Before and After Bronze Disease Treatment with Verdicare

[Roman Collector]

I purchased this bronze provincial of Faustina the Younger from a dealer in a hot, humid environment. The eBay photos weren't very good, but the price was right and I did not have an example in my collection, so I purchased the coin. When it arrived, I saw that it had bronze disease, particularly at the 7:00 position on the reverse.

I treated it with Verdicare, which seems to have taken care of the problem. It also resulted in a glossy appearance to the coin's surface (toned bronze).

The treatment seems to have stabilized the coin, making it safe for long-term storage.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Roman Collector

[ominus1]

Great coin and good job RC! :)..i'm a disciple of that school of action meself...^^

[Limes]

Good job. I just ordered some new chemicals at Noble. BD seems to be back at my Caligula as 😔

[robinjojo]

Nice job!  You might want to keep the coin out for several weeks at least and examine it from time to time.  The Verdicare should seal the surface, but observation for a while wouldn't hurt.

[robinjojo]

1 hour ago, Limes said:

Good job. I just ordered some new chemicals at Noble. BD seems to be back at my Caligula as 😔

How severe is the BD?  Have you tried an extended soak in distilled water, with occasional changes of the water?  You could try this for a week to see if that works, followed by a thorough drying in the oven at a very low setting. 

[Limes]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:57 PM, robinjojo said:

How severe is the BD?  Have you tried an extended soak in distilled water, with occasional changes of the water?  You could try this for a week to see if that works, followed by a thorough drying in the oven at a very low setting. 

It was pretty bad, but I got most of it away. You can clearly see the areas on the picture. At the back of the head was the worst of it, but it was also on the lip of the portrait, and on the side, at eight o clock. (The scratch at the lip is my fault, I slipped (how to say this?) with the cleaning tool... I cried a bit 😞) 

I believe there must have been BD already, but that it was covered by repatinating it. When i picked some areas infected, the black patina let go and BD seem to appear. There are other corroded areas on the obverse, where the blackish patina also is gone now, but no BD appeared. E.g. the neck, just below the hairline and in the field in front of the chin of the portrait. Interestingly, the reverse shows no issues and is in XF state with lovely details. 

It's hard to see, but there are some tiny green spots left on the back of the hair of the portrait on the obverse. I can see it under a magnifier. But im not certain if these are deposits, or something else. Nothing happens when i gently pick at the spots. 

I will keep it in DW for a couple more weeks, and after receiving the chemicals, gently rub the infected areas. 

I also read about baking the coin in the oven for a little while. Also that it will make the coin darken. Have you had experience with this? And what setting do you use? 

thanks!

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Limes

[robinjojo]

I've treated coins with BD but I haven't used an oven for drying, since I live in an area of low humidity most of the year, except winter, were the much needed rains also kicked up the humidity level to !00% at times.  That's a welcome tradeoff.  

You've done a very good job treating the Caligula bronze for BD.  I'd go slow with the distilled water.  Distilled water is very good a neutralizing the corrosive process.  

I can't really see the spots in the hair.  I would take the coin out the water from time to time, and using a wooden toothpick, see if those spots can be dislodged.  

Once you are sure as possible that the BD is gone, the treated area will darken with time.  If you want to speed the process up, there is liver of sulfur, sold in concentrated liquid form that will turn the area dark brown.  It takes some experience to determine the right dilution ratio, using heated distilled water.  Once the desired color is achieved the coin needs to rinsed in distilled water and dried thoroughly.

Finally, you might want to consider sealing the surfaces with Verdicare or Ren Wax.  Ren Wax would give the coin a "wet" look, more so than Verdicare, based on my experience.

I'm waiting for the arrival of a really neat looking Arab imitation of a Byzantine follis.  The coin could very well have BD, but I won't be sure until it arrives.  The deposits might be earthen or they could be the dreaded BD - definitely a coin in need of triage!

Edited December 8, 2022 by robinjojo

[ewomack]

I see Verdi-care on sale again, and I've always thought I should have a bottle handy. Is it something that one can buy and have around for a while? Does it go bad over time? I plan on ordering some, but just curious.

I would like some around in case this guy below (Theophilus) begins to show any signs of BD - so far I've found no crumbling elements, but I'm wondering if it's just a matter of time. It looks like he may have had a case of it sometime in the past.

Theophilus (AD 829-842) Æ Follis; Constantinople mint; AD 830-842; Obv: ΘEOFIL bASIL; Half-length figure standing facing, holding labarum and globus cruciger; Rev: ΘEO / FILE AVG / OVSTE SV / hICAS in four lines; 27.66mm; 7.46 grams; Sear 1667

[ominus1]

10 minutes ago, ewomack said:

I see Verdi-care on sale again, and I've always thought I should have a bottle handy. Is it something that one can buy and have around for a while? Does it go bad over time? I plan on ordering some, but just curious.

I would like some around in case this guy below (Theophilus) begins to show any signs of BD - so far I've found no crumbling elements, but I'm wondering if it's just a matter of time. It looks like he may have had a case of it sometime in the past.

