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Waiting on coins from four different dealers


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I can certainly understand why you'd be livid. I'd certainly be like the Captain in the Dr. Who episode, the Pirate Planet were I in that situation.  I was mainly asking about his non-Germany shipments.

As much as U.S. collectors have been sold down the river in recent years, those packaging laws and import restrictions sound insidious.  It must be pretty tough to collect there.  I purchased one of my first overseas coins from Byzantium coins in 2009.  I seem to recall that he was in Germany.

He's been a pretty long-time dealer there. I think he was there by 2010? There's been a coin or two I've considered but they've either been a bit overpriced or something always caused me not to purchase.

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Ok. The fact that 22% surcharge is due at the auction - I think it's a lot - but hey - you know that beforehand. Nevertheless, I find 22% quite a lot for such a small auction house.

But 70 euros for shipping if I use UPS or FedEx? 

So that you understand me. The auction house is in Germany. I am in Germany. It's about a 5 hour drive between me and the auction house.

Respect - that's how you can earn money.

PS: To be fair, the auction house also offers an ordinary DHL package. An insured parcel up to 500 euros costs 5 euros with DHL within Germany. An insured parcel up to 1,000 euros costs 8 euros. The coin has a value of 300 euros, so the 5 euro parcel is sufficient. But here, too, the auction house wants 17 euros for DHL shipping. It's only pocket change - but you can also earn a little extra with shipping.

Bildschirmfoto 2022-07-06 um 23.04.27.png

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Yes, I experienced that also when buying from Germany .  FedEx would have charged an extreme amount (with no insurance).  We ended going the pony express way, the post office, which is what I wanted.

DHL Express was about 1/3rd or 1/4th the price of FedEx, IIRC.

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Posted (edited)

I just won my first ever auction this weekend - got this beautiful Sulla coin, minted by L. Manlius Torquatus, at Artemide 59e. 

Those who have won coins at Artemide in the past ... what kind of wait am I in for here?

EDIT: sorry the pictures are so enormous lol 

 

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Edited by jfp7375
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On 7/6/2022 at 8:41 PM, jfp7375 said:

EDIT: sorry the pictures are so enormous lol 

Pro-tip (discoverd by trial and error): You can easily fix this problem by taking a screenshot of the original photo, copying it to the clipboard, and pasting that directly into the comment box instead.  (Shift-command-4 on a Mac, not sure on a PC.)

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51 minutes ago, Roman Collector said:

That's very unusual. 

In that case, I guess I’ll contact the dealer first, see what they might say. And I know it’s in the hands of customs, but any idea if calling USPS could possibly be of any help? 

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Oh - I like that!

Sellers who are already whining after 5 minutes - where is the transfer? And then ask three times a day whether you have already transferred the money. And when you have transferred the money the next day - no one answers - and by "no one answers" I mean - standstill. No shipping, no tracking number, nothing. So now I wait and wait and wait.

I'm not afraid of losing my money, it's a well-known seller. But should I be bugging him every 5 minutes?

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Roman Collector said:

I guess I'm famous! One of them was mine. I did get a refund, so if it ever turns up I'll have to decide if I want to pay for it all over again -- I got caught up in a bidding war and ended up paying considerably more than I had intended. After what happened, I'd expect it to be hand-delivered.

Edited by DonnaML
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I was a bit surprised to receive my bill from Leu today. And it's not just me - acquaintances of mine are also somewhat "disappointed". Here in Germany they say - the shop is doing too well. One is then quickly taken off the hook. 

I had a look at the terms and conditions before the auction. It's also perfectly fine that there's a surcharge of just over 18%. I knew all that. You can read all about it before the auction.

What annoys me are all the little fees that are then added on.

1. you are charged a flat CHF 12 bank transfer fee. This is understandable IF customers pay in EUR, GBP, USD etc. and a fee is due. But I can pay / transfer with my account in CHF and then no fee is due for the recipient. A friend called Leu - it's a flat fee if you don't have an account in Switzerland - says Leu. But according to my information - I have an acquaintance at the Swiss UBS - no fee is due if I transfer in CHF!

2. shipping costs. So far, the record holder for me is Heritage Europe. They charged 75 euros for a coin from the Netherlands to Germany (we are neighbouring countries). That was a sad record - because from one EU country to another EU country it's not even 10 EURO shipping costs. Insured.

Leu broke the record. Leu is less than 150km away from me and charges a whopping 65 CHF for shipping. But that's only 65 CHF / EUR at first glance... I see - there's still about 26 CHF / EUR in insurance for shipping on top of that! Then we are at around 91 CHF / EUR for shipping! Do my coins come with the personal butler? Almost 100 CHF / EUR for shipping over 150km - that's a new record.

