Benefactor DonnaML Posted December 17, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted December 17, 2022 So a Novodel is an official restrike from a Russian mint? Sort of like Paris Mint restrikes? I imagine they have value on their own, but is there any definitive way of distinguishing them from the originals? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted December 17, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 1 minute ago, kirispupis said: Did you buy the one from Marc Breitsprecher? I must admit that is a cool coin. I was tempted on it even though it’s more than 2000 years after my era of focus. Nope, i bought it locally in Australia from a reputable seller! Yes - it's very cool. In fact 18th century Russian coins are very artistic - it's a pity there are so damn many fakes. Hopefully this one checks out ok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted December 17, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted December 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, CPK said: Yes, though the ideology is poisonous, you can't deny that the art is inspiring. It's funny you started this thread actually, since I've just recently won a Soviet ruble in an auction. It'll probably be a few weeks till I get it, but when I do I will post it here! When I was Red Square in 1995 a guy came up to me with a bunch of Soviet coins. He wanted a dollar for them, so I gave him a dollar. I still have them. They’re beautiful coins. I also still have my Soviet stamp albums. I bought one in Estonia in the same year for 100 bucks. I filled up my Scott album, then sold the extras last year for 200. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted December 17, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 1 minute ago, DonnaML said: So a Novodel is an official restrike from a Russian mint? Sort of like Paris Mint restrikes? I imagine they have value on their own, but is there any definitive way of distinguishing them from the originals? My understanding is novodels should have very little wear, as they were struck for collectors. Of course somebody could take a novodel and knock it around and give it the appearance of circulation wear. I'm on a learning curve now! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted December 17, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 Ok the experts in the Russian coin forum on Facebook deem this coin genuine. Most 1742 rubles were struck over 1741 rubles of Ivan, and there are traces of the host coin - which also makes authenticity likely. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted December 17, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 7 hours ago, DonnaML said: So a Novodel is an official restrike from a Russian mint? Sort of like Paris Mint restrikes? I imagine they have value on their own, but is there any definitive way of distinguishing them from the originals? So a fun fact that I’ve discovered from my learning curve - a novodel of this 1742 rouble is actually worth a LOT more than the original. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted December 17, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2022 7 hours ago, DonnaML said: So a Novodel is an official restrike from a Russian mint? Sort of like Paris Mint restrikes? I imagine they have value on their own, but is there any definitive way of distinguishing them from the originals? There are a few ways. Novodels were struck using certain years, at certain mints. The dies may be reused - in which case you might be able to tell - or they might be new or copied dies, and so there are differences in the design (as I thought was possible with this one). The combination of obverse and reverse might be ‘wrong’, and quite often the edge is different because the edging wasn’t kept. They are also usually very fresh-looking as they were not made for circulation. Some of these are official, some were made by mint workers ‘unofficially’. They can be worth more than the originals, but that also means they are likely to be faked, and given the variations Novodels have from originals, I wouldn’t want to try to work out if one was a fake or not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UkrainiiVityaz Posted December 17, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 17, 2022 (edited) My type set of small denomination Russian coins, sorry the gold is not presently imaged. I literally have dozens of the Yekaterina etc pyataks, coins as early as the wire money but haven't imaged them. With the poltina and the ruble, I enjoy the old Slavonic Cyrillic lettering on them. Edited December 17, 2022 by UkrainiiVityaz 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UkrainiiVityaz Posted December 17, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 17, 2022 This is well known ruble of year 1924 with "Пролетарии всех стран, соединяйтесь!" or Proletarians of all lands Unite! more commonly translated to English as Workers of the world, Unite! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor robinjojo Posted December 17, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted December 17, 2022 Excellent rubles and other denominations posted! I'd post some of mine, but that would be kind of repetitious, since most are included in an earlier thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_v_a_n Posted December 19, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 19, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 6:01 AM, GregH said: Ok the experts in the Russian coin forum on Facebook deem this coin genuine. Most 1742 rubles were struck over 1741 rubles of Ivan, and there are traces of the host coin - which also makes authenticity likely. I also thinking you have an authentic rouble. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filat Posted December 19, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) 17.12.2022 в 04:32, GregH сказал: Наш русскоязычный друг в этом вопросе указывает, что моя монета может быть копией, и, вероятно, планирует крупный план частичного реверса, хотя я не понимаю, что он опасен. Я ответил по-русски, так что, надеюсь, он просветит. Я подумал, что проверена купленная монета - вес правильный, стиль правильный, надписи на краях (самая часть следов для подделки) тоже хорошо написан. Серебро не наблюдается с магнитными металлами (общая черта подделок). Я прочитал тему. Но я не знаю, чего я не знаю. Скрещенные пальцы! 1. Данный рубль - это копия, с большим количеством признаков подделки (This ruble is a copy, with a lot of signs of a fake - Google Translate). 2. Если Вы, GregH, не поняли то, что я показал на своей картинке, то предлагаю Вам, GregH, сделать очень крупную фотографию реверса данного "рубля" и разместить эту фотографию здесь, в данной теме и я Вам, GregH, покажу - на что я указывал (If you, GregH, did not understand what I showed in my picture, then I suggest you, GregH, take a very large photo of the reverse of this "ruble" and post this photo here, in this thread, and I will show you, GregH, what I pointed out - Google Translate). Edited December 19, 2022 by Filat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_v_a_n Posted December 19, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 19, 2022 I've collected roubles, poltinas and some coppers (especially 18 century) from my first silver rouble at 1992 until 2014. From the middle of 2000th it was a great detectorists era and a lot of super findings and respective coins on market. After russian invasion into Ukraine in 2014 I switched to ancients and totally sold out all roubles until 2017. It was a great work for me to find only this one photo of ex-mine rouble 😀 We are, Ukrainians, now has nothing to do with the russians and want to completely separate our culture. We are culturally rich and carry the heritage of Kievan Rus, Roman provinces, Greek colonies, Scythians, Trypillia... 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted December 19, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Filat said: 1. Данный рубль - это копия, с большим количеством признаков подделки (This ruble is a copy, with a lot of signs of a fake - Google Translate). 2. Если Вы, GregH, не поняли то, что я показал на своей картинке, то предлагаю Вам, GregH, сделать очень крупную фотографию реверса данного "рубля" и разместить эту фотографию здесь, в данной теме и я Вам, GregH, покажу - на что я указывал (If you, GregH, did not understand what I showed in my picture, then I suggest you, GregH, take a very large photo of the reverse of this "ruble" and post this photo here, in this thread, and I will show you, GregH, what I pointed out - Google Translate). I have already posted large images and I’ve had this coin examined by a few Russian coin experts now who deem it probably authentic. Of particular relevance is the Ivan VI undertype that makes authenticity likely. I think you’re probably a troll. Either explain your reasoning or desist. You haven’t said anything specific and I am now getting irritated with you. Your claims that the coin is a “copy”, without any further information, are frankly annoying. Edited December 19, 2022 by GregH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filat Posted December 19, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) для наглядности нужна очень крупная и четкая фотография. Edited December 19, 2022 by Filat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzerman Posted December 19, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 19, 2022 On 12/16/2022 at 10:50 PM, GregH said: My understanding is novodels should have very little wear, as they were struck for collectors. Of course somebody could take a novodel and knock it around and give it the appearance of circulation wear. I'm on a learning curve now! According to Friedberg.... Novodels were struck from original dies from 1700s thru 1850 by St. Petersburg Mint. These were esp. minted in tiny numbers for the nobility (that were into coin collecting) Many of the originals are non existant or unique / Hermitage coll. Dr. Larry Adams Coll. had some 17/18th century novodels that went very high in Triton Auction. Most novodel issues/ there are less then 10 known in museum/ private collections. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzerman Posted December 19, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 19, 2022 On 12/16/2022 at 10:46 PM, DonnaML said: So a Novodel is an official restrike from a Russian mint? Sort of like Paris Mint restrikes? I imagine they have value on their own, but is there any definitive way of distinguishing them from the originals? The modern restrikes are not in same league. Example the Austro-Hungarian restrikes of 1915 AV 100 Coronas/ 4 Dukaten etc. are bullion type coins/ no coll. value/ and are still being produced. The Novodels were struck 150-250 years ago, from original dies/ at St. Petersburg/ in tiny numbers for the nobility. Most novodels are rarer then the 1933 St. Gaudens Double Eagle/ some that have appeared in recent auctions fetched very high hammer prices/ also not all are in high quality. Here a one sold by CNG/ second I got from Austrian Auction..... These (Ivan V/ Potr I/ Sophia ) were struck from 10 Dukaten down to Quarter Dukat. The CNG ex. is a 3/4 Dukat/ mine is a Dukat. These novodels were struck in late 1700s/ original AV Dukat sold for 52K in 2011 Auction/ novodel (affordable version) is 5-10K. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UkrainiiVityaz Posted December 19, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 19, 2022 11 hours ago, I_v_a_n said: I've collected roubles, poltinas and some coppers (especially 18 century) from my first silver rouble at 1992 until 2014. From the middle of 2000th it was a great detectorists era and a lot of super findings and respective coins on market. After russian invasion into Ukraine in 2014 I switched to ancients and totally sold out all roubles until 2017. It was a great work for me to find only this one photo of ex-mine rouble 😀 We are, Ukrainians, now has nothing to do with the russians and want to completely separate our culture. We are culturally rich and carry the heritage of Kievan Rus, Roman provinces, Greek colonies, Scythians, Trypillia... Є можливість зібрати старовинні монети з території сучасної України - це дрібна монета з міста Тирас - Білгород-Дністровський 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filat Posted December 20, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 20, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, GregH said: have already posted large images and I’ve had this coin examined by a few Russian coin experts now who deem it probably authentic. Of particular relevance is the Ivan VI undertype that makes authenticity likely. I think you’re probably a troll. Either explain your reasoning or desist. You haven’t said anything specific and I am now getting irritated with you. Your claims that the coin is a “copy”, without any further information, are frankly annoying. для получения дополнительной информации требуется очень крупная и четкая фотография реверса Вашего "рубля" ( размер ~ 3000х3000 пикселей). Edited December 20, 2022 by Filat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alegandron Posted December 20, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 20, 2022 I only dabble, and not with Rubles. I am seriously considering Gold from the Tsars, but have not pulled the trigger yet. RUSSIA Ivan IV The Terrible 1533-1584 AR Denga Moscow mint Horseman riding right brandishing sword - G&K 59 Rare type 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UkrainiiVityaz Posted December 20, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 20, 2022 Вывезен контрабандой из сами знаете откуда в былые времена. Smuggled out of you know where back in the days old. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat Posted December 20, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 20, 2022 Not something I collect but I picked this up from my LCS for a couple of Euros. A commemorative exhalting Leningrad as a Hero City for withstanding the siege by German troops for 900 days. The reverse also shows the Gold Star Medal awarded to the city. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejas Posted December 21, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) I also like Russian roubles, but I only have a few common ones. These are all roubles despite the different sized pictures. I include Duke Peter of Courland and Semgallia. He was a German prince, but his territory was under Russian suzerainty. 1. Peter I the Great, 1724 2. Peter II, 1728 (while he was far less important than Peter I, his coin portraits are pretty spectacular, and perhaps the most attractive of the 18. century roubles) 3. Anna, 1734 4. Elisabeth, 1754 5. Peter of Courland, 1780 Edited December 21, 2022 by Tejas 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejas Posted December 21, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) On 12/17/2022 at 2:23 AM, GregH said: Я не понимаю. Как вы думаете, почему эта монета является репродукцией? I can't see the slightest sign of your coin being a copy, fake or novodel. In my view, your coin is genuine. Edited December 21, 2022 by Tejas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejas Posted December 21, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 21, 2022 On 12/16/2022 at 8:15 PM, John Conduitt said: How does collecting old roubles support Putin? He couldn't sell his collection outside Russia even if he had one. It would be playing Putin's game to consider a whole race guilty of his crimes. Not all Russians are or were warmongers. Peter the Great, who Putin apparently admires, had a famously European outlook. I fully agree with the above statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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