Theophilus (AD 829-842) Æ Follis; Constantinople mint; AD 830-842; Obv: ΘEOFIL bASIL; Half-length figure standing facing, holding labarum and globus cruciger; Rev: ΘEO / FILE AVG / OVSTE SV / hICAS in four lines; 27.66mm; 7.46 grams; Sear 1667

its a great cleaner/sealer on coins..i bought a big bottle a few years ago and sill have over half and used it on most all my coins no silver..it dosen't go 'bad'...(ironically  the creators handle is 'badthad'><)  and its works miracles on BD

[DLTcoins]

12 hours ago, ewomack said:

 

I would like some around in case this guy below (Theophilus) begins to show any signs of BD - so far I've found no crumbling elements, but I'm wondering if it's just a matter of time. It looks like he may have had a case of it sometime in the past.

It's good to remind oneself that bronze disease can't be "cured" but it can be interrupted and prevented from recurring. Bronze disease behaves in the manner it does because it is not a single chemical reaction but a repeating series of reactions where one feeds on the byproduct of another in an endless cycle. The basic reactants are copper, oxygen and chlorine. Treatment involves breaking the cycle and then depriving the reaction of one of its essential ingredients - water. Even the small amount of water in the air on a humid day is enough to start the reaction again. Maintenance involves regular inspection and keeping the object as dry as possible.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by DLTcoins

[Limes]

17 hours ago, robinjojo said:

I've treated coins with BD but I haven't used an oven for drying, since I live in an area of low humidity most of the year, except winter, were the much needed rains also kicked up the humidity level to !00% at times.  That's a welcome tradeoff.  

You've done a very good job treating the Caligula bronze for BD.  I'd go slow with the distilled water.  Distilled water is very good a neutralizing the corrosive process.  

I can't really see the spots in the hair.  I would take the coin out the water from time to time, and using a wooden toothpick, see if those spots can be dislodged.  

Once you are sure as possible that the BD is gone, the treated area will darken with time.  If you want to speed the process up, there is liver of sulfur, sold in concentrated liquid form that will turn the area dark brown.  It takes some experience to determine the right dilution ratio, using heated distilled water.  Once the desired color is achieved the coin needs to rinsed in distilled water and dried thoroughly.

Finally, you might want to consider sealing the surfaces with Verdicare or Ren Wax.  Ren Wax would give the coin a "wet" look, more so than Verdicare, based on my experience.

I'm waiting for the arrival of a really neat looking Arab imitation of a Byzantine follis.  The coin could very well have BD, but I won't be sure until it arrives.  The deposits might be earthen or they could be the dreaded BD - definitely a coin in need of triage!

Thanks again for the help. I've picked the green tiny spots with a pick, nothing happened that I would expect with BD, so these might turn out to be just some sort of other deposits, or colouring. I'll keep an eye on it nevertheless.  

About Renaissance wax, not every collector is a proponent of using this. There's an interesting topic about it on CT, see here. Even including someone sharing his/her correspondance with the BM about it. I have some here, used it once, but noticed no significance difference. I dont think I'll use it on the Caligula, too concerned it might trap reoccurring BD. 

I also ordered a set of small JAX repatinating bottles, to make the corrossion spots more dark again. I've never used that before, and I'll be sure to share pictures once I've applied it, of the result. 

I dont have verdicare. I looked for it a while ago, it was sold out, and have forgotten about it. It's a coincidence that RC started this topic; i just ordered Gringgott's Bronze Disease Killer a few moments before it after seeing the green spots back on the coin. 

Good luck with your new coin, those spots look like a case of BD, but you'll know once you see it in hand. Might you need to treat it, I'd be interested in seeing your cleaning process! 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Limes

[robinjojo]

Here's a "work in progress" update on the fals with apparent BD.  Most of the deposits are gone, after several days in distilled water.  I'm not sure if the problem was BD or just some light green, but benign, deposits.  I'm keeping the coin under observation. 

There has been some loss of mass, from 4.50 grams to 4.19 grams.

This is actually quite a rare coin.

 

[Harry G]

Does anyone know if Verdicare is for sale anywhere in the UK? I have several coins with (suspected) BD that look like they might need treating

[robinjojo]

10 hours ago, Harry G said:

Does anyone know if Verdicare is for sale anywhere in the UK? I have several coins with (suspected) BD that look like they might need treating

I don't know of a UK source for Verdicare.  A Google search for Verdicare resulted in a couple of site selling this product, both in the US.

As far as treating coins with suspected BD, I think the best first approach is to determine the nature of the deposits.  Are they soft and powdery, easy to dislodge with a toothpick?  If they are and they are of a light green to almost white with a ting of green, then they are likely BD.  At that point it is best to soak the coin in distilled water for several days to possibly even a week or two, with replacement of the water from time to time, especially if the water is turning green.  Also, with a toothpick, try removing more of the deposits.  A soft, worn toothbrush is also helpful.  After a period in the water, take the coin out, dry thoroughly and observe it over the course of the next few weeks.  If BD pops up again, I'd try the distilled water again before resorting to more advanced, but likely more destructive measures.

Verdicare comes in handy once the BD process has been neutralized.  It is good as a sealant, I've found, but I would not apply it on a coin with ongoing BD.

Hope this helps.