3. bank charges for PayPal? But well, the best is yet to come. You remember point 1, the 12 CHF bank charges? You can also pay the Leu bill by credit card or PayPal. Of course, there are fees for credit card or PayPal. That's ok.

But why do I have to pay a flat CHF 12 bank fee when I pay with PayPal? When I pay with PayPal, the money goes from my PayPal account to Leu's PayPal account. Your bank has nothing to do with it. And yet I have to pay a flat CHF 12 bank fee from PayPal to PayPal.

Again - the reason given by Leu on the phone for the 12 CHF were - they arise when someone transfers money from Europe to Switzerland. But I pay by credit card or PayPal - why do I have to pay the 12 CHF?

 

Sure. It's little things. But in the end, many little things also make a lot of mess and drive up the bill. And 100 CHF / EUR for shipping to a neighbouring country. I send for 20-30 euros to the USA from Germany. And then there are all-inclusive fees, regardless of whether you transfer in CHF or don't transfer at all, but pay via PayPal.

It is my opinion. And I don't think the whole thing is good.

 

Bildschirmfoto 2022-07-21 um 10.34.55.png

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I bought a lot of a dozen coins from Noonans in their last auction. It was dispatched 3 working days after I paid and delivered by 9am a day later for £12 (both they and I are in the UK).

The packaging made me smile. It came between two bits of thick cardboard packed into a padded envelope, which was packed into a padded envelope, which was packed into a padded envelope, which was packed into a padded envelope. Like a matryoshka. I could have played pass the parcel.

But the dozen coins (deep in all that packaging) were all together in a single PVC bag 🤣 Luckily, they were field finds so didn't have precious surfaces.

Edited by John Conduitt
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On 7/21/2022 at 2:02 AM, Prieure de Sion said:

I was a bit surprised to receive my bill from Leu today. And it's not just me - acquaintances of mine are also somewhat "disappointed". Here in Germany they say - the shop is doing too well. One is then quickly taken off the hook. 

I had a look at the terms and conditions before the auction. It's also perfectly fine that there's a surcharge of just over 18%. I knew all that. You can read all about it before the auction.

What annoys me are all the little fees that are then added on.

1. you are charged a flat CHF 12 bank transfer fee. This is understandable IF customers pay in EUR, GBP, USD etc. and a fee is due. But I can pay / transfer with my account in CHF and then no fee is due for the recipient. A friend called Leu - it's a flat fee if you don't have an account in Switzerland - says Leu. But according to my information - I have an acquaintance at the Swiss UBS - no fee is due if I transfer in CHF!

2. shipping costs. So far, the record holder for me is Heritage Europe. They charged 75 euros for a coin from the Netherlands to Germany (we are neighbouring countries). That was a sad record - because from one EU country to another EU country it's not even 10 EURO shipping costs. Insured.

Leu broke the record. Leu is less than 150km away from me and charges a whopping 65 CHF for shipping. But that's only 65 CHF / EUR at first glance... I see - there's still about 26 CHF / EUR in insurance for shipping on top of that! Then we are at around 91 CHF / EUR for shipping! Do my coins come with the personal butler? Almost 100 CHF / EUR for shipping over 150km - that's a new record.

3. bank charges for PayPal? But well, the best is yet to come. You remember point 1, the 12 CHF bank charges? You can also pay the Leu bill by credit card or PayPal. Of course, there are fees for credit card or PayPal. That's ok.

But why do I have to pay a flat CHF 12 bank fee when I pay with PayPal? When I pay with PayPal, the money goes from my PayPal account to Leu's PayPal account. Your bank has nothing to do with it. And yet I have to pay a flat CHF 12 bank fee from PayPal to PayPal.

Again - the reason given by Leu on the phone for the 12 CHF were - they arise when someone transfers money from Europe to Switzerland. But I pay by credit card or PayPal - why do I have to pay the 12 CHF?

 

Sure. It's little things. But in the end, many little things also make a lot of mess and drive up the bill. And 100 CHF / EUR for shipping to a neighbouring country. I send for 20-30 euros to the USA from Germany. And then there are all-inclusive fees, regardless of whether you transfer in CHF or don't transfer at all, but pay via PayPal.

It is my opinion. And I don't think the whole thing is good.

