAR " in Bulletin d'archéologie et de statistique de la Drôme, 1886 , Volume 20 . 

There was also another seal in the same auction, but in much worse condition 

[JeandAcre]

3 hours ago, ewomack said:

It's Monday again?!? Here is my helm denier - 1163 - 1201 - I think it badly needs a new photo

@ewomack, if I hadn't been spent the whole day parked in front of a screen, sitting out the heat, I would try to find this in Malloy (CCS), if not my assemblage of xeroxoes from Metcalf (...and the university that sent their copy via Interlibrary Loan will Never Do That Again).

Well, except that, from Malloy (1994 ed.; next-to-last most current), it's looking like p. 213 (chapter on Antioch), #61.  ...Malloy is often good about citing Metcalf, including Metcalf's classes for these (which help with the chronology of an unusually long reign),  but in this case, he doesn't.

Given which, from here, your example is especially cool for the rendering of the chain mail.  Stylized, of course, but as such, immediately evoking the same representational conventions on any number of contemporary manuscript illustrations.  

[JeandAcre]

1 hour ago, VD76 said:

Feudal France. Barony of Grignan . PB Bulla or Seal .  Circa 15th century . 

Obverse  - Armored knight, holding sword in his right hand and with a shield over his left shoulder , charging left on horseback . 

Reverse - Coat of arms of the Adhémar de Monteil family - Shield with three stripes

  + BVLLA : DNI : GRAIGNANI : •  

41.13 gr.

Ex . Editions V. Gadoury . 

 

If anyone has more information please let me know. I found only one mention about that seal with same legend in "UN SCEAU DES ADHÉMAR " in Bulletin d'archéologie et de statistique de la Drôme, 1886 , Volume 20 . 

There was also another seal in the same auction, but in much worse condition 

@VD76, this is fantastic.  And it's sounding like you're as invested in, and nearly as clueless about this stuff as I am.

I posted a couple of examples in the other forum.  ...And was briefly in correspondence with a published English expert, who dismissed one of them (despite the Gothic lettering, unmistably to either side of c. 1300) as a Tudor-era seal, made in a much more abjectly commercial capacity.  

...Your example is beginning to confirm my suspicion that these, for either country, are just that much better studied, never mind published, in France.  

I can repost my two ..but meanwhile, you're cordially invited to write me about this stuff separately.

...But you're Owed some version of the posts I already put on the other website!  As called for, hold my feet to the fire!

Edited June 28, 2022 by JeandAcre

[MrMonkeySwag96]

I don’t really collect medieval coins. I do own a few Byzantine coins however the Byzantine series is more often categorized with “ancient coins.” In terms of the time period, Byzantine coins are technically “medieval” as they’re minted after the fall of Western Rome. I recently purchased a silver Hexagram of emperor Heraclius. Heraclius’s reign marked the end of Late Antiquity and his military/administrative policies transformed the Eastern Roman state into the Byzantine Empire. 

Heraclius & Heraclius Constantine AR Hexagram. Constantinople Obv: Heraclius and Heraclius Constantine seated facing on double throne, each holding globus cruciger. δδ NN ҺЄRACILЧS ЄT ҺЄRA CONST. Rev: Cross potent set upon globus set upon three steps; K to right. δЄЧS AδIЧTA ROMANIS. SB 798. 6.06 g. 610-641 AD.

Edited June 28, 2022 by MrMonkeySwag96

[Severus Alexander]

On 6/22/2022 at 1:42 AM, Roerbakmix said:

Also, @Severus Alexander, could you share your K/N mule again? I think I remember it, and believe that coin can be cleaned with some success. 

Sorry this took so long, @Roerbakmix!  Thank you so very much for the excellent resources on my new Series X!  (The first volume of the dissertation fell out of your post, somehow, but I found it here so no worries: https://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/14738/1/262831_vol1.pdf .)

Here is my K/N again:

I think you had originally said (way back when on CT) you had doubts about its cleaning potential, and I'm fine with the very dark toning/patina as is.  Though it would certainly be nice to know if it did have potential.  Thanks!

