Tetradogma

My one win, tempted to try and (delicately) remove those deposits. Some nice detail on this example, these tend to be very worn, but then again they are almost 2 and a half thousand years old!

Persia. Achaemenid Empire. Sardeis. Time of Darios II to Artaxerxes II 420-375 BC.
Siglos AR, 16 mm, 5,55 g

Persian king or hero, wearing kidaris and kandys, quiver over shoulder, in kneeling-running stance to right, holding dagger and strung bow / Incuse punch.

Carradice Type IVA; BMC Arabia 175-177; Klein 763; SNG Kayhan 1031.

Great job doing the lables but seems crazy to me to keep such high value and beautiful coins in plastic pages rather than trays or a cabinet?!

Is it not more likely someone used those names as a joke? As someone mentioned above Roma bidding at Nomos didn't use a name that linked to their company name

On 7/3/2022 at 1:38 PM, sand said:

I'm wondering, if the felt, is wool felt. I can't tell, from the photos.

I'm not an expert in this area. I'm not certain of any of this. My only knowledge, is based on looking at some threads, on CoinTalk and Forum Ancient Coins. My Abafil coin trays are lined with velvet, therefore I didn't research the wool felt, very much. I was mainly researching the effects of velvet.

In my limited reading, I have read, that a tray, that is lined with wool felt, is bad for coins, if the coins are sitting directly on the wool felt, because wool is scratchy. According to what I read, the friction between the wool felt, and the coins, can cause significant wear, on the coins, eventually, if the trays are moved horizontally many times, for example if the trays are slid in and out of a cabinet. I don't know, if the coarseness of the wool felt, makes a difference. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't.

Here is an interesting thread, on Forum Ancient Coins, in which the safety of coin trays is discussed.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=93219.0 
In the thread, one person said the following :
"The material used in Abafil trays appears to be velvet (to the best of my knowledge made of cotton), while some other types of trays are lined with felt (most appear to be wool). Felt will damage the coins, velvet will not. My coins are stored in Abafil trays, some for nearly fourteen years, and in examining them under magnification and comparing them to the original photos, I cannot detect any damage caused by this method of storage."
In the same thread, Andrew McCabe, a well known collector of ancient Roman Republic coins, said the following :
"I think the distinction to watch for is that sliding trays (drawers in a coin cabinet) will move the coins on their felt every single time the tray is pulled out, whereas lifted out trays in a box won't, unless the box itself is shook about. I've seen photos of coin surfaces being destroyed by wool felt, really bad damage, so its worth being aware of. However whatever is in abafil tray felt seems to do my coins no harm at all. And I doubt it would be possible to ever damage a worn bronze. FDC silver might be another matter. So, some caution needed but the nature of the trays felt and coins is important."

And I found this thread : https://www.cointalk.com/threads/question-is-there-a-difference-between-satin-and-velvet-coin-trays.297358/#post-2756640 

In which someone said the following : "For example, wool felt is notoriously abrasive, and is known to cause "cabinet wear" to coins over time. Velvet is softer, less abrasive and less risky than wool felt."

And this thread : https://www.cointalk.com/threads/two-storage-questions.268585/#post-2235811 

In which someone said the following : "I would advise keeping your coins away from the following ... Any cabinet with Wool-felt or any other non-synthetic insert. Several years of pulling your trays will scratch/wear the surface of the coin that is in contact with the insert."

Sorry, know this is an old post, was chatting with @Kaleun96 about Rob Davis cases then saw @sand interesting comments on cabinet wear, got me thinking, doing some googling.

It appears most velvet is a silk/viscose mix and usually about 18% silk, 82% viscose, and dyed. I am fairly confident most trays use this silk/viscose mix as pure silk velvet is insanely expensive. I have an Abafil tray and it is advertised as velvet but does not specify synthetic or natural. Presumably the former.

Either way I think synthetic silk velvet probably significantly reduces cabinet wear compared to the more abrasive wool felt. I do wonder about off-gassing from the viscose though as I don't believe it is an inert material, would be interested in anyones thoughts on this. Incidentally don't think anyone mentioned above that these coin trays are mahogany and untreated. I spoke to Rob about this as I was interested and he said he bought a huge stock of mahogany a few years ago as it is now an endangered wood and not commercially available. I think this makes Rob's cabinets really unique because mahogany is the timber traditionally used for long term storage of coins (the British Museum uses it) as it is one of the most "stable" timbers and doesn't off gas

13 minutes ago, El Cazador said:

Really nice, from Gorny?

Thanks and no, it was G. Hirsch Nachfolger (Germany)

A recent auction win Im very fond of, sorry the attribution is in German, but think you'll get the gist!

I've only recently started trying to pick up Hellentistic coins, thought they were always out of my price range and after a bit of watching and patience have found a few my budget can stretch to.