 

Bildschirmfoto 2022-07-21 um 10.34.55.png

@Prieure de Sion- if you don’t mind me asking, what did you win at Leu?. The reason i asked as we bid quite often on the same lots in different auctions:) just curious if we overlapped this time around. I placed bids on about 11 lots and won only one Empire silver

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On 7/6/2022 at 10:41 PM, jfp7375 said:

I just won my first ever auction this weekend - got this beautiful Sulla coin, minted by L. Manlius Torquatus, at Artemide 59e. 

Those who have won coins at Artemide in the past ... what kind of wait am I in for here?

EDIT: sorry the pictures are so enormous lol 

It's been 2-3 weeks so my comments may not apply but I've made several orders from Artemide (both the San Marino [srl] and Vienna [GmbH] offices) and always found them to be prompt (shipping within a few days or less, I think) and very professional. Good enough they never gave reason to think twice. (Only delay was in Customs when I owed a duty to US import because it included a gold coin over a certain value, which is pretty rare. I was glad they declared everything properly; I got a little nervous or outright upset when I see deceptive customs declarations on my packages.) Shipments from Europe to the USA (if that's where you are) can take a long time these days depending on the current circumstances of air transit and how backed up Customs are. But that's out of their hands.

You may have figure this out in the meantime: For the enormous photos here, I just double-click on them, and reduce the size to width=400 or 200 or however small the coin deserves!

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1 hour ago, El Cazador said:

@Prieure de Sion- if you don’t mind me asking, what did you win at Leu?. The reason i asked as we bid quite often on the same lots in different auctions:) just curious if we overlapped this time around. I placed bids on about 11 lots and won only one Empire silver

Lot 388 SKYTHIA. Geto-Dacians. Koson, mid 1st century BC. Stater.
Lot 2606 Gordian III, 238-244. Denarius.
Lot 4640 Gordian III, 238-244. Antoninianus.
Lot 4664 Gordian III, 238-244. Denarius.
Lot 4665 Gordian III, 238-244. Denarius.

😉 

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I just got my Leu shipping notice too.

I'm curious if anyone else won a lot by sniping Leu very close to the end of the auction, and if so how much the hammer price was below their snipe/max bid ?

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I sniped a Leu lot 6 sec before it closed that was currently at 50-60 CHF, and won it at 180 CF which was about 80% of my max. I was a bit surprised there was anyone (or any THING) else bidding in last 4-5 sec of the auction given that this wasn't any particular rarity (although in great condition).

In contrast, I just sniped two lots at Roma a few minutes ago, and won then for an increment over the prevailing high bid.

So, anyone have similar experience at Leu ? It's their own bidding platform, so they know what your max bid is and could certainly put in an automatic shill bid to drive the price up if they were inclined. I really hope that wasn't the case.

 

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On 7/21/2022 at 2:02 AM, Prieure de Sion said:

you are charged a flat CHF 12 bank transfer fee.

I pay Leu with Wise.com and Leu gets the full amount, so they agreed to accept it without the 12 CHF. I just take the invoice which has the 12 CHF bank fee and pay 12 CHF less, remind them of our agreement, and that works fine. 

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I would also like to mention one company in a positive light.

Künker in Osnabrück (Germany) is also one of the renowned, reputable and exclusive auction houses on the market. But although Künker could certainly do it too - they have so far stayed on the ground here.

1. mark-up 17.5% and that for such an auction house.

2. shipping costs 5.90 euros for an insured DHL package within Germany. That is exactly the shipping price. In other words, Künker doesn't earn a single cent extra on this itself.

3. speed. I received the invoice this week on Monday in the afternoon. On Tuesday morning - one day later - I already had the link to the shipment. They sent the coin out so quickly that I hadn't even paid yet.

That's just how it works.


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Posted · Supporter
21 minutes ago, Heliodromus said:

So, anyone have similar experience at Leu ?

A few auctions ago there was some talk of too many people having to pay (close to) their max bid at Leu to win their lots, me included. However, in their next auction I won a few lots at substantially less than my max bid, so I believe the suspicions were ungrounded.

But a lot of extreme last-second bidding can happen in timed auctions, and sometimes this can lead to seemingly absurd results. ( imagine two or more people simultaneously placing ridiculous last-second overbids to secure the lotthey're after: it's a weird and dangerous dynamic...). It's probably also the reason why Leu chooses timed auctions as their format.

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2 hours ago, DANTE said:

But a lot of extreme last-second bidding can happen in timed auctions

Sure, but normally it's a bit predictable what's going to jump up a *lot* in last few sec - I was expecting this one to jump a few bid increments maybe, but not so much. It's also a bit surprising to see a manual bid come in *so* late. If it wasn't an automated shill bid, then someone was really trusting the platform to submit a bid around 4 sec before close (I thought my 6 sec was as far as I dare push it).

 

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