Also here are the two records for my new continental coins in the PAS database.  It seems someone has already had a go at cleaning them.

https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts/record/id/863169

https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts/record/id/849818

I'm all ears if you have comments about the second one!  Here's the Timeline photo of it:

And perhaps you can post another one of your doozies for us... 🤩

I'm glad I managed to squeak something in while it's still Monday!

[John Conduitt]

17 hours ago, JeandAcre said:

@John Conduitt, that jeton is truly blowing my head off.  I've never seen a jeton before that was any earlier than the Edward penny type or 14th-c. French varieties.

The story of these is certainly open to interpretation. There's debate as to where they were produced and whether they're trade tokens or not.

A large number were found in London in the 1840s and most finds have been in London, but they're called 'Winetavern Street' jetons because of a bag (assumed) containing a couple of thousand of them found in Dublin dumped unused in a waste pit.

The theory is that they were produced to provide merchants with small change and a tavern owner in Dublin ordered a few thousand for use there. But no sooner had they arrived, than Edward I brought in coin reforms that firstly provided official small change (farthings and halfpennies) and secondly banned the use of anything else. So the merchant hasily discarded them in the pit. This pit, being a waste pit, contained other artefacts that allowed them to be dated to the second half of the C13 (and I believe to the 1270s).They may be ecclesiastical. But they are well made in consistent weights of a valuable metal, and were kept in large volumes. They would have met a need for small change, which tokens were already known to fulfill.

[John Conduitt]

5 hours ago, Severus Alexander said:

Here is my K/N again

Nice coin. I haven't looked into these series that much, but K, L, N and even O have very similar varieties and it's interesting they're split into different series, particularly when mules exist and most are supposedly from Kent. I suppose it's not that different to series A, B and C.

[UkrainiiVityaz]

 

Scotland James III (1460-1488) Crosraguel Penny

 

Most of the available coinage for collectors from this reign is in the form of Pennies or farthings, which are commonly referred to as Crosraguel pennies, from the abbey at St. Andrews where most of the extent examples were found. It is not for certain whether these were an Ecclesiastical issue that was issued by Bishop James Kennedy, or if they were a regal issue. At any rate, regardless of the issuer, they must have not been popular as they have never been found in any quantity aside from the Crosraguel hoard.

[VD76]

Plate coin from  John Porteous article "The early coinage of the counts of Edessa " NC 1975 Plate 16 , 38 ; Ex. John Slocum collection , Sothebys London sale 6-7 March 1997 ,  Plate 1 , 11 ; Ex Jean Elsen  . 

County of Edessa. Baldwin II , Second reign (1108-1118) . 
Æ Follis. 8.35 g. Heavy issue .
Obverse : armed warrior standing left holding sword and shield .
Reverse : True Cross on two-stepped base , large pellet in each upper angle , three pellets and sprig in each lower angle .

( Obverse - overstruck on Richard Class 3 reverse , trace of Δ in circular legend and on Baldwin Class 2 reverse long cross , pellets , X and B in first and second angles ;
Reverse - on bust of Christ Baldwin Class 2 obverse ;
CCS 7 ; Slocum 11 ; Porteous  Class 3 ; 

Edited July 4, 2022 by VD76

[John Conduitt]

This is a cut halfpenny from Henry I. I think I have the identification right, which was made easier because of Henry's purge of moneyers in 1125. To counter debasement, he demanded they should all "lose their right hand and be castrated." Indeed, the purge is how this type has been dated in the first place - there are a lot of coins coming from relatively few mints and moneyers.

Henry I Cut Halfpenny (from a 'Quadrilateral on Cross Fleury' Penny), 1125-1135

London. Silver, 19.5mm, 0.65g. Henry I left; (+hENRI)CVS:. Quadrilateral on cross fleury; (+P)VLFPINE:ON(:LV) (Moneyer Wulfwine) (S 1276).

Edited July 4, 2022 by John Conduitt