kevikens Posted October 9, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 9, 2022 I have some interest in music and got to wondering about musical instruments on Greek and Roman coinage. There does not seem to be much coinage picturing Ancient musical instruments, though we know, of course that they had them. I did find a few, such as the lyre, the carnyx, several kinds of pipes, trumpets, horns, organs, tambourines (but few actual drums). Below are two Roman denarii and a quinarius, each with the Celtic carnyx, with weirdly shaped heads and a late Greco Roman lyre.. One Imperial of Julia Domna has a hard to see tympanum (looks like a small circle) in her left hand. Perhaps some members might want to check their own coinage and see if they have any musical instruments on them. I think there is a Hadrian series with the sistrum, a kind of rattle on them. if you have such coins or if you know about Ancient music or their musical instruments please wtrite and post about them. Thanks 15 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanxi Posted October 9, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) Good idea for a thread. Let's see how many we get together. Drum Faustina Minor AR-Denar, Rome Obv.: FAVSTINA AVGVSTA. Draped bust right. Rev.: MATRI MAGNAE, Cybele seated left with branch and drum, behind her a lion. Ag, 3.34g, 18mm Ref.: RIC III 706, CRE 173 [S] Flute Apameia Asia Minor, Phrygia AE17, 133-48 BC Obv.: Turreted head of Artemis right, bow and quiver over shoulder Rev.: ΑΠΑΜΕΩΝ, Marsyas walking right on maeander pattern, playing flute; magistrate's name ΠANKΡ / ZHNO behind AE, 3.99g, 17mm Ref.: BMC Phrygia p. 85, 91 Kithara Augustus Asia Minor, Lykia, Masikytes AR Drachm, 28-19 BC Obv.: Λ - Y, Bare head right Rev.: Two Kitharas, Aphlaston left, Μ / A right Ag, 19.5mm, 3.48g Ref.: RPC 3309, SNG von Aulock 4351, Troxell, LL 150, 116 (same obv.- die) Ex Auctiones, Auction 12 (12.6.2003), Los 383 Pan pipes Gordianus III Macedonia, Pella AE 24 Obv.: IMP C M ANT * GORDIANVS, Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust r. Rev.: COL IVL A - VG – PELLA, Pan seated left on rock, right arm over head and holding pedum in left; syrinx (pan flute) in left field. AE, 24.4 mm, 9.52 g Ref.: SNG Copenhagen 286, Varbanov 3758 Sistrum (not so clear on the coin, but it is there) Faustina II Alexandria Billon-Tetradrachm Obv.: ΦAVCTINA CEBACTH, draped bust right Rev.: Isis Pharia standing, r., holding sail and sistrum, L I Z = year 17 of Antoninus Pius (AD 153/154). Billon, 11.75g, 22mm Ref.: Dattari 3250 Edited October 9, 2022 by shanxi 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Richardson Posted October 9, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 9, 2022 NERO: NERO (?) AS APOLLO WITH LYRE. 17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevikens Posted October 9, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) Great coins and photos of them. By the way, as I did some research on this I was surprised to discover a number of sites that said that neither Greeks nor Romans used drums in their military, either for marching armies or rowing ships. Apparently the Greeks liked to use those pipes or flutes (they had reeds in them) to keep the cadence for both matching and rowing. and that the Romans preferred calling the cadence verbally or by centurions rapping their shields with their vine sticks. I had expected to find (from watching too many Hollywoowd productions) that drums, big booming kettle drums would show up in painted images and on coins. No fiddles, either. Edited October 9, 2022 by kevikens New information 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor jdmKY Posted October 9, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 9, 2022 Brutus, 42 BC, lyre 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevikens Posted October 9, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) Great lyre. I also wanted to take a do-over on my own carnyz coins to get better images of the Gallic battle horn. Weird instrument it is with a kind of flapping dragon's mouth. It is still played in some parts of Europe and has been mentioned in the comic strip gallic warrior series. When you hear it you will hear a sound that could not be mistaken for someone else's battle horn. In case you cannot see it, the coin on the left (Sear 157) the carnyx is just above the shield and on the denarius on the right it is sticking out from just beneath the armor. On both coins the carnyx looks like a giraffe. Of course the bottom coin is lyre of Lycia, a half drachma. Edited October 9, 2022 by kevikens 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor jdmKY Posted October 9, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 9, 2022 Yes, I forgot all about the carnyx! Here’s L. Hostilius Saserna, 48 BC, carnyx on obverse behind portrait of Gallic woman 18 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Steve Posted October 9, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) Cool thread-idea, kevikens => here are a few neat examples from my sweet ol' collection ... D. Junius Brutus Albinus (below) AR (Silver) Denarius Struck 48 BC => The year Caesar defeats Pompey at Pharsalus and becomes sole dictator of Rome, calling himself "Imperator" Rome Mint Diameter: 18mm Weight: 3.60 grams Obverse: Head of young Mars right, wearing a crested helmet Reverse: BRVTI F ALBINVS, two gallic trumpets (carnyces) in saltire, oval shield above, round shield below One footnote — the word "Gallic" relates to Gaul, the Roman name for France, and therefore means "French", and not a Scottish or Irish language The word “carnyx” is derived from the Gaulish root, "carn-" or "cern-" meaning "antler" or "horn," and the same root of the name of the god, Cernunnos (Delmarre, 1987 pp. 106–107). This is the name the Romans gave to the instrument. The original Celtic name is unknown. Even under torture, Carnyx players would not reveal the Celtic name of the instrument to the Romans Reference: Postumia 11; Cr450/1a; Syd 941 Ex-stevex6 Sestus, Thrace AE bronze (below) 'after' 150 BC diameter: 16.2 mm Weight: 2.34 grams Obverse: Hermes head left Reverse: Lyre Reference: Weber 2465 Ex-stevex6 KINGS of BITHYNIA. Prousias II Kynegos. Æ21 (below) Nikomedia mint 182-149 BC Diameter: 21 mm Weight: 6.34 grams Obverse: Wreathed head of Dionysos right Reverse: Centaur advancing right, playing kithara; monogram below raised foreleg Reference: RG 26; HGC 7, 629 Other: 12h … Good VF, attractive dark green patina with light earthen highlights Ex-stevex6 … From the Dr. Lawrence D. Sporty Collection Edited October 9, 2022 by Steve 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted October 9, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2022 Another Lyre Augustus Ar. denarius, AVGVSTVS DIVI F, bare hd. r., rev., the Actian Apollo stg. l., holding plectrum and lyre, IMP X across fields, ACT in ex., Lugdunum mint (Sear, 1611; RIC 171a; Seaby 144). ACTIUM VICTORY RSC 1442 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniard Posted October 9, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2022 Tympanum. Phrygia, Eumeneia (near Civril, Turkey). Domitia, 81-96 AD. Bronze AE 15mm (2.47 gm). Obv.: ΔOMITIA CEBACTH, Draped bust right. Hair rolled in front and in que behind, Rev.: ΚΛ• ΤEΡEΝΤΥΛΛΑ ΑΡΧΙE /EΥΜE-ΝE-ΩΝ, Kybele enthroned to left, Patera in extended right hand, resting left forearm and hand on Tympanum (drum) at near side RPC II 1388. Rare. gVF. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Snible Posted October 9, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 9, 2022 Chelys: Ionia, Teos. 320-294 BC. 1.0g 9.5mm diobol Obv: Griffin standing right Rev: ΔΙΟΥΧΗ[Σ] (Dioches, magistrate); chelys (a musical instrument) The key feature of the chelys, the tortoise shell, is off the flan on this specimen. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientOne Posted October 9, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 9, 2022 Cymbals. Phrygia, Laodiceia ad Lycum, AE 20. Mask of Silenus. Struck under Antoninus Pius. Obv: ΛAOΔIKEΩN; draped bust of Dionysus right, with ivy-wreath. Rev: AIΛ ΔIONYCIOC; mask of Silenus/Bacchic mask wearing ivy wreath lying on cista mystica; cista entwined by serpent, head, r.; to l., pedum over which hangs pair of cymbals. Magistrate P. Ailios Dionysios Sabinianos. RPC IV.2, 2114 (temporary) Lyre. Lydia, Tripolis. AE15. Semi-autonomous. AD 14-37. Obv: TΡIΠOΛEITΩN, laureate head of Apollo right, with lyre. Rev: MENANΔΡOΣ ΦIΛO KAIΣAΡ TO Δ, four lines within wreath, Maeander pattern below. Magistrate Menandros. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotwheelsearl Posted October 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 10, 2022 A common lyre in uncommon condition 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevikens Posted October 10, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 Who is that on your coin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsyas Mike Posted October 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 10, 2022 Great topic. Here are some musical instruments via ancient countermarks: Pamphylia, Sillyon Æ 17 (c. 300-100 B.C.) Laureate head of Apollo right / ΣΕΛΥΝ[ΙΥΣ] Zeus seated left, holding eagle and scepter, thunderbolt in field left. SNG France 956; SNG Cop. 437 Countermark: chelys (lyre) in 7 x 5 mm rectangle. No. ref. (4.07 grams / 17 mm) eBay Aug. 2020 Countermark: Found only one countermarked Sillyon but not a chelys. This countermark similar to those found on Bithynia Æs for Prusias "cf. SNG von Aulock 6881 (for countermarks)." (CNG Web Shop via acsearch) Two "goats" from Aeolis - these harp countermarks are fairly common on goats, but I've never found any information on them: 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted October 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 10, 2022 Double flute (aulos) on a Apameia pseudo autonomous Lyre as major design element - Domitian, Sestos Similar reverse on a Hadrian imperial A small lyre on a Republican Although I like musical instruments, my collection needs more examples of different instruments. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted October 10, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 10, 2022 Nice idea for a thread! I've got a drum: Julia Domna, Roman Empire, denarius, 196–211 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IVLIA AVGVSTA, bust of Julia Domna, hair waved and coiled at back, draped, r. Rev: MATER DEVM, Cybele, turreted, draped, seated l. on throne, holding branch in extended r. hand and sceptre in l. hand, resting left arm on drum set on l. knee; to either side of throne, lion. 19mm, 3.19g. Ref: RIC IV Septimius Severus 564. A lyre: Caracalla, Roman Empire, denarius, 215 AD, Rome mint. Obv: ANTONINVS PIVS AVG GERM; laureate head of Caracalla r. Rev: P M TR P XVIII COS IIII P P; Apollo, naked except for cloak flying behind, standing l., holding branch in extended r. hand and with l. hand lyre set on altar. 21mm, 3.04g. Ref: RIC IV Caracalla 254. A carnyx: Roman Republic, moneyer: M. Furius L. f. Philus, AR denarius, 119 BC, Rome mint. Obv: M. FOVRI. L. F; head of Janus. Rev: ROMA; Roma standing l., holding sceptre, crowns trophy with carnyx and two shields; in exergue, PHL I. 19mm, 3.81g. Ref: RRC 281/1. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevikens Posted October 10, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 Nice selection of coins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevikens Posted October 10, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 Geeze, great coins being submitted but I am getting nervous about a thread where the lyres seem to be in the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limes Posted October 10, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 10, 2022 Nice concert going on here! I feel like playing some Vivaldi now. No new instrument, but this coin has not been posted yet here: 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Julius Posted October 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 10, 2022 Apollo and his Lyre Pan and his flutes 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevikens Posted October 10, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 I wonder how many of us have coins with musical instruments on them and don't know it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Richardson Posted October 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 10, 2022 I wonder how stylized the instruments are on these coins. I suppose the varieties of lyres abounded. But the lyre on most of these coins seems to have three or four strings. In book 6 of the Aeneid, Orpheus is said to play a lyre with seven strings. I wonder if these are different varieties, or if the die engraver simply felt that three or four strings was enough to get the idea across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted October 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 10, 2022 On my P. Clodius M.f. Turrinus the engraver decided to keep it very simple - 2 strings I think they just wanted to express an idea - but this is a pity as the instrument deserved a more accurate depiction - and they had the means and the artistic skills. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted October 10, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 10, 2022 Here are a few. Nothing new, but it's what I have: Carnyx: Lyres: (also with lyre-key) Sistrum: Drum 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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