ASIA, SYRIA, SELEUCIS & PIERIA., SELEUKEIA,  Tetradrachm 100/99 BC
Kopf der Stadttyche r. mit Mauerkrone und Schleier.
Rs: Blitz auf Kissen, das auf einem geschmückten Stuhl liegt. Jahresangabe 10. Alles in Kranz. Cohen, DCA 697, 10. 14.87g, Schöne Tönung. Rs. min. Doppelschlag. fast vzAus alter bayerischer Sammlung. :

I posted a bronze Constans for sale in a FB group, someone sent me a link clearly showing it was a pressed fake. I contacted the seller, also LAC and the issue me a refund immediately with apologises. They're a good company in my opinion and will do they right thing if you can determine this is a fake. 

On 8/26/2023 at 6:06 PM, Hrefn said:

 

If the difference in quality is due to environmental deterioration, I would say the Brits are due thanks for absconding with the marbles they did take.   The upside of cultural imperialism, I suppose.  

Hmmm  not sure the Brits are due thanks, given that the Museum damaged them in the 1930s....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/nov/12/helenasmith

24 minutes ago, SimonW said:

I think that's exactly the case. In dubio pro reo. This seems to apply to the USA as well as Switzerland and most countries in between. No police report or other reliable evidence have been released. All that has been presented is hearsay. That's very thin ice, I'd say.

If there is a police report, why not share it? If there is none, why not? I believe that no auction house would or should expropriate a consignor or cancel a consignor's contract and expose themselves to legal action by the consignor simply because someone claims that the coins have been stolen, without providing any evidence. Otherwise, it could easily be abused.

But that's my point - presumably CNG wouldn't make that claim if they didn't have evidence. Doesn't necessarily mean its been reported to the police

To re-iterate, there is no way a head at  CNG would plubically state they had informed Leu about stolen coins if they weren't 100% certain of that fact. If incorrect they would be making themselves liable for defamation, a risk I just do not think they would take.

This just published, relating to the Gaza Hoard coins and Beale's admission of knowingly selling them:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-66594076?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA&fbclid=IwAR1snkpCIkHR0uXwDqkSoxbTakxdjk9S44fdxToojh7ROmkqGqPbReX4OcU

"While Higgs used a pseudonym to sell items on eBay, a portal on his Paypal account linked to his Twitter feed, where he used his real name"

What a dim wit, honestly. It's like he wanted to be caught.

Leu rapidly gaining the reputation of shadiest auction house. Saw the post on FB about the stolen coins being offered but no reference to which coins they were. Shockingly bad practice. Only personal (bad) experience I have had with them is suspicious, probably shill, bidding. Will be staying away in the future.

Virtually no one in Europe cares about slabs, very specific American fetish. Over-paying new collectors/investor funds seems to be peaking, interesting to see how long this hype runs for

Dammit, I can feel myself getting sucked in so many affordable and beautiful coins and this history is just fascinating

3 minutes ago, Cordoba said:

I collect a lot of Islamic coins, and here are a few types I find pretty interesting:

Turkoman Figural Bronzes - super cool designs, and fairly affordable

Artuqids of Mardin. Husam al-Din Timurtash, AD 1122-1152. Dirham
(Bronze, 29 mm, 12.21 g, 7 h), Mardin. Spengler & Sayles 26; Album 1826.3; ICV 1198 (this coin).

Zangids of Mosul. Sayf al-din Ghazi II, AD 1169-1180. Dirham
(Bronze, 32 mm, 15.56 g, 11 h), Mosul. Spengler & Sayles 61.1; Album 1861.2

Ottoman Gold - a lot more affordable than greek or roman gold, which is a plus

Ottoman Empire. Sulayman I The Magnificent, AD 1520. Sultani
(Gold, 21 mm, 3.36 g, 1 h), Misr
 

Lastly, Ghaznavid multiple dirhams are some of the largest medieval silver you can find. Article that goes more in depth here: http://augustuscoins.com/ed/Samanid/Samanid.html

Ghaznavid Empire. Mahmud of Ghazni, AD 998-1030. Multiple Dirham
(Silver, 47 mm, 10.57 g, 4 h), Andaraba. AH 389

Amazing, thank you, I had Sulayman I The Magnificent on my list, the danger is though the more I learn about this period of coins the more likely I am going to want to start collecting them - whats the saying, "ignorance is cheaper" or something?

Thanks for the info, will look them up, the Artuqids of Mardin bronze is very interesting - cheers

Sorry - this is a bit of a broad question, long story short a friend of mine recently helped with some building work, wouldn't take any money but I want to get something to say thank you.

He has an interest in early Islamic and Ottoman Empire history and I know there are some very beautiful, but not super super expensive, gold coins from that period but really have no idea where to start. (I collect Classical Greek)

I don't want to mention anything as he'll try and talk me out of it but no idea where to start, would like something that appeals to his historical funny bone

Any thoughts hugely appreciated, again, sorry this is quite a broad query!

Thanks

Thanks folks, making me feel better!

