quercus Posted January 31, 2023 · Member Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) I recently won the pictured coin at the most recent Spink auction, and after taking a further look, I'm a bit concerned about three details: The coin is slightly underweight at 14.04g (vs. the standard of ~14.40g) There is noticeable pitting all over the obverse What looks like a seam from 10 to 11 o'clock on the obverse With that in mind, what do the fine people of Numisforums think of this coin? Edited February 1, 2023 by quercus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted January 31, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) I am certainly not an expert in this area, but nothing about the coin screams fake to me. That's a very nice portrait of Zeus on the obverse! Edit to add: Welcome to the Forum! 🙂 Edited January 31, 2023 by CPK 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quercus Posted January 31, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted January 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, CPK said: I am certainly not an expert in this area, but nothing about the coin screams fake to me. That's a very nice portrait of Zeus on the obverse! Edit to add: Welcome to the Forum! 🙂 Thank you for the welcome! I've mainly been focusing on Roman coins these past 2-3 years, so this is a new arena for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun96 Posted January 31, 2023 · Member Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) I was a bit suspicious of this one too since there's loads of fakes in this Spink auction and the coin is covered in a fairly think patina making it difficult to assess some of the surfaces. But if I remember correctly, it did obverse die match with examples that Le Rider had catalogued. I think the reference was Le Rider pl.45 22, you can find some here. That's not fullproof of course, it could be a transfer die, but perhaps best start by going through those examples and comparing the Spink coin to them to look for weird similarities or differences. For starters, there's 7 other examples with a weight between 14.00g and 14.10g so that's more reassuring. Edited January 31, 2023 by Kaleun96 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapphnwn Posted January 31, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted January 31, 2023 Spink is a very old and a very good firm. However even the best can get fooled by forgeries. I do not like to comment on authenticity based on photographs. There are simply too many things that can be hidden. For what it is worth like @CPK I see nothing wrong with the coin. However the coin is posthumous struck during the reign of Antipater-Kassander 323-315 BC Troxell 303 Le Rider Amphipolis III 22 Your weight is a bit light but not overtly so. Some coins in the very broad group can b under 14 grams weight and weights in the 14.10 are not uncommon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted January 31, 2023 · Member Share Posted January 31, 2023 Lots of fakes in this Spink auction......really does Spink iknow? Do tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted January 31, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted January 31, 2023 8 hours ago, Kaleun96 said: since there's loads of fakes in this Spink auction I was fairly careful with the 2 I bid on and won, but am now worried! Please spill the beans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewomack Posted January 31, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted January 31, 2023 I do not see a coin picture in the first post. Was it removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun96 Posted January 31, 2023 · Member Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 hours ago, Deinomenid said: I was fairly careful with the 2 I bid on and won, but am now worried! Please spill the beans. Most were quite obvious so you probably would have avoided them anyway. You can find four of them in this thread (starting from bottom of this page and onto the next page): https://www.numismatikforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=53721&start=960 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted January 31, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted January 31, 2023 Phew, yes. And I've bookmarked the thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted January 31, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted January 31, 2023 Gosh, going through that site is incredibly sobering even for a cynic with only schoolboy German. They also link to an Italian site that analyzes this quite famous collection www.ancientsiciliancoins.com Basically pick it apart, showing fake after expensive fake. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quercus Posted February 1, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, ewomack said: I do not see a coin picture in the first post. Was it removed? Oops, I just realized I accidentally removed it while editing the original post. Edited February 1, 2023 by quercus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quercus Posted February 1, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) I spent a few moments doing some acsearch sleuthing as @Kaleun96recommended. I did find a Le Rider plate die match for both the obverse and reverse (thank you for the helpful reference). I've attached a quick obverse die match study I put together on Photoshop, alongside the coin with matching die (2003 Busso Peus). I didn't bother doing a reverse die match study on Photoshop because the die match is obvious. Although as he mentioned, the question of whether this may be a transfer die also remains. Edited March 6, 2023 by quercus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun96 Posted February 1, 2023 · Member Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) @DeinomenidAnother fake from that Spink auction 😬 http://www.forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=pbNKE6pe99Q= https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=6465&lot=6041 Edited February 1, 2023 by Kaleun96 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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