13 minutes ago, robinjojo said:

Nice coin!

I've seen worse effects after treatment.  Some of the patina is gone, but the exposed metal will tone down over time, as it appears to have begun. 

Be patient and keep the coin out for observation.  If you live in an area with high humidity, keep the coin in a dry location, possibly with a couple of silicon packs.

Do you have the coin's weight before and after?  I imagine the difference would be negligible. 

Oops, sorry, forgot to add info, pls see below.

I did also bake the coin but not for very long or very high temp, enough to remove any residual moisture, as I was worried about what I'd done. That didn't make any visual difference. 

I have it stored with silica gel packs in the case. I think the previous owner had added something/filled areas, but that's just a hunch. Will give it a re-weigh, what's your thinking with that??

Thanks

PONTOS, Amisos,

Æ

Time of Mithradates VI (Circa 85-65 BC)

7.9g, 23mm

Obv: Bust of Amazon right, wearing wolf skin headdress.

Rev: AMIΣOY./ Nike advancing right, holding palm frond and wreath

SNG BM Black Sea 1218-9; HGC 7, 244.

Have a feeling I'm going to get told off.....

So - this coin developed very aggressive bronze disease after a few months in my cabinet. It was surprising how rapid the growth was. Long story short I think my sodium sesquicarbonate/distilled water solution was out and it too aggressively stripped the patina. Good news the BD has ceased but the coin has suffered. I feel really bad about this, but it would have just continued and gotten worse if I hadn't done something.

Would be interested in peoples thoughts. Please don't scold me too much. I read somewhere that baking can blacken bronze but Im leaning towards best leaving as is...

Many thanks

So am I right in thinking this coin has probably been looted? I appreciate Turkish laws around antiquities is problematic, but is resultant of other nations plundering from them over the centuries and yes in its current state the law actively encourages a black market and illegal trade. I also noted the flood of tetradrachms of Tigranes II, similar to the on going high supply of owl tets from the 2018 hoard. Are people not bothered about the looting of others' heritage?

Im not getting on a high horse here, I collect Greek silver so am in the same camp

(As a side note, I've always found the legitimising of an English aristocrat provenance hilarious, it's just means it was stolen longer ago!)

Was highest bid at 600CHF and then got out bid in the last few seconds on this one, I think whoever got this for 650CHF got an absolute bargain! I would have bid a little more but had already reached my budget for the month (7 days in lol)

Congrats to the winner, thought I'd snagged Larissa this time, but no

Sorry to deviate from the interesting turn this conversation is having, but was wondering whether anyone had thoughts on the impact this legislation could have on AH/dealers/collectors - I've been reading (in annex II of regulation 2921/2079) about the requirement of, among other things, 7 photos per item exported, plus alot of onerous additional information that makes sending items between countries far more labour intensive than it currently is and the concern is that this either makes transferring between countries too difficult to be cost effective or it'll just drive up prices as AH/dealers have to factor in all that additional work in their premiums and service/handling fees, effectively forcing people to only buy nationally and not internationally

Would be interested in people's thoughts on this - could this kill the hobby or just be a hindrance and annoyance??

https://culturalpropertynews.org/is-the-eu-sleepwalking-into-an-art-market-nightmare/?fbclid=IwAR3iZvSHfV-dEVH-fx97pkjXaiQpipDldaN3fHIAtH6d6i-iS3VWBgFqLNw

8 hours ago, kirispupis said:

That's an interesting owl, but I agree with you that it went too high. Maybe if it had full crest it would be worth that. Perhaps the bidders had a good idea based on the style where it was from, and it was somewhere rare? For example, personally I would love to own a tet from Cyrus the Younger. He almost certainly used Athenian tets, since he employed Greek mercenaries. However, to date I haven't read anything solid that could be used to differentiate them.

Posting my own Sabakes owl (again) because it's one of my favorite coins. 🙂 It has a number of similarities to the one Roma just sold. They could be from the same hoard.

Egypt, Achaemenid Province. Sabakes, satrap, AR Tetradrachm. Circa 340-333 BCE
16.61g, 25mm, 9h.
Head of Athena to right, wearing earring, necklace, and crested Attic helmet decorated with three olive leaves over visor and a spiral palmette on the bowl / Owl standing to right with head facing, olive sprig with berry and crescent in upper left field; uncertain letters to left, ""Sabakes symbol"" and SWYK (in Aramaic) to right.
Van Alfen Type III, 24-34 var. (O11/R- [unlisted rev. die]); Nicolet-Pierre, Monnaies 18-26 (same obv. die); SNG Copenhagen 4 var. (no letters on left of rev.); BMC 265 var. (same).
Ex collection of Baron Dominique de Chambrier

 

Just looking at the provenance - isn't that the same Baron Dominique de Chambrier the Swiss aristocrat who was allegedly offered 100,000 CHF to say the Eid Mar was part